Why is god so hard to believe?

[=SputniK-CL=]

Mystee,

You are 100% confident of your 'feelings'?

I wish I could say the same. You will no doubt admit that humans are fallible, so how can you trust your emotions without ANY doubt? I can admit that I may be wrong, can you?

Are you gonna tell me you feel you are right? This is circular logic and in itself proof that it is a self sustaining fantasy. Also, you are aware that the Christian Faith states very clearly that you will burn in hell if you dont accept Christ. You share this view? You think we will burn because we fail to accept your faith? Because we question God so? You say you cannot prove your conviction, can you disprove ours? I seek answers and God does not give answers, but only more questions. If I were to die today and stand before God, I would not regret the honesty I showed myself.

The following come from Scientists, Philisophers...(no, I do not expect mere platitudes to convince you of my view, but they tend to capture the essence of it very nicely)

"Minds are like parachutes; they work best when open."

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."

"Religion is the idol of the mob; it adores everything it does not understand."

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

"I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence."

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him."

 

[Cris]

Mystee,

A fantasy is something someone made up such as invisible rabid squirrels attacking from all sides. That is fiction.

And that example is more believable than gods since at least rabid squirrels can exist whereas no one has yet shown that gods are possible let alone that one might actually exist.

A belief that has lasted since the beginning of time is not a fantasy.

Why not? Can you show any proof that it is anything other than a fantasy? The belief that the world was flat also lasted a long time. It is a logical fallacy to assume that because something has been believed for a long time that it must be true.

Did you know that there is more physical evidence (that which would hold up in court) for the resurrection then for Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo? Though I don't have the proof sitting in my hand to show to you, it is there.

You will need to prove that and quote some references if you want that claim to be seen as having any value.

Does that mean Waterloo is a fantasy because there is a lack of physical evidence?

If there were indeed no evidence for Waterloo then how would you know it isn’t a fantasy?

From Webster – Fantasy: a creation of the imaginative faculty whether expressed or merely conceived.

From Webster – Fiction: something invented by the imagination or feigned; specifically: an invented story.

Without proof of God you have nothing more than a fictional story and a fantasy.

I am not wise enough or worthy to defend love like you want me to. It fights its own battles for the soul..

Then why do you believe what you claim. If you do not understand it then what qualifies you to attempt to convince others of your case. Either justify your claim or stay quiet. I believe the usual phrase in a less eloquent form is ‘put up or shut up’.

And what do you mean by ‘soul’ anyway?

We all have equal access to God. If you want to know more about his love, ask him. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.

Claiming something as evidence for the thing under question is circular reasoning and invalid logic. You are right it doesn’t help.

 

[Mystee]

Originally posted by Cris
Mystee,

And that example is more believable than gods since at least rabid squirrels can exist whereas no one has yet shown that gods are possible let alone that one might actually exist.

Do INVISIBLE rabbid squirrels really exist?

If there were indeed no evidence for Waterloo then how would you know it isn’t a fantasy?

So you believe in nothing without evedence? what a sad sorry life you must live. Where is the physical proof love exists? If there is none then do you deprive yourself of love? science is ever changing and ever growing. Before anything was proven it was first a theory that someone looked into. If everyone only believed things they had proof of then science would not exist. Everything proven by science was once "fantasy" with no proof. That didn't mean it wasn't true. What was the tallest mountain before mt. everest was discovered? Mt. everest! It was still there and still the tallest even though we didn't know about it. What we know or believe does not chage what is true.

Then why do you believe what you claim. If you do not understand it then what qualifies you to attempt to convince others of your case. Either justify your claim or stay quiet. I believe the usual phrase in a less eloquent form is ‘put up or shut up’.

I never said I didn't understand love only that I could not accuratly defend it. I don't have to words to say what I know, but it is still a cause worth fighting for.

And what do you mean by ‘soul’ anyway?

Soul: the part of us that dwells in our bodies for a time before returning to it's maker.

