Why is there so little intertheist discussion?

Rav said:
I didn't mention anything about 'rights'. I was simply highlighting the fact that you don't have a solid platform from which to cast judgments about the beliefs of others.

When I engage theists in debate about the truth of their propositions concerning intangibilities, I am not declaring that they are absolutely wrong beyond any doubt whatsoever. By main beef is with declarations of certainty in the absence of reliable evidence, especially when they are in direct conflict with other declarations of certainty. So although from your clearly biased perspective you probably see me as yourself translated to the other end of the spectrum (in regard to the certainty you feel concerning the truth of your own propositions about intangibilities) I'm not actually your counterpart at all. I am instead someone who lacks the same degree of certainty that you have. So any appeal to the fact that there are others who are equally certain of the truth of their own beliefs (which are in conflict with yours) to support the idea that it is therefore perfectly fine for people to go around declaring the absolute truth of such mutually exclusive propositions to others (without reliable evidence), really doesn't seem legitimate to me at all.
Click to expand...

I'm in essentially the same situation as yourself in this regard.

I have been trying to figure out how theists are perceiving issues of disagreement. The only conclusion I could arrive at so far is that they seem to practice a simplistic black-and-white ontology and epistemology. They seem to have little or no idea that there are perspectives.

Apparently, not all cultures have the notion of "point of view" to begin with, but instead people in those cultures talk as if everything they say is the objective truth (although they don't have the distinction objective:subjective either).
Theists seem to be like that too; except that they deem their own perspective to be objective, true, and any other as subjective, false.


(See: The Cambridge Handbook of Thinking and Reasoning (Holyoak, Morrison, ed. 2005): Part VI: Paradigms of cultural thought. Thinking about people: Theory of mind.)
 
Rav said:
Once again you are trying to reduce me to nothing more than a stance on the existence of God, conveniently ignoring my previous elaboration on this topic in this very thread. In other words, according to you I'm not who I say I am. I'm who you say I am. That's a perfect way to go through your entire life not understanding the first thing about anyone other than yourself.
Click to expand...

Yes ...
Around theists, I often feel like I don't exist.
It is a profoundly depersonalizing experience.
 
@Signal --

And by depersonalizing(or demonizing, if you prefer) you they give themselves an excuse to disregard anything and everything you say without even considering it. It's a very common, and very human, tactic among theists.
 
Don't assume too much friendliness with me, Arioch. ;)
I can be very critical to both sides, the theists and the atheists.
 
Arioch said:
@Adstar --

Why is uncertainty such a bad thing? It's certainly a hell of a lot better than the arrogance that comes from certainty(and ignorance).
Click to expand...

Certainty of the future I can assure will make you quiver.
 
@Signal --

I expect nothing less from anyone. In fact I'm often quite demanding of critical inquiry and skeptical thought on my beliefs and opinions, the more and more thorough it is the better. How else am I to improve on them. To me friendliness is being willing to say "you're wrong and here's why..." After all, a friend wouldn't want to leave a friend in the grips of an obvious delusion would they?
 
Arioch said:
@Signal --

I expect nothing less from anyone. In fact I'm often quite demanding of critical inquiry and skeptical thought on my beliefs and opinions, the more and more thorough it is the better. How else am I to improve on them. To me friendliness is being willing to say "you're wrong and here's why..." After all, a friend wouldn't want to leave a friend in the grips of an obvious delusion would they?
Click to expand...

Im interested to hear your system of belief. Imo, I would label you as an open-minded atheist. Yeah? To me that is very good place to be in this day of age.
 
@Knowledge --

Of course I'm open minded, if I weren't I never would have been able to make the transition from a christian fundie to an atheist in the first place. I'm always open to new ideas, which is what it means to be open minded, however I'm skeptical in that I expect people to provide evidence to support their contentions.
 
Arioch said:
@Knowledge --

Of course I'm open minded, if I weren't I never would have been able to make the transition from a christian fundie to an atheist in the first place. I'm always open to new ideas, which is what it means to be open minded, however I'm skeptical in that I expect people to provide evidence to support their contentions.
Click to expand...

The evidence you look for I can not give you, nor can any man. What do you want? A picture of me and God playing golf? That will not happen, you must understand why, or at least an idea -insert quote and smart ass response you dwydr-. You need not worship God as Christians do, but I ask you to keep faith in him, at least the possibility.

However, familiarize yourself with the Book of Revelation as I am, the evidence for this is out there.
 
