does'nt that mean sinless, past and future sins gone=sinless.adstar said:
you may have good thoughts, but a lot of xians dont.
Why is the Christian god not fair?
- Thread starter Hermann
- Start date
you may have good thoughts, but a lot of xians dont.
Well they will not be remembered and held against us upon judgement day.
Romans 4
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."
That does not mean we "followers of Jesus" claim to live sinless lives. That would be a lie and a sin in it'self. lol
1 John 1
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Millions of Christians want Jesus as their savoir but few want to accept him as their Lord. such is life.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
Hermann
Registered Senior Member
lostmind,
There is nothing wrong to live your way as long as this kind of life is satisfying for you.
Adstar,
You allowed an exception for people who never heard about Christ. But what is with people who know a lot about Christ and came to the conclusion, that the Christ story cannot be true – will your god forgive them?
Why had Christ to suffer pain at all in order to eliminate our sins, if balancing is not required?
spidergoat,
This is another valid point and raises the question again, whether there is a judgment at all. If there is no judgement, no salvation is required and also Christ is not needed.
There is nothing wrong to live your way as long as this kind of life is satisfying for you.
Adstar,
You allowed an exception for people who never heard about Christ. But what is with people who know a lot about Christ and came to the conclusion, that the Christ story cannot be true – will your god forgive them?
Why had Christ to suffer pain at all in order to eliminate our sins, if balancing is not required?
spidergoat,
This is another valid point and raises the question again, whether there is a judgment at all. If there is no judgement, no salvation is required and also Christ is not needed.
That’s the thing. A lot of people have heard of jesus but they have never really got the Message Of Jesus. There are a lot of people who get all there impressions of Jesus second hand from people or organizations who really do not follow Jesus in truth at all.
So with that in mind. If someone has read the story of Jesus, has read His teachings and has understood who Jesus is. If that person then disbelieves and does not accept Jesus after coming to know the true Jesus, then no, i do not believe my God will forgive them for rejecting The Messiah.
Once again His sacrifice was to Eliminate sin in all those who believe in Him from the time He was executed until the time He returns.
Now i do not really understand why blood sacrifice is necessary for the elimination of sin. Before the time of Jesus the High Priest would regularly sacrifice a red bull in the temple in Jerusalem as a sin atonement for the sins of the Jewish people. Jesus brought that to an end. For he was the last blood sacrifice for sin, He allowed Himself to be executed as a perfect sinless and final sacrifice for sins.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Hermann
Registered Senior Member
Adstar,
In former time I was a strong believer in Christ without doubting and questioning. But later, after I had seen more of the world and other religions, I got doubts, whether this is the truth. Especially in the Eastern religions I have seen, that they offer guidance without forcing people to believe anything. Why should I get forced to believe something and to follow blindly? History has often shown, that this is a very dangerous way (as a German I have especially the German history in mind). Finally I became aware, that the Christ story could well be just a brilliant PR idea, where even today’s advertising companies could not cope with. By all this I felt the need to formulate my own world view (weltanschauung) with components of Eastern religions but also considering the latest scientific knowledge. The result, where I am very happy with, is shown on my website.
In former time I was a strong believer in Christ without doubting and questioning. But later, after I had seen more of the world and other religions, I got doubts, whether this is the truth. Especially in the Eastern religions I have seen, that they offer guidance without forcing people to believe anything. Why should I get forced to believe something and to follow blindly? History has often shown, that this is a very dangerous way (as a German I have especially the German history in mind). Finally I became aware, that the Christ story could well be just a brilliant PR idea, where even today’s advertising companies could not cope with. By all this I felt the need to formulate my own world view (weltanschauung) with components of Eastern religions but also considering the latest scientific knowledge. The result, where I am very happy with, is shown on my website.
Hermann
Registered Senior Member
Adstar,
In general, people get told that they are sinning and that they will be lost unless they believe in Christ in order to get salvation. This is duress, blackmail and selling of indulgences – all attributes which are really not godlike. Therefore I have asked the question “Why is the Christian god not fair?”
In general, people get told that they are sinning and that they will be lost unless they believe in Christ in order to get salvation. This is duress, blackmail and selling of indulgences – all attributes which are really not godlike. Therefore I have asked the question “Why is the Christian god not fair?”
Adstar: What force? Am i forcing you to believe anything? If anyone was forcing you to believe in Jesus why then have you been able to make up your own religion?
There is no force with Jesus you either believe or you don't no force can work.
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M*W: Why, then, do the christians on this forum preach, preach, preach to us about Jesus, condemn us to hell, and rattle on like a worn out record? Will you people ever find peace?
There is no force with Jesus you either believe or you don't no force can work.