Claiming something as evidence for the thing under question is circular reasoning and invalid logic. You are right it doesn’t help.

God speaks for himself more powerfully then any person could. But to hear him you must first listen. Circular reasoning or not, if you would talk to him about it he would answer.

in Christ's love,

Mystee

 

[Mystee]

Originally posted by =SputniK-CL=
Mystee,

You are 100% confident of your 'feelings'?
I wish I could say the same. You will no doubt admit that humans are fallible, so how can you trust your emotions without ANY doubt? I can admit that I may be wrong, can you?

Did I say that? Funny, I remember saying "I know with 100% assurence down to the core of my being that there is a God who loves me." I don't see where my feelings are involved at all. I have confidence of God's love for me no matter what my feelings because I agree with you that human emotions can be deceiving. Yes I have even on this forum admited many times when I am wrong. I am human I am faulable, but the one a speak for is holy and perfect.

Are you gonna tell me you feel you are right?

No but thatnks for asking.

Also, you are aware that the Christian Faith states very clearly that you will burn in hell if you dont accept Christ. You share this view?

Yes

You think we will burn because we fail to accept your faith? Because we question God so?

No, I will never say someone specifically or especially a whole group of people will go to Hell. That is judging to its fullest. But if you were condemned to Hell it would not be for your questioning. Contrary to popular belief, God wants people to ask questions about him. God wants us to know about him, and your interest in him is welcomed even if you don't believe the answers given to you, yet.

You say you cannot prove your conviction, can you disprove ours?

Maybe, not at the moment because I don't know for sure what your convictions are. But I am confident that even if I could disprove your beliefs you would never admit it. Many of you on this forum are so firm in your science and proof that you will never admit you are wrong until God softens your hearts.

I seek answers and God does not give answers, but only more questions.

I am not sure what you mean by you seek and God gives. Do you mena this literally like you have been praying to God or do you mean that you try to learn about God and can't? I will have more on this once I know what you ment.

I don't expect to convince you with this either, but here's my opinions anyway.

"Minds are like parachutes; they work best when open."

Ok but be sure your mind is not so open that your brain falls out. Joking aside I do have an opened mind. Look at your responses to me. Do you have an opened mind towards me?

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." [/QOUTE]

good. tack "compared to your creator" on the end and that would be the essence of humbleness in a sentence.

"Religion is the idol of the mob; it adores everything it does not understand."

Well that may be true, but I can't know for sure since I am a christian not a religionest. I think that there is a lot wrong with the corperate church of America, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with God.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

I agree he doesn't. God gives gifts of reason and intellect so people will use them to better understand him.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

Agreed. Question, but besure you are open to any answer.

"I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence."

Funny. doesn't really say anything real but it is funny anyway. christians must deal with the weather just as other people do. God never said "No churches shall ever be struck by lightning" if he had then there would be some truth to that statement. Though I think it was originally said as a joke.

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him."

hmmmm. Now this I have never heard. It got me thinking to say the least. I see the point and even the truth in it. We were made to need God, so in our present state if he didn't exist we would need him and there for creat a replacement. But on the other hand if he really didn't exist we would feel no need for him. Just as we feel no need to create any fantasy creatur and pretend it is real. There is just no need. Good quotes very entertaining.


Lots of love,

Mystee

 

[Cris]

Mystee,

Do INVISIBLE rabbid squirrels really exist?

You mean you haven’t seen them? LOL. I didn’t see the word invisible.

So you believe in nothing without evidence?

I see no reason to believe something that may not be true.

what a sad sorry life you must live. Where is the physical proof love exists?

Do you mean that you haven’t experienced it yet? When you do you will realize that it is very physical.

If there is none then do you deprive yourself of love?

Love is an expression of physical actions and emotional sensations, all of which are physically very real. I don’t see your point.

science is ever changing and ever growing.

This is good.

Before anything was proven it was first a theory that someone looked into. If everyone only believed things they had proof of then science would not exist. Everything proven by science was once "fantasy" with no proof. That didn't mean it wasn't true.

