Why Has Nothing Worked?

[lightgigantic]

*************
M*W: Would a "just god" allow 9 million women to be murdered during the Great Inquisition?

Would a "just god" allow 6 million Jews to die in the Holocaust?

Would a "just god" allow some 50 million innocent Russians to be murdered under an evil empire?

Would a "just god" allow 3 thousand civilians to be slaughtered on 9/11?

Would a "just god" all millions of Muslims to be slaughtered during the Crusades?

Would a "just god" allow all those people to die during the Great Plagues?

Could a "just god" be this blood hungry and still promise the rest of us a place in heaven?

There is no "just god." In fact, there is no god.

BG 5.15: Nor does the Supreme Lord assume anyone's sinful or pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge.

In other words you assume that a person in the material world is acting or has a history like some heavenly angel - what is the living entity doing in the material world in the first case if not to try to enjoy separate from god (and suffer or enjoy the resultant actions)?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Is the only way God can eradicate man's evil in this world is by eliminating man? To keep us alive means He has no desire to stop it. Why? To kill us all would be admitting He made a mistake? What would that matter if we are all gone? Start over, who's gonna know?

 

[VitalOne]

*************
M*W: Would a "just god" allow 9 million women to be murdered during the Great Inquisition?

Would a "just god" allow 6 million Jews to die in the Holocaust?

Would a "just god" allow some 50 million innocent Russians to be murdered under an evil empire?

Would a "just god" allow 3 thousand civilians to be slaughtered on 9/11?

Would a "just god" all millions of Muslims to be slaughtered during the Crusades?

Would a "just god" allow all those people to die during the Great Plagues?

Could a "just god" be this blood hungry and still promise the rest of us a place in heaven?

There is no "just god." In fact, there is no god.

All these things happened by karma, and by karma only...God is untouched by all of this, not in contact with this material nature or material conceptions of "this is good" or "this is bad"

 

[lightgigantic]

Is the only way God can eradicate man's evil in this world is by eliminating man?

no - generally he works more at eradicating sinful desire, since eradicating the corporeal body that the eternal soul occupies serves no ultimate purpose in that regard

To keep us alive means He has no desire to stop it.

on the contrary when our sinful acts turn around and bite us on the backside even the most daft of us tend to see the pattern

Why? To kill us all would be admitting He made a mistake?

thats right

deny everything
blame everyone
be bitter

What would that matter if we are all gone? Start over, who's gonna know?

if that's your philosophy what does it matter if you die in ten seconds or ten hundred years since death is waiting anyway?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

no - generally he works more at eradicating sinful desire, since eradicating the corporeal body that the eternal soul occupies serves no ultimate purpose in that regard

That's been a rip-roaring success

on the contrary when our sinful acts turn around and bite us on the backside even the most daft of us tend to see the pattern

The pattern is.... nothing ever works.

thats right

deny everything
blame everyone
be bitter

Ya, I'm disappointed in His failure. I expect a little more from Him maybe...like perfection

if that's your philosophy what does it matter if you die in ten seconds or ten hundred years since death is waiting anyway?

Maybe it's time for all believers to admit He makes mistakes. What does it matter if you live a million years when you think your going to eternity when you croak.

 

[mikenostic]

so your gripe is that god doesn't deal with the problem of evil instantaneously?

:bugeye: Uhhhh...I think that's a pretty legitimate gripe if you ask me.

What if you were the commander of Centcom and you just received 100% reliable intelligence that without a doubt Osama Bin Laden is at a certain location within your grasp. Do you order airstrikes/insertions to hammer him right then, or do you wait for some stupid ass prophecy?

Who here WOULDN'T give our forces the green light right then and there if they had a decision like that to make????

 

[lightgigantic]

Psychotic episode

“
no - generally he works more at eradicating sinful desire, since eradicating the corporeal body that the eternal soul occupies serves no ultimate purpose in that regard
”
That's been a rip-roaring success

given the eternal time factor of the material world, yes it has been (after all, death still has a 100% success rate)

“
on the contrary when our sinful acts turn around and bite us on the backside even the most daft of us tend to see the pattern
”
The pattern is.... nothing ever works.

the fact that nothing works in the material world tends to indicate something to an intelligent person (others develop calluses on their backsides)

“
thats right

deny everything
blame everyone
be bitter
”
Ya, I'm disappointed in His failure. I expect a little more from Him maybe...like perfection

maybe its required that you have to abandon your ideas on how you can be perfect since it doesn't appear to be working for you
“

if that's your philosophy what does it matter if you die in ten seconds or ten hundred years since death is waiting anyway?
”
Maybe it's time for all believers to admit He makes mistakes.

I guess that requires the contribution of intelligent atheists to present coherent arguments on the subject

What does it matter if you live a million years when you think your going to eternity when you croak.

eternity we have anyway - the issue is whether one wants to spend time in a place that doesn't work, full of similarly disgruntled persons frustrated because nothing works, or spend time in an environment bereft of such dysfunctionalism

 

[lightgigantic]

:bugeye: Uhhhh...I think that's a pretty legitimate gripe if you ask me.

