Why the West has lost the ideological war against Muslims?

S.A.M.

uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/headlines/why_the_west_has_lost_the_ideological_war_against_muslims

Came across an interesting article on the Eastern position.

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

-- Samuel P. Huntington

So the question that now arises is who is winning the battle of ideas? The answer is that the West long ago lost the ideological war against Islam. This due to the following reasons:

1). The West has spent the last two hundred years combating Islamic thoughts in the hope of dissuading Muslims from Islam. This campaign began with the orientalists who studied Islam and attacked its beliefs and rules.

2). In the past the West employed the services of modernists such as Rifa’a At-Tahtawi... to spear head their campaign of introducing Western culture under the guise of Islam. The impact of these reformists has not only been nullified but also reversed. Today’s modernists find themselves in precarious situation. They are despised by Muslims and are seen as instruments of the cultural imperialism undertaking the West’s bidding to defame Islam.

3). The biggest blow dealt by the West against the Islamic world came on March 3rd, 1924, when Britain... destroyed the Caliphate. Lord Curzon speaking in the House of Commons said, "The point at issue is that Turkey has been destroyed and shall never rise again, because we have destroyed her spiritual power: the Caliphate and Islam. “ Subsequently, the European powers curved up the Islamic lands between them establishing direct colonial rule over the Muslim people.

4). There is an inherent flaw in the ideology of secularism, which has led to its predictable rejection by the Muslim world. This is because secularism insists on restricting the role of Islam in society to personal worships only. Political decisions about running the society are left to human beings. This directly contradicts the doctrine of Muslims, which considers politics an indivisible part of Islam i.e. to Muslims Islam is politics. Communism a far deeper ideology than secularism also failed to convince the Muslim masses of materialism and man made laws.

5). The duplicity of the West in promoting Western values across the Muslim world has greatly undermined its credibility. Western ideas such as freedom, democracy, human rights were given a devastating blow not by Muslims, but by America... by its own handiwork had permanently damaged its standing in the Muslim world and had gravely weakened the very ideas that represent the cornerstone of Western civilisation. So much so, that many non-Muslims are questioning the validity of these ideas and the deceitful role played by their governments abroad.

Comments?

Disclaimer: Article is not written by me. Opinions expressed are those of the author. :rolleyes:
 
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Islam is doomed not because of western decadence or imperialism but because it is a deceiving tool of satan. Its not just the westerners who hate islam but many of the peoples on earth are finding out just what a bunch of blood thirsty killers islam produces. Not long now before they join forces and smash islam.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: The secular decadent west is doomed also. If that makes you feel any better.
 
Adstar said:
Islam is doomed not because of western decadence or imperialism but because it is a deceiving tool of satan. Its not just the westerners who hate islam but many of the peoples on earth are finding out just what a bunch of blood thirsty killers islam produces. Not long now before they join forces and smash islam.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: The secular decadent west is doomed also. If that makes you feel any better.

Thanks, but no, it doesn't.
 
sam,

So just how do we get rid of Islam? It is a terrifying thought that this oppressive and destructive mind virus might continue to spread.
 
Getting rid of Islam is hardly so easy. I do believe though, that it is the actions of the West which have enshrined, propagated and contributed to the rise of militant Islam. It's very simple. What would have been the position of Christians if a Muslim country had destroyed the Vatican? The destruction of the Caliphate by the British, of democratic Iran by the CIA in 1952, the institution of Taliban, Mujahideen in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the endorsement of the Wahabis in Saudi Arabia and Oman, the destruction of elected governments in the ME like that of Iran, Iraq, Syria (attempted), Egypt (Nasser, attempted), and now Lebanon. Left alone, all these countries would have been moderate democracies with no incentive for the militants.

As it is all we can do now is wait and ride it out.
 
Some historical background:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/15/blood_for_oil.shtml

Democracy is a dirty word in the ME.
After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Britain and France drew the boundaries of the new states in the Middle East with absolutely no input from the people of the region. All promises of Arab independence the British had made to various local leaders during the First World War were scrapped. At the 1919 peace conference, when the victorious powers sat down to divvy up the spoils, foremost in their minds was the need to keep the region divided and thereby easier to control.