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M*W: Why, then, do the christians on this forum preach, preach, preach to us about Jesus, condemn us to hell, and rattle on like a worn out record? Will you people ever find peace?
"M*W: Why, then, do the christians on this forum preach, preach, preach to us about Jesus, condemn us to hell, and rattle on like a worn out record? Will you people ever find peace?"
If you had something you were proud about and you wanted people to know about, you would tell everyone also. just by you reading the forum, it shows your intrest in the subject. If people stopped talking about things that annoyed other people, there wouldn't be any purpose for this forum. I think this is very constructive because the people hear are very sharp and I've learned alot from all of U.
If you had something you were proud about and you wanted people to know about, you would tell everyone also. just by you reading the forum, it shows your intrest in the subject. If people stopped talking about things that annoyed other people, there wouldn't be any purpose for this forum. I think this is very constructive because the people hear are very sharp and I've learned alot from all of U.
lostmind: "M*W: Why, then, do the christians on this forum preach, preach, preach to us about Jesus, condemn us to hell, and rattle on like a worn out record? Will you people ever find peace?"
If you had something you were proud about and you wanted people to know about, you would tell everyone also. just by you reading the forum, it shows your intrest in the subject. If people stopped talking about things that annoyed other people, there wouldn't be any purpose for this forum. I think this is very constructive because the people hear are very sharp and I've learned alot from all of U.
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M*W: I wasn't directing this statement to you, lostmind, because from what I've read thus far, you have not been one of those christians I refer to.
Yes, I am very interested in learning all I can about christianity, even though I don't believe any part of it. I've always studied 'people' and their beliefs. The only difference is now I am looking at religion from the outside -- and not the inside. That makes a world of difference. When you are ingulfed in something, you can't see it objectively. I've learned a lot on sciforums -- not from the christians -- but from the atheists. Had I been a member of this forum 25 years ago, I would have been defending the christian faith, and at that time, I am certain the atheists wouldn't have been able to sway me to their side.
If you had something you were proud about and you wanted people to know about, you would tell everyone also. just by you reading the forum, it shows your intrest in the subject. If people stopped talking about things that annoyed other people, there wouldn't be any purpose for this forum. I think this is very constructive because the people hear are very sharp and I've learned alot from all of U.
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M*W: I wasn't directing this statement to you, lostmind, because from what I've read thus far, you have not been one of those christians I refer to.
Yes, I am very interested in learning all I can about christianity, even though I don't believe any part of it. I've always studied 'people' and their beliefs. The only difference is now I am looking at religion from the outside -- and not the inside. That makes a world of difference. When you are ingulfed in something, you can't see it objectively. I've learned a lot on sciforums -- not from the christians -- but from the atheists. Had I been a member of this forum 25 years ago, I would have been defending the christian faith, and at that time, I am certain the atheists wouldn't have been able to sway me to their side.
Hermann said:
How is it duress telling someone what sin is ?
How is telling someone that there is only one way to eternity with God. Duress or blackmail? One either believes it or one does not believe it and if One does not believe how can it intimidate them?
If someone tells me that the only way for me to ride a slay is to be friends with santa then i will not feel duress, i will just roll my eyes
have a bit of a giggle and walk away with a smile on my face . And i do not know where selling of indulgences come into it at all? Maybe you should talk to a catholic to find out what selling of indulgences is because it has nothing to do with Christianity.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Medicine Woman said:
"preach, preach, preach "
We are here to deliver the message to all that will hear and believe. We do not know who will believe before they die so we tell all even those who mock us every day.
"Condemn us to hell"
I don't think i have ever condemned anyone to hell. Even if i did, my words would have no power because condemning to Hell is Gods decision. I could say that i am fearful that someone will go to hell but that is different from telling someone that they are going to hell.
"Will you people ever find peace?"
I found peace through Jesus years ago. Before i accepted Jesus i was a driven individual never at peace or content no matter what i achieved or did. I doubt i would still be alive today if not for the peace i have received from the knowledge of Jesus.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar: "preach, preach, preach "
We are here to deliver the message to all that will hear and believe. We do not know who will believe before they die so we tell all even those who mock us every day.
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M*W: So, the reason you joined sciforums was just so you could 'deliver the message' of christianity to us? We already know what christianity is about and, frankly, the atheists, agnostics, and other religious and non-religious folks don't want to hear anything about christianity. It would be mighty hard to find someone who has never heard about christianity these days. Besides, trying to sell christianity to us IS preaching, and that is against the forum rules. If you run into people who are not christians, that doesn't mean that they've never heard about it. That means we already know about christinity, but we don't accept it as our truth.