What if you were the commander of Centcom and you just received 100% reliable intelligence that without a doubt Osama Bin Laden is at a certain location within your grasp. Do you order airstrikes/insertions to hammer him right then, or do you wait for some stupid ass prophecy?

Who here WOULDN'T give our forces the green light right then and there if they had a decision like that to make????

so given that everyone who comes to the material world has issues of evil to deal with, you think that intelligent option is to simply annihilate them (as opposed to gradually rehabilitate them in a controlled atmosphere that delivers the results of their foolishness to their backsides)
????

 

[battig1370]

Why Has Nothing Worked?

Because of the disobedience to the two great commandments nothing has worked. This disobedience has caused and will cause massive suffering and destruction. Mankind in general has refused to love their neighbors as they love themselves. Also man in general is refusing to be a good steward of the planet earth and consequenses of these will be ---. > Your imagination can take you there.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

At least you agree nothing has worked. The reasons are immaterial...God hasn't got the job done yet.

 

[SnakeLord]

Because of the disobedience to the two great commandments nothing has worked. This disobedience has caused and will cause massive suffering and destruction. Mankind in general has refused to love their neighbors as they love themselves.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother in law..."

It seems it's not so much that mankind has 'refused', but that mankind are actually living up to the very purpose of jesus. He didn't come to bring peace, to bring love and harmony, no.. In his own words he came specifically to set people against each other - to cause animosity and hatred, to cause dissension and strife, to ensure mankind could not and would not love even their own family let alone their neighbours.

So, what you're actually saying is that mankind will suffer and be destroyed for doing exactly what jesus wanted them to do. That's nice.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

BG 5.15: Nor does the Supreme Lord assume anyone's sinful or pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge.

In other words you assume that a person in the material world is acting or has a history like some heavenly angel - what is the living entity doing in the material world in the first case if not to try to enjoy separate from god (and suffer or enjoy the resultant actions)?

*************
M*W: No, I am not assuming that.

 

[NDS]

Humans are just as "sinful" as we were since the beginning of time.

The only thing that has changed since Jesus is that now "believers" must "believe" more things than they had to before. And they are having the same success with that "belief" than they always have had (not good).

 

[lightgigantic]

At least you agree nothing has worked. The reasons are immaterial...God hasn't got the job done yet.

I think that battig was indicating that we are the one's sitting on our laurels

 

[lightgigantic]

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother in law..."

It seems it's not so much that mankind has 'refused', but that mankind are actually living up to the very purpose of jesus. He didn't come to bring peace, to bring love and harmony, no.. In his own words he came specifically to set people against each other - to cause animosity and hatred, to cause dissension and strife, to ensure mankind could not and would not love even their own family let alone their neighbours.

So, what you're actually saying is that mankind will suffer and be destroyed for doing exactly what jesus wanted them to do. That's nice.

there's no peace in a neighborhood full of miscreants, particularly when law and order makes its presence

 

[SnakeLord]

there's no peace in a neighborhood full of miscreants, particularly when law and order makes its presence

Fascinating but irrelevant to what I said.

 

[NDS]

LG, why do you come on this site and argue? Do you have some kind of deep, subconscious doubt about your beliefs and feel that you must justify them?

Or is it just that you're arrogant (like IAC and many others) and think you are better than everyone else?

 

[lightgigantic]

LG, why do you come on this site and argue? Do you have some kind of deep, subconscious doubt about your beliefs and feel that you must justify them?

Or is it just that you're arrogant (like IAC and many others) and think you are better than everyone else?

actually it is an opportunity to refine my arguments since I am frequently involved in presenting them to a wide range of people (although it tends to only be on this site that I encounter uncivilized banter - although that is perhaps due to the nature of the net, which is sufficiently anonymous to make cheekiness easier)

so thats my cards on the table

why do you come here to argue NDS?

Do you have some kind of deep, subconscious doubt about your beliefs and feel that you must justify them?

Fascinating but irrelevant to what I said.

suppose your daughter displayed the tendency to become a devout christian through her early teenage years to adult hood - would there be peace in your household?

 

[SnakeLord]

suppose your daughter displayed the tendency to become a devout christian through her early teenage years to adult hood - would there be peace in your household?

The point of which was that if that was the case that it would fulfill the very purpose of jesus being here. That, given the biblical statement, is clearly the way he wants it to be.

However to answer your question.. yes, my girls life is her life, not mine.

 

[NDS]

actually it is an opportunity to refine my arguments since I am frequently involved in presenting them to a wide range of people (although it tends to only be on this site that I encounter uncivilized banter - although that is perhaps due to the nature of the net, which is sufficiently anonymous to make cheekiness easier)

so thats my cards on the table

So all your smart ass, arrogant comments are really intended to refine your argument. Oh, I see.

Please point any posts you made in which you said something like, "Oh, good point. I haven't considered that yet."

You will note that you have not stated something like this even one time, meaning out of your 3500 + posts, you gained no new information from being on this site. You have simply stated facts which you already proclaim to know.

why do you come here to argue NDS?

Do you have some kind of deep, subconscious doubt about your beliefs and feel that you must justify them?

Actually, I'm here because I honestly don't know what to believe. I'm here because I don't have all the answers like you do (or proclaim to).