Why so much extra stuff?

[TheVisitor]

The god is dead. Long live the god. Seriously god, if you are listening: bite me.

Bite me, God....?
Not my first choice of ways to go guy.
Think about it.
Alligators, tigers, bears, sharks......
You could get your wish yet in this life.
But, God has already made plans for those aligned with rebels.
If you read the bible, the old testement descibes a scenario you might be interested in.
There is coming a resurection, and a judgement.
When both good and bad receive new bodies, those who've rejected God may end up in a state where they are eaten by "the worm that never dies".
In a body made to stand some time in the torments of hell, they eat you, your new body constantly attempts to regenerate itself.....
Skin worms are already in you by the way.
You take a person that dies in a clean room at a hospital, such as an operating room and even if sealed directly into an airtight coffin, in three days worms will begin to devour the rotting flesh.
You've seen this kind of thing recently of an episode of Stargate remember.
The bad guy put inside a sarcophagus with an animal that eats his flesh, only to have his woulds healed and the process repeated over and over.
Not my favorite way to go.
I believe that was "O'Neal's" words exactly.
Careful what you wish for.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Boo to you too, visitor. Are you still scared of the dark and the boogeyman? Come on, get a handle on your fear of being eaten over and over for eternity by an immortal worm.

 

[cole grey]

if they have no fear, then why, confess those sins, why not just say god will forgive me so fuck him, it's because they wish to appease this god, that they only do good deeds, not because it's the right thing to do.

No. Confession is a good psychological relief from self-hatred, while allowing for acknowledgement of wrongdoing, but it has been misunderstood and used as a tool for oppression by selfish wicked people and that fucked up a lot of people, and their view of religion. (responsibility and relief from guilt are hard things to balance, so it isn't quite that simple.)

my concept of peoples choices, is looking at from an athiestic point of view. which is to allow an imaginary thing to have control of you, in such a way that you fear it and wish to appease it, is immoral.
thus, anybody who does good purely because it's the right thing to do, is morally superior.

And you get to judge what people are feeling and why THEY do the things THEY do based on YOUR interpretation of religion - that is silly, you know.
That would be like me saying - you choose to be an atheist because you are afraid of losing control over your ideas, and you feel that you could not participate in a spiritual endeavor without losing your sense of self, and this shows that you are too weak to lead but must follow in any social situation and therefore do not trust yourself enough to allow for any doubt in your ideology and blahblahblah.
How do I know why YOU do what you do? I don't.


P.S. the vistor - I doubt that the worm that never dies is a worm, because worms die - think about it. It is probably sorrow or regret.

 

[audible]

No. Confession is a good psychological relief from self-hatred, while allowing for acknowledgement of wrongdoing, (responsibility and relief from guilt are hard things to balance, so it isn't quite that simple.)

but it does not make them morally better, just the opposite, as they are allowed to justify their wrongdoings as you so
nicely put it.

And you get to judge what people are feeling and why THEY do the things THEY do based on YOUR interpretation of religion

no. based on the general concensus, and study of the subject.
nobody in there right mind, argues a point, or hypothesis's without having some knowledge of it.

How do I know why YOU do what you do?

through education

I don't.

then you should do a bit of study, regarding atheism.

 

[cole grey]

but it does not make them morally better, just the opposite, as they are allowed to justify their wrongdoings as you so
nicely put it.

How does praying to God have any effect on the loss of property or human lives destroyed by sins? It doesn't. A person with a healthy sense of self however, can be compassionate enough to try to make amends for situations or not repeat them. A person who is full of self-hatred will have no concern for the well-being of others, and won't care about hurting people.
If a person thinks confession is going to make the social order function, and they can just leave all their problems with God and never do anything at all about them, i.e., that they don't have to function as human beings just because they have religion, they are stupid.
This is what you think people do when they confess but you are wrong - some do, many do not - if you cannot see that you are blind.

no. based on the general concensus, and study of the subject.
nobody in there right mind, argues a point, or hypothesis's without having some knowledge of it. through education then you should do a bit of study, regarding atheism.

bah. the general consensus of atheists about people they only know about through second-hand observation, or BAD religious experiences they had - actually 99% of atheists are the second type. They had abusive experiences of twisted versions of religion and now they think all versions are that version, and can't get over it, and therefore cannot see religion as anything better than what they experienced firsthand. Do you think that is fair of me to say? That comment on atheism is no less informed by specific cases of true events and is doing exactly what you are doing - generalizing until the statement becomes FALSE.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Boo to you too, visitor. Are you still scared of the dark and the boogeyman? Come on, get a handle on your fear of being eaten over and over for eternity by an immortal worm.

Immortal worms? Lol.....Has anybody actually figured out how many immortal critters are inhabiting heaven and hell?