Knowledge91 said:
That will not happen, you must understand why
Click to expand...
In other words "Take your word for it". :rolleyes:

However, familiarize yourself with the Book of Revelation as I am, the evidence for this is out there.
Click to expand...
You mean the book of Revelations that's in the bible? The bible that you have persistently declared to be bullshit?
Slightly inconsistent here, no?
 
@Knowledge --

The evidence you look for I can not give you, nor can any man.
Click to expand...

If the assertion can be accepted without any evidence then it can be rejected without any evidence as well. If no one can give me any evidence to support their beliefs in god then they can't tell me that they know the truth.

What do you want? A picture of me and God playing golf?
Click to expand...

That might be nice, though a picture is easily faked. I was thinking something along the lines of god giving a press conference wherein he explains some of his fuckups(like my eyes, I didn't order the extra-light-sensitive models, I ordered the regular, backwards and upside down models). Failing that, he could at least demonstrate his power in a manner we could actually detect. It wouldn't be that hard, and I don't think that it's too much to ask considering there's so much riding on this.

If none of that can be achieved(which would be pretty pathetic for a deity) then perhaps a holy book which isn't full of logical fallacies, internal inconsistencies, and only concerns a local area(perhaps addressing worldwide concerns).

You need not worship God as Christians do, but I ask you to keep faith in him, at least the possibility.
Click to expand...

There is, of course, a possibility that a creator exists, though I rate that probability at being extremely small. However not all possible gods can exist. Some are self-refuting such as the whole "god is light" malarky we went through not so long ago. Others are logically impossible, such as omnipotent gods. Still more are impossible due to mutually incompatible traits, such as those who are omnipotent and omniscient. Finally we find those that can't exist because they are mutually exclusive with the world we observe around us, a perfect and good god for example.

Is there a possibility that there is a god? Yes, however unlikely it is. Have any of the various religions or spiritual practices gotten it down yet? I can categorically state that they haven't as of yet.

However, familiarize yourself with the Book of Revelation as I am, the evidence for this is out there.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm very familiar with the book of Revelations. Whatever drugs the author was on are apparently some good shit, I kind of want some. I've hallucinated before, both on drugs and due to NDEs, but I've never tripped face like that before.
 
There is multiple forms of evidence of that Revelation is well underway. Im not the most literate man, Im sorry about that. I failed all the way through H.S. and I am on the verge of dropping out of my CC. I am sorry I can not put forth my knowledge better.
 
Knowledge91 said:
There is multiple forms of evidence of that Revelation is well underway.
Click to expand...
As there has been throughout history.
There's NOTHING special about the present in that regard.

Not living in Europe (I assume) you won't be familiar with the numerous churches and cathedrals we have here: a large number of which were "completed" in extreme haste (i.e. they didn't bother completing them as planned, they simply placed a final wall to enclose whatever had been built by that particular time) all because some nutter was convinced he had a personal line to god and persuaded everyone else that the end of the world was due, so they "finished" building the churches/ cathedrals as best they could in the time left so that god wouldn't see half-built temples to him.
Thanks to Joachim de Fiore Europe is littered with half-finished churches and cathedrals.
He was sure the world was going to come to an end in 1260.
Guess what... he was wrong. As were all the other eschatologists, before and since.
 
@Knowledge --

I don't judge people based on how far they made it through school. I dropped out of high school myself and I'm not finished with college yet. However I have an insatiable thirst for knowledge and learning and am willing to throw even my most cherished beliefs into the fire if I find them to be wrong. That is the key to knowledge, not internal revelation which can only tell you about yourself.
 
Rav said:
Once again you are trying to reduce me to nothing more than a stance on the existence of God, conveniently ignoring my previous elaboration on this topic in this very thread. In other words, according to you I'm not who I say I am. I'm who you say I am. That's a perfect way to go through your entire life not understanding the first thing about anyone other than yourself.
Click to expand...

But that’s it .. you have not pressed me.

All you can stand for is uncertainty. Everything is uncertain, that’s your reply to anyone who is certain. People like you find some kind of security in uncertainty. Oh i will be safe if i find a way to deny everything, that way i will never commit and make a mistake...


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Arioch said:
@Adstar --

Why is uncertainty such a bad thing? It's certainly a hell of a lot better than the arrogance that comes from certainty(and ignorance).
Click to expand...

One person’s confidence will often be projected as arrogance by someone who disagrees with what they are confident about. It's the old, Hey i don't like what they guy believes so i better throw some mud and start attacking his character. Can’t play the ball, lets play the man. I get it all the time in here and it's pathetic.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top