Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

Kittamaru said:
In some tellings of the story of the Garden of Eden, Eve did not tell Adam that the fruit was from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil - it was not until Adam ate the fruit that he knew where it came from.

I... don't really agree with that, in large part because God pretty much took both of them, pointed at the tree and its fruit, and said "you can eat everything else in the garden EXCEPT THIS"... so for Adam to NOT know what it looked like is pretty... well, silly to be honest.

There is the idea that Eve may have cut it or skinned it or otherwise "prepared" it... but that would make her deception even greater.

I dunno... I blame such passages more on the fact that the bible and its translations were controlled for so long by the church and the only people able to read/write at the time, which, in general, were men... so of course they wished to consolidate their power even further.
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Many try to reduce the story to one of simple disobedience and the eating of a fruit. It is a mistake to do so.

The prise is not fruit but knowledge.

A & E could have stayed as bright as bricks but instead were driven towards knowledge, as we all should be, all the time.

I see Eve as doing the right thing otherwise they would have stayed too stupid to even reproduce.

I see nothing wrong in A & E becoming as Gods, as God says they did and in effect, growing up.

We should all reject ignorant bliss. Man was not created to be stupid the way the old religions wanted to keep us for the ease of control that ignorance brings.

Regards
DL
 
I dunno... I think part of it was that, without that 'knowledge' mankind wouldn't have the thirsts for power, greed, etc.... might have been what God was trying to prevent?

Then again, I would ask... if that's the case, why have the damned tree there in the first place... but meh...
 
Kittamaru said:
I dunno... I think part of it was that, without that 'knowledge' mankind wouldn't have the thirsts for power, greed, etc.... might have been what God was trying to prevent?

Then again, I would ask... if that's the case, why have the damned tree there in the first place... but meh...
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Greed is illogical in Heaven. In Heaven you receive all things, you can't possibly have more than that. No greed.
 
kx000 said:
Greed is illogical in Heaven. In Heaven you receive all things, you can't possibly have more than that. No greed.
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Garden of Eden =/= Heaven though (though perhaps it would have been as close to it as one could get on Earth)
 
Kittamaru said:
I dunno... I think part of it was that, without that 'knowledge' mankind wouldn't have the thirsts for power, greed, etc.... might have been what God was trying to prevent?

Then again, I would ask... if that's the case, why have the damned tree there in the first place... but meh...
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No one has come up with a decent answer to your last.

As to power, greed etc., those are all required if we are to evolve and gain our fittest. Right?

Are those not required to trigger our competitive natures and even our cooperative natures?

Regards
DL
 
kx000 said:
Greed is illogical in Heaven. In Heaven you receive all things, you can't possibly have more than that. No greed.
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If all is received there, why did Satan rebel?

In fact, why did God reward Satan with dominion here and the power to deceive us all?

That is rather counter intuitive. Right?

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
If all is received there, why did Satan rebel?

In fact, why did God reward Satan with dominion here and the power to deceive us all?

That is rather counter intuitive. Right?

Regards
DL
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I thinks that satan is the name for hatred, and that came over the light. Knowledge knew that some people, even though graced with good nature they would rape, and murder. So he went against love, and passive and used no love to become the undertaker. He knew they could use the ambiguity of the angel able to abuse their own free will and become monsters.
 
kx000 said:
I thinks that satan is the name for hatred, and that came over the light. Knowledge knew that some people, even though graced with good nature they would rape, and murder. So he went against love, and passive and used no love to become the undertaker. He knew they could use the ambiguity of the angel able to abuse their own free will and become monsters.
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English would have been better.

Knowledge is not sentient and cannot know anything. It is what is known.

Regards
DL
 
river said:
I'm not sure what transgression that adam did ?
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Neither am I and no Christian has told us yet.

According to the quote in the O.P. Adam was not in transgression because he was not deceived. That deception seems to be a factor in a transgression. Adam was not deceived, he just disobeyed freely. Yet God still seemed to favor man as he gave him dominion over women.

Immoral that.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
English would have been better.

Knowledge is not sentient and cannot know anything. It is what is known.

Regards
DL
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How do you possibly know that?

If you live forever, and you have capacity on all things. You will inevitably learn everything.
 
Here's a better parable.

If you were a programmer and you decided that you wanted to create a sentient artificial intelligence system, you would program it to the best of your ability to be as sentient as possible.

When you've created it, it makes decisions which is what your intention was all along, to get it to think for itself, to rationalise to decide on it's own merits.

However the decisions it makes aren't necessarily the right one, while it might fail to choose the right path or course of action or hold true to the right moral beliefs that you yourself might have, you still love the fact that it is actually working beyond the programming by being sentient.

So in essence you wouldn't be angry at it, even if it make a dumb decision. (It's much like parents with their children... well ... should be.)
 
Stryder said:
Here's a better parable.

If you were a programmer and you decided that you wanted to create a sentient artificial intelligence system, you would program it to the best of your ability to be as sentient as possible.

When you've created it, it makes decisions which is what your intention was all along, to get it to think for itself, to rationalise to decide on it's own merits.

However the decisions it makes aren't necessarily the right one, while it might fail to choose the right path or course of action or hold true to the right moral beliefs that you yourself might have, you still love the fact that it is actually working beyond the programming by being sentient.

So in essence you wouldn't be angry at it, even if it make a dumb decision. (It's much like parents with their children... well ... should be.)
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Especially when you are already aware of all the decisions to be made before they are.

Regards
DL
 
kx000 said:
The knowledge one has is because of Knowledge who exist beyond the cosmos, who doth know All. Know is the father of Sentience, in us and beyond.
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Ya ya, beyond the cosmos.

Just got back from there yesterday.

Go away and take your woo with you.

Regards
DL
 
kx000 said:
All the great ones start off as woos. You have to believe big if you want to achieve big.
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Faith vs Reason

Faith is a way for you to quit using your "God given" power of Reason and Logic, so you will believe doctrines that moral men reject as immoral.

The God of the OT says...“Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can you reason with God when you throw away reason?

Religions, especially Christianity reply.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

This puts the rest of us in a position where reasoning with theist becomes impossible.

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Jonathan Swift

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. You cannot show our friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL
 
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