American policy in this period was chiefly concerned that countries in the region did not come under the control of nationalist regimes. They had their first taste of that threat in Iran, when the democratically elected president Mohammed Mossadeq, with mass popular support, nationalized the British-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company. In a coup engineered by CIA operative Kermit Roosevelt, Mossadeq was toppled and replaced by the Shah. The Shah's power was underwritten by massive infusions of American aid and upheld by the notoriously savage secret police, Savak.

The Eisenhower Doctrine reflected Washington's anger over Nasser's turn to the Eastern Bloc for weapons. The U.S. refused to arm Egypt unless it agreed to join the U.S.-sponsored Baghdad Pact, a regional security agreement under U.S. auspices. The doctrine was quickly put to the test as a series of developments in the region seemed to augur a wave of nationalism. In Jordan, King Hussein was threatened by a newly elected pro-Nasser parliament. In 1958, Egypt and Syria joined together to form the United Arab Republic. In Lebanon, Muslim Arab nationalists led a struggle against the minority Christian regime led by Camille Chamoun. More importantly to the U.S., a nationalist military coup in Iraq that same year overthrew pro-British dictator Nuri Said. This event was perceived as a severe blow to U.S. prestige in the region and as a threat to American oil interests.

U.S. officials feared that the new Iraqi regime might reassert its historical claim on Kuwait, a tiny country created by British fiat in order to prevent any larger state from controlling what was then the biggest oil-producing area in the Gulf. A memorandum based on an emergency meeting between Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Nathan Twining, and CIA director Allen Dulles asserted that unless the United States intervened, "the U.S. would lose influence," its "bases" would be "threatened," and U.S. credibility would be "brought into question throughout the world."5 The U.S. was also concerned about the nationalist threat to what were very profitable oil concessions in Kuwait and Iraq.

Fearing that he was on the brink of losing power, Lebanon's Chamoun asked the U.S. for assistance under the Eisenhower Doctrine. With its eye on Iraq, the U.S. seized this opportunity and declared a nuclear alert, mobilized a massive strike force ready to intervene when called on, and invaded Lebanon with 14,000 marines. When the new Iraqi regime announced its commitment to "respect its obligations," the U.S. withdrew its forces. "Thus what followed the coup in Iraq and the landing of troops in Beirut was a new understanding of the rules of the Middle East game," writes Micah Sifry. "Political changes were possible as long as economic interests were safeguarded."
 
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samcdkey said:
Getting rid of Islam is hardly so easy. I do believe though, that it is the actions of the West which have enshrined, propagated and contributed to the rise of militant Islam. It's very simple. What would have been the position of Christians if a Muslim country had destroyed the Vatican? The destruction of the Caliphate by the British, of democratic Iran by the CIA in 1952, the institution of Taliban, Mujahideen in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the endorsement of the Wahabis in Saudi Arabia and Oman, the destruction of elected governments in the ME like that of Iran, Iraq, Syria (attempted), Egypt (Nasser, attempted), and now Lebanon. Left alone, all these countries would have been moderate democracies with no incentive for the militants.

As it is all we can do now is wait and ride it out.

Sam this entire stand point displays such a lack of historical perspective I don't know where to begin or even if I have the time and energy to address it. Islam has been militant since it was founded by mohammed. According to Hadith he himself participated in 19 campaigns. from that time on islam spread militarily through the christian lands of the middle east and northern africa into Spain, France, Italy (yes even Rome was attacked with the intention of capturing the vatican). The power of the caliphate finally spent itself at the walls of Vienna in the 17th century. After that France and Britain spent much time and energy attempting to prop up the "sickman of europe" against the growing power of Russia. Did you not get any of this with you in school?
 
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Ottoman Turkish: دولت عليه عثمانيه Devlet-i Âliye-i Osmâniyye; literally, "The Sublime Ottoman State"), also sometimes known in the West as the Turkish Empire, existed from 1299 to 1923. At the height of its power in the 16th and 17th centuries, its territory included Anatolia, the Middle East, parts of North Africa, and much of south-eastern Europe to the Caucasus. It comprised an area of about 5.6 million km²[1] (though if adjoining territories where the empire's sovereignty was recognised, dominated mainly by nomadic tribes, are included it controlled a much larger area). The empire interacted with both Eastern and Western cultures throughout its 624-year history.