 

[Provita]

maybe God just got bored and said "bleh! these humans keep praying 'give me money' , 'help me be good looking' , ' save me from this massive invasion from the barbarians' ... im going to make a million billion trillion other stars and worlds and rocks and dust and emptyness... even though u cant MAKE that i will still do it anyways (!)... and etc. etc...

or he coulda just done it so we could have made star wars... either/or

 

[superluminal]

Whooo boy. Another pointless digression from the simple question of the op. God (who of course clearly exists) made humans before the rest of the cosmos was created (contrary to some popular misreadings of something called "genesis"). After a short time it became obvious to God that his human creations were pretty dull-witted. He kept talking to them using obvious forms of communications such as dreams and whispered voices that cleverly seemed to come from within the heads of the listeners. People kept constantly getting his instructions wrong (every time God indicated that surfing was a good way to relax by saying "Surfing's nice" the people would go out and kill lambs or other humans). So God, realizing how dense his creations were (he never said he was "perfect". What he said was "I'm perplexed") created the cosmos as a learning tool for the slow. The arrangement of the stars and galaxies clearly spell out, in detail, his instructions for humans regarding the divine plan. To Gods immense dissapointment, the humans, in typical silly human fashion, connected the dots and came up with plows, dogs and maidens in distress. God of course then promptly vacated this abortive attempt at a universe and started a new one with sea urchins as the dominant lifeform. The sea urchins have, so far, interpreted all of Gods instructions flawlessly.

 

[TheVisitor]

The kingdom of heaven is in you.

"And if we become in spirit sons of God, Deity dwells in the man.
They said nothing is impossible to God.
God said nothing is impossible with you, if you'll believe.....
Not with God, but you. Deity's in man.
The very God that stood back there on the mythical platform of the eternities, and rolled worlds off of His hands, and created these things... gives you the privilege to be His son, and you're a part of Him.
And God dwells in mankind, and man himself is Deity.
There you are. It might choke you, but study over that a little while. See?
God dwells in man. And man becomes a son of God, not in himself, but the Holy Spirit that's in him is God.
The Creator lives in the creation.
Think of that. Then stand with an unwavering faith and ask what you will; it'll be done unto you. There He is. God."

 

[audible]

How does praying to God have any effect on the loss of property or human lives destroyed by sins? It doesn't.

to anybody, other then the religious, else why do the religious pray.

A person with a healthy sense of self however, can be compassionate enough to try to make amends for situations or not repeat them.

agreed, but religion is not needed in this instant, which brings us back to "an atheist only does good because he knows, it's the right thing to do."

A person who is full of self-hatred will have no concern for the well-being of others, and won't care about hurting people.

you mean the one's who confess because it's good psychological relief from self-hatred,

If a person thinks confession is going to make the social order function, and they can just leave all their problems with God and never do anything at all about them, i.e., that they don't have to function as human beings just because they have religion, they are stupid.

so in essence your saying, that the religious who confess do so out of self hatred, and will continue to sin, and be morally inept, but some do it because they believe it's good for the them, and they have nothing more to fear by committing sins.

bah. the general consensus

we all hypothesize, accept, infer, presuppose, surmise, theorize, posit, conclude, deduce, postulate, guess, speculate, presume, suppose, in our lives that why it's called a general concensus, it does not have to be your own opinion. we dont know everything, do we.
We only observe effects. We test hypotheses to determine if they fit our observations. Our knowledge is made up of tested hypotheses. So there are two parts to gaining knowledge: observing and hypothesizing.

 

[TheVisitor]

We only observe effects. We test hypotheses to determine if they fit our observations. Our knowledge is made up of tested hypotheses. So there are two parts to gaining knowledge: observing and hypothesizing. .

That is all the carnal mind can know.
But what is the mind....? not the brain, but the mind...?
Can you touch it, is it tangible....?

There is another mind available to believers.....its called the mind of Christ.
The carnal mind of man can't know it.
"Unless a man is borned again, he will never see the Kingdom of God."
See there means to "understand".

Paul explained this here.
I Corinthians 2:9-16 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned. But he that is Spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."


Jesus explained it here.
Matthew 13:13-16, "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing, see not; and hearing, they hear not; neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

John 8:42-44, "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God: neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My Word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

They asked Him why He spoke to the multitudes in parables and He said;
"Because it's given to you... (his disciples)... to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is not given. (The mysteries)

Here's the mystery: A "mystery" is a previously hidden truth, now Divinely revealed, but which is a supernatural element still remains despite the revelation."

 

[Godless]

So why did "God" make so much extra space? What's the point, what is it there for? Would we be any less "awed" if there was only one galaxy? Is there any good reason why a "God" would do it, or is he so frivoulous as to do it "just because"?

Simple, god doesn't exist.

Nature created all that exists, without some "supernatural" entity as first cause. You create a paradox, by creating a supernatural entity to explain your lack of knowledge of existence and everything that we observe to exist, hence since you lack the knowledge how it all became to be, you create "god" to explain the unexplainable.

Thus your paradox, is to explain "what is god" and how could it create it'self, and the existence of universe out of nothing?

Haven't got the answers do you? Because those questions are unanaswearble, you play the card "god did it" without first explaining what the hell is god.