I recommend you take a basic course in science or at least understand the principles of the scientific method, try this –

http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node5.html

A key point is that one doesn’t need to believe something is true when creating an imaginative speculation.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle.

Soul: the part of us that dwells in our bodies for a time before returning to it's maker.

OK thanks for your definition.

I don’t suppose you have any proof that such things exist do you? Do you realize that the non existence of souls means that gods are pretty much irrelevant whether they exist or not. If we have nothing that passes into an afterlife then God has nothing that will worship him or that he can torture for eternity.

Why do you think you have a soul?

The word ‘soul’ originates from Greek and means ‘breath’. In earlier times it was noted that when someone dies their breath disappears. It was therefore believed that ‘breath’ was the life force that inhabited each individual when alive, and which departed the body when the body died. This superstition led to ideas about evil spirits being breathed in and taking over. The bible makes many references to the breath of life and even in Genesis where God breathed life into Adam.

We now know of course, via science, the true source of ‘breath’ which pretty much destroys the superstition.

God speaks for himself more powerfully then any person could. But to hear him you must first listen. Circular reasoning or not, if you would talk to him about it he would answer.

I did want to hear, I did listen, and nothing answered.

 

[mountainhare]

Cris, I don't know how to explain this, but when I read your posts, my heart 'lifts'. I think our minds operate on the same frequency level. It is good to know that their is a voice of logic and reason in this forum. There are many others, but you seem to stand out.

So you believe in nothing without evidence?

That is an excellent question.
It depends on the claim. It has been heard many times on this forum that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

If a claim is rather hard to believe, or defies logic, then it requires evidence.

For example, if my friend said "I saw a dog on the road this morning!" I would not need evidence. There is nothing amazing about a dog on the road. Why would my friend lie about that? And even if he is lying, who cares?

If my friend says "I saw Elvis in the grocery store!" then this defies logic, as we all know Elvis is dead. Therefore, I would require evidence before believing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, you are aware that the Christian Faith states very clearly that you will burn in hell if you dont accept Christ. You share this view?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes

I am trembling with fear. *sarcasm*

But I am confident that even if I could disprove your beliefs you would never admit it. Many of you on this forum are so firm in your science and proof that you will never admit you are wrong until God softens your hearts.

Yes, some of us require evidence before believing extraordinary claims. Is that a crime? Is it illogical? Do you believe in unicorns, Santa, or *smiles* invisible rabid squirrels? Why not?

Look at your responses to me. Do you have an opened mind towards me?

Cris has been very patient. She has given up her time to see if you can present evidence. If someone is spending their time to listen and search for evidence, I would say that they are pretty open-minded.

We were made to need God

Every other animal doesn't need God. They are independent. So therefore, they must be superior to humans, hmmm?

But on the other hand if he really didn't exist we would feel no need for him

Rubbish. People don't feel a need for 'god'. They feel a need for an afterlife, and the fact that someone or something is there to protect them.

Just as we feel no need to create any fantasy creature and pretend it is real. There is just no need.

Yes, no one has ever believed in fairies, dragons, demons, or anal-probing martains *sarcasm*.

Do you know that one religion believes that we are the clones of ALIENS? They have created a fantasy creature, and are pretending that it is real.

What about Australian Aboriginals? They have the Rainbow SNAKE. Another fantasy creature.

And you have you fantasy GOD. Except your god is bigger and better than a rainbow snake or aliens, isn't he? He's all powerful. Jeez, I wonder why you like to worship him?

Hey, guess what Mystee? I don't feel any need for a God! According to your logic, that means he doesn't exist.

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by mountainhare
Cris, I don't know how to explain this, but when I read your posts, my heart 'lifts'. I think our minds operate on the same frequency level.
....
Cris has been very patient. She has given up her time to see if you can present evidence.

Seems a case of belief on assumption without evidence. Cris, it is time to de-belief the other hare or change your avatar please, before it is too late.