Wife beating?
- Thread starter wsionynw
- Start date
Its not wife beating, its wife adjusting.
Oh, it's for real. I remember - was it the same twat? - on Syria TV talking about how thick a stick you were allowed to use for a good beating in islam. He had different gauges up. I think he settled on about a 1" diameter stick, seemed to think that was all right.
Gentlemen - and especially ladies - I give you: the ummah.
Gentlemen - and especially ladies - I give you: the ummah.
Silly Moslems...
They need to -learn- how to beat women?
Clearly, our superior Western culture is proven to be so again!
Now excuse me: My supper is late.
They need to -learn- how to beat women?
Clearly, our superior Western culture is proven to be so again!
Now excuse me: My supper is late.
LiveInFaith
Registered Senior Member
They regulated this verse:
الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّهُ وَاللاَّتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلاَ تَبْغُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلاً إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا {34}
Leaving obligation as a wife;
talk to her, if not work then separate bed, eventualy beat when all efforts apparently useless. For the beating not to make such excessive harm, it is required to regulate how to execute it. It is regulated as a means to give hard warning, avoiding injury.
الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّهُ وَاللاَّتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلاَ تَبْغُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلاً إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا {34}
Leaving obligation as a wife;
talk to her, if not work then separate bed, eventualy beat when all efforts apparently useless. For the beating not to make such excessive harm, it is required to regulate how to execute it. It is regulated as a means to give hard warning, avoiding injury.
This is an exercise in the nuances of the Arabic language:
The Arabic word used in verse 4:34 above is "idribuhunna", which is derived from "daraba" which means "beat". The thing with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word "daraba" is that they don't necessarily mean "hit". The word "idribuhunna" for instance, could very well mean to "leave" them. It is exactly like telling someone to "beat it" or "drop it" in English.
The word "daraba" in verse 14:24 "Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable? -- A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens". "daraba" here meant "give an example". If I say in Arabic "daraba laka mathal", it means "give you an example".
The word "darabtum", which is derived from the word "daraba" in verse 4:94, which mean to "go abroad" :
"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) In the cause of Allah, Investigate carefully...
Hence it need not mean "beat" as in hit, but beat as in beat it for some time. (they are all in the same chapter).
The more accurate translation would be:
(4:34) [...]as for those women whose animosity or ill-will you have reason to fear, then leave them alone in bed, and then separate; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek a way against them.
This is how this verse is interpreted by Islamic scholars.
This is corroborated by verses that forbid harsh treatment of wives:
"...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(2:231)"
"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (4:128)"
Those who believe that this verse refers to wife beating are those who stop thinking at a place where the verse meets their expectations.
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Such as Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall ("Faithfully represents the sense of the original") and Yusuf Ali ("it stands out above other translations as a highly readable rendering of the Qur'an into English. Copious notes are reflective of Yusuf Ali's vast learning. Nonetheless, some of his notes, particularly, on the Qur'anic eschatology and angelology smack of apologia and pseudo-rationalism", no less)?
http://www.quran.org.uk/articles/ieb_1st_annotated.htm
Hey, it's sam, what'd you expect?
Key phrase:
"This is how this verse is interpreted by Islamic scholars."
Sam's rationale is very similar to LG's, one must be "educated" in religion to be authoritative.
I'm guessing you don't take lessons in physics from your neighborhood high school dropout.
e.g.
Me: I have never read anything about evolution but my views on it are xyz (contrary to yours, who have read widely on subject)
You: Rubbish
Me: Q's rationale is very similar to LG's, one must be "educated" in evolution to be authoritative.
You: ?
No I'm saying there are other meanings of the same word in the same chapter, so you don't have to explore the etymology to know that there is more than one meaning.
Well, was that verysame meaning exigent in Mohammed's lifetime, or 100 years thereafter? How would it have been interpreted then? The authors I cited all interpreted it as "whack the stuffing (out of)". Do they not speak from authority?
(I hesitate to point out that you already explored the etymology.)
Well if you get a time machine,we'll go back and find out. The Quran says:
The rest is up to you.
So, are you using the argument of authority here?
Geez. You argued from authority just now, ya punk.
Anyway, I always speak from authority: a deep-throated, broad-chested authority, with a rumbling, bass inflection. I flex my deep muscles as I chop firewood, the sweat dappling my chest, glancing up to see who calls my attention, my blousy shirt hung over a log nearby that I severed with my sheer manliness.
And, they translated it. They don't seem to think 4:34 is an alliteration of "make like a tree - and leave!"
("huh huh, good one Vinnie!"
"let's get this jalopy running! It's axiomatic!")
So whither now?
Patent pending. Surely there must exist those literal time machines, known improbably as "books"?
And what if they don't heed? That's the broader issue.
Ah but I had to translate because none of you know the language, if you did it would be sufficient for me to simply indicate the other places where the word occurs with a different meaning.
You need not accept any authority if you don't choose to.
Language is merely abstract thought.
Education.
But really what does it say about people that they prefer the less salutary choices?