Godless

 

[cole grey]

Simple, god doesn't exist.
Nature created all that exists, without some "supernatural" entity as first cause.

What is nature? Is it anything at all? Or is that meaningless, like saying everything that is, is.

 

[superluminal]

Nature is the collective name for the fundamental forces and particles that make up the universe, and their nearly infinite ways of combining according to the fundamental laws of physics as we currently understand them.

 

[cole grey]

to anybody, other then the religious, else why do the religious pray.

one thing at atime, we are talking about confession, and most people don't think confessing their sins makes up for what they have done. That is between them and God and deals with things on a metaphysical level and has no effect on the physical consequences. And don't say it allows them to feel better and do it again because people do wrong things again and again regardless.

agreed, but religion is not needed in this instant, which brings us back to "an atheist only does good because he knows, it's the right thing to do."

There is no moral high ground, so you are standing on air. This is obviously untrue, because many many people's reasoning for not doing "bad" things is the unacceptability to society and the pressures laws and social mores put on them. Atheists don't do what's right because they think it is right, any more than religious people do - this is fact. Some people do what is right when they can get away with doing wrong, others don't, religious and non-religious aren't the difference. Religion just makes you consider more things as unacceptable behavior - although some ideas of religion also make unacceptable things acceptable in their eyes, which is a tragedy.

we all hypothesize, accept, infer, presuppose, surmise, theorize, posit, conclude, deduce, postulate, guess, speculate, presume, suppose, in our lives that why it's called a general concensus, it does not have to be your own opinion. we dont know everything, do we.

"general consensus" is not the phrase for what YOU think, but what people as a vast majority think, and there isn't one when it comes to religion, or politics, or philosophy.

 

[cole grey]

Nature is the collective name for the fundamental forces and particles that make up the universe, and their nearly infinite ways of combining according to the fundamental laws of physics as we currently understand them.

so "the fundamental forces and particles that make up the universe, and their nearly infinite ways of combining according to the fundamental laws of physics as we currently understand them" created "the fundamental forces and particles that make up the universe, and their nearly infinite ways of combining according to the fundamental laws of physics as we currently understand them."
That isn't very informative.
What must be said is, "nothing created this, it just is" which is a perfectly acceptable description of events - but don't pretend it has any value. At least, "god did it," "but what is God", "God is X", "blahblahblah" is trying for something.
Sometimes the atheist is like a child who thinks they are too old to play kids games - but it doesn't make them any older or capable of being adults, and it does show that they think they are something they are not.

 

[usp8riot]

God is one. What everything is combined, God is. A total of all components/units of the universe summed up as one complete cohesive unit=God. God=is,always,was. Even if there was nothing before, that had to be something even if it was just empty space, there had to be some force that created this=God. God is the infinite. In this 4d realm of our universe taking place in a dynamic, ever-expanding space, it is like a globe which is infinitely smaller and infinitely larger. From the end of the universe to the smallest particle we know, etc. God is present, past, and future. He is the verge of infinity. That which we haven't seen. As we expand to find the end of the universe or the smallest particle, we never will because God is long ahead. There is no way to catch up with God. He has, is, and was. He is the 0, the starting point. Our universe is as infinite numbers, as negative and positive numbers. Ever expanding in all directions, both inward and outward. He is the starting point, and the verge.
Nature is a product of God.

 

[superluminal]

so "the fundamental forces and particles that make up the universe, and their nearly infinite ways of combining according to the fundamental laws of physics as we currently understand them" created "the fundamental forces and particles that make up the universe, and their nearly infinite ways of combining according to the fundamental laws of physics as we currently understand them."
That isn't very informative.
What must be said is, "nothing created this, it just is" which is a perfectly acceptable description of events - but don't pretend it has any value. At least, "god did it," "but what is God", "God is X", "blahblahblah" is trying for something.
Sometimes the atheist is like a child who thinks they are too old to play kids games - but it doesn't make them any older or capable of being adults, and it does show that they think they are something they are not.

You read an awfully lot into a simple statement. As an atheist, I posit no theories regarding the "creation" of the universe without at least some solid evidence for it. "god" is completely worthless as a theory or even a shot at "trying for something". All we know is that at some point the universe was in a dense hot state and the metric for space "expanded". Maybe it has eternally done this, cycling between expansion and collapse. Maybe the universe is one of a sequence of universes in a larger "metaverse". Either of these theories is infinitely better than the god theory because they at least make some attempt as a physical explanation.

 

[Michael]

So why did "God" make so much extra space? What's the point, what is it there for?

Perhaps the simplest answer is the best. There is no God.

 

[TheVisitor]

Thus your paradox, is to explain "what is god" and how could it create it'self, and the existence of universe out of nothing?

Haven't got the answers do you? Because those questions are unanaswearble, you play the card "god did it" without first explaining what the hell is god.

You ask a question only to make a statement that you know the answer.
Sounds like your mind is closed to the real answer.
Its not unanswerable, its simple...