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adstar: "Condemn us to hell"
I don't think i have ever condemned anyone to hell. Even if i did, my words would have no power because condemning to Hell is Gods decision. I could say that i am fearful that someone will go to hell but that is different from telling someone that they are going to hell.
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M*W: Go back and reread some of your own posts.
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adstar: "Will you people ever find peace?"
I found peace through Jesus years ago. Before i accepted Jesus i was a driven individual never at peace or content no matter what i achieved or did. I doubt i would still be alive today if not for the peace i have received from the knowledge of Jesus.
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M*W: Then what are your plans when christianity is no more? Will you still have peace when the truth about Jesus and christianity is revealed?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/QUOTE]
We are here to deliver the message to all that will hear and believe. We do not know who will believe before they die so we tell all even those who mock us every day.
*************
M*W: So, the reason you joined sciforums was just so you could 'deliver the message' of christianity to us? We already know what christianity is about and, frankly, the atheists, agnostics, and other religious and non-religious folks don't want to hear anything about christianity. It would be mighty hard to find someone who has never heard about christianity these days. Besides, trying to sell christianity to us IS preaching, and that is against the forum rules. If you run into people who are not christians, that doesn't mean that they've never heard about it. That means we already know about christinity, but we don't accept it as our truth.
*************
adstar: "Condemn us to hell"
I don't think i have ever condemned anyone to hell. Even if i did, my words would have no power because condemning to Hell is Gods decision. I could say that i am fearful that someone will go to hell but that is different from telling someone that they are going to hell.
*************
M*W: Go back and reread some of your own posts.
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adstar: "Will you people ever find peace?"
I found peace through Jesus years ago. Before i accepted Jesus i was a driven individual never at peace or content no matter what i achieved or did. I doubt i would still be alive today if not for the peace i have received from the knowledge of Jesus.*************
M*W: Then what are your plans when christianity is no more? Will you still have peace when the truth about Jesus and christianity is revealed?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/QUOTE]
Yo Adstar,
Quote Adstar:
“So with that in mind. If someone has read the story of Jesus, has read His teachings and has understood who Jesus is. If that person then disbelieves and does not accept Jesus after coming to know the true Jesus, then no, i do not believe my God will forgive them for rejecting The Messiah.”
What happens to the dude who rejects this story? What is the result of "God will not forgive them"?
Ahem.
Quote Adstar:
“So with that in mind. If someone has read the story of Jesus, has read His teachings and has understood who Jesus is. If that person then disbelieves and does not accept Jesus after coming to know the true Jesus, then no, i do not believe my God will forgive them for rejecting The Messiah.”
What happens to the dude who rejects this story? What is the result of "God will not forgive them"?
Ahem.
stretched said:
To such a person, judgement, forgiveness and salvation don't mean anything anyway -- so I don't see where the problem is.
They don't acknowldge God's authority, and they don't feel they need to respect it.
Does that make God bad, if people don't obey Him?
Does not obeying God make people bad?
Hermann
Registered Senior Member
Adstar,
When somebody tells you, that you will get shot, if you don’t fulfil a certain requirement, what will you do?
Either you are very brave, you will say to yourself, that is nonsense, I don’t want to be forced and therefore you do nothing – or you fulfil his requirement in order to avoid any risk. Unfortunately not many people are brave. And, by the way, going to hell for eternity seems to be worse than getting shot.
When somebody tells you, that you will get shot, if you don’t fulfil a certain requirement, what will you do?
Either you are very brave, you will say to yourself, that is nonsense, I don’t want to be forced and therefore you do nothing – or you fulfil his requirement in order to avoid any risk. Unfortunately not many people are brave. And, by the way, going to hell for eternity seems to be worse than getting shot.
Hermann said:
Tell me Hermann has someone ever threatened you will death for not confessing belief in Jesus? No one put a gun to my head seeking a statement of faith. You cannot make anyone have faith in God and Jesus using force. People will confess anything if they fear death. But what people confess and what they really believe in that case will be totally different. And God has said without belief no one can please Him.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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stretched said:
Revelation 20
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
Hermann said:
It depends on how the threat is presented, doesn't it?
If I'd tell you that I will shoot you if you don't do so and so, will you simply believe me, and be afraid?
I don't think so.
But if I came to your door, with a gun in my hand and a troop of big, strong, angry men, and then speak my threat -- will you believe me then? You better.
As for God: Do you see someone pointing a gun to your head, do you see a troop of big, strong, angry men?
No.
Hermann said:
Seems. SEEMS. What do you know about hell and eternity? Have you been there? Do you believe in them?
Do you believe in God?
If you don't believe in God, then how can you be afraid of His judgement?!?!