The ancestors of the Ottoman Dynasty were part of the Turkic migrations from Asia, which began during the 10th century. The Kayı (or Kai) tribe of Oghuz Turks were one of the main groups taking part in this migration, and it was they who established what became the Ottoman Empire in western Anatolia.
 
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Sam,

It would seem that the young and educated love Western culture (as can be seen in any modern Middle Eastern city...Levis, Gap, MTV, Hip Hop...etc..etc...). Its the old, ignorant, and religous crazies that continual slam the West and its evil culture.
 
Inherited? They were related to the Arabs?

Anatolia (Asia Minor), the landmass that is now Turkey, had been a cradle to a wide variety of civilizations and kingdoms in antiquity. The Seljuk Turks (Selcuk Turkleri) were the first Turkish power to arrive in the 11th century as conquerors, who proceeded to gradually conquer the existing Byzantine Empire.

The Seljuqs (also Seldjuk, Seldjuq, Seljuk, sometimes also Seljuq Turks; in modern Turkish Selçuklular; in Persian سلجوقيان Saljūqiyān; in Arabic سلجوق Saljūq, or السلاجقة al-Salājiqa) were a dynasty that ruled parts of Central Asia and the Middle East from the 11th to 14th centuries. Today, they are remembered as great patrons of Persian culture, art, literature, and language and for setting up an empire known as "Great Seljuk" that stretched from Anatolia to Pakistan and was the target of the First Crusade.

Their Turkish successors, the Ottoman Empire (named after its first leader Osman Gazi), began as a small tribe of nomadic Turks who would come to dominate the region for 600 years.
 
They were muslims does the title of your thread refer only to arab muslims or muslims in general or just muslims of the middle east?
 
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The Byzantine Empire (Christians) were friendly with the Arabs.

The Turks came from Asia as conquerers and captured all Arabia.

The fact that they were Muslim and captured Muslim lands (and the Caliphate) should tell you that the religion was not relevant. They were imperialists. They established the Ottoman Empire which ruled over Arabia ( for 600 years) until the British defeated them and took over. The British were also imperialists.
 
crazy151drinker said:
Sam,

It would seem that the young and educated love Western culture (as can be seen in any modern Middle Eastern city...Levis, Gap, MTV, Hip Hop...etc..etc...). Its the old, ignorant, and religous crazies that continual slam the West and its evil culture.

So what has happened to the young and educated who are terrorists?

Why are they so angry?
 
The Ottoman Empire:
One of the most noteworthy attributes of Ottoman Turkish rule was Ottoman toleration of different religious beliefs. The Turks of the Ottoman Empire were Muslims, but they did not force their religions on others. Christians and Jews in the Empire prayed in their own churches or synagogues, taught their religion in their own schools and seminaries, and went about their business, sometimes amassing great fortunes. At that time, Ottoman toleration was unique.

The tradition of Turkish tolerance came from both religious belief and practicality.

Turks were Muslims and were tolerant of other religions because of that. From its beginnings Islam had accepted the existence of other monotheistic religions. Jews and Christians had lived in -lands ruled by Islam since the time of the prophet Muhammad.

The success of Ottoman tolerance can most easily be seen in the fact that large Christian and Jewish communities existed in the Ottoman lands until the end of the Empire. Then it was European intervention and European-style nationalism, not internal failure of the system, that destroyed the centuries-long peace between religions that had characterized the Ottoman system.

http://www.globaled.org/nyworld/materials/ottoman/turkish.html
 
No one has won yet, but I question your premise that the west is waging a war against Islam. This is how many Muslims would wish to frame the latest conflicts in predominately Muslim countries, but it is part of their ideology that assumes a war of culture. Christian fundies also think there is a culture war. This allows them to buy into the idea of Jihad, which strengthens cultural bonds that they feel are threatened by the inevitable changes of modernization. They think they are fighting to defend Islam. If this were true, what are 5-8 million Muslims doing in the USA? In fact, many Muslims love western culture and feel there is a place for secular institutions within Muslim society, for instance many young Iranians. Not all Muslims are in favor of Theocracy, which is not that far removed from Totalitarianism, Dictatorship and Fascism.
 
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