Why does God allow that there is such a mess when it comes to theism?

[wynn]

I don't have an issue with raped babies.

I have an issue with theists, and with theisms, and with the different (supposed?) processes of getting to know God.


So my questions are:

Why does God allow that there is such a mess when it comes to theism?

Why does God allow that there are so many traditions which claim to have the monopoly on the truth about God?

Why does God allow that it is so difficult to get to know the truth about God?

Why does God allow that individuals are in tormenting situations where it looks like it is up to the individual to decide which religious path to choose, at the threat of choosing the wrong one?

Why does God allow that pretty much anyone can make (seemingly?) objective claims about God, whereby many of these claims are mutually exclusive?

Why does God allow that there are Christians who want us to believe that "love" and "eternal torture" fit together and make perfect sense together?

Why does God allow that cruelty and insanity happen in His name?

Why does God allow that so many people are so insecure about Him?

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Not sure what you mean about the raped babies, but the best explanation I have heard about the multiplicity of religions is that religion is not about what God is, it is about what you are.

If it was about what God is, it would be like a science.
Once someone had described God accurately, that would be it.
If you followed the logic, you would have to come to the same conclusion.

But because it is about what you are, it is different every time.

 

[NMSquirrel]

god allows us to make our own choices..
to that end we as humans tend to screw it up..not god..
so when you say 'why does god allow'
you are actually asking why do humans choose the things they do..

 

[Doreen]

I don't have an issue with raped babies.

:bawl:

I have an issue with theists, and with theisms, and with the different (supposed?) processes of getting to know God.


So my questions are:

Why does God allow that there is such a mess when it comes to theism?

Well, the exclusive Christians would say that the mess is an outgrowth of our free will and all those not Christian using their free will to choose and create ways of turning from God while pretending not to.
Why does God allow that there are so many traditions which claim to have the monopoly on the truth about God?

In Hinduism I encountered something more akin to C Kremmin's response. The idea was that different paths worked for different people. Just as different atheletes might use different conceptions of the Self - which could be interpreted from their different approaches to self-relation in creating excellence.

Why does God allow that it is so difficult to get to know the truth about God?

Lovely question. Related to the problem of evil. I find the answers most theists give to this question thoroughly unsatisfying and they remind me, often, of the excuses people make for people in power.

Why does God allow that individuals are in tormenting situations where it looks like it is up to the individual to decide which religious path to choose, at the threat of choosing the wrong one?

And would a loving God do this? Or should we take serious the fearsome God images?

To the other questions we will be told, I think, that either these are the manifestations of our poor used free will, which God grants us because - for myseterious reasons - it makes the best of possible universes if we can mess up or choose correctly even though this means some suffer eternally; or that we are lost in an illusion, and really the whole thing is a bit like a game God is playing with himself and through meditation + we can realize this and be freed of the illusions

and that this Maya------>'reality' journey is just perfect really though we are too stupid to realize this now on the believing Maya end of things.

 

[Adstar]

I don't have an issue with raped babies.

I have an issue with theists, and with theisms, and with the different (supposed?) processes of getting to know God.

Only a pedophile would not care about babies being raped.

So my questions are:

Why does God allow that there is such a mess when it comes to theism?

Most people on this earth instinctivly believe a God exists. They imagine what a God should be. There are probably many different images of God that different people are attracted to. Worldly religion is about people imagining what God is like and coming to a conclusion and they stick to it, irrespective of what the truth about God is.

Someone said the concept of God is wired into our brains, they might well be on the right track.

Why does God allow that there are so many traditions which claim to have the monopoly on the truth about God?

Because God allows people to follow after that wich they admire. What people affirm as right or reject as evil judges them. People are free to love evil and hate good.

Why does God allow that it is so difficult to get to know the truth about God?

There is heaps of information out there easy to find about God. All you need do (if you feel the need to seek God) is go out and study the different views. In the end each person who seeks will embrace a view. If one embraces the wrong view and rejects the correct view then they have what condemns them.

Why does God allow that individuals are in tormenting situations where it looks like it is up to the individual to decide which religious path to choose, at the threat of choosing the wrong one?

It is a serious decision indeed. Maybe those who are seeking should talk to God with true earnesty asking for help and guidance, for conviction. One does not need to know God to call out to Him.

Why does God allow that pretty much anyone can make (seemingly?) objective claims about God, whereby many of these claims are mutually exclusive?

God allows people to run to what ever they admire.

Why does God allow that there are Christians who want us to believe that "love" and "eternal torture" fit together and make perfect sense together?

Because they do.

Why does God allow that cruelty and insanity happen in His name?

Because He knows people who admire His truth will not be decieved by those who teach cruelty and insanity in His name.

Why does God allow that so many people are so insecure about Him?

People who are insecure are caught up in the bondage of false religion. Because it is Gods righteousness through the Atonement of the Messiah Jesus that saves. Not the righteousness of the saved. For those caught up in false religion one day they will do a few good deeds, resist a sin, perform a religious duty and they will feel more confident and happy, the next day they will fail to do a Good deed, they will commit a sin, and they will be slack in performing a religious duty at the end of that day they will be filled with insecurities and fear. They keep jumping backwards and forwards between hope and despair based on how they measure their own performance.

For me all insecurity is lifted because i have faith and hope in the righteousness of God. I may be all over the place in my personal life. But i know God is perfect and His Words can be relied upon. In the end eternity reconciled with God could only ever be achieved by an act of God. All Glory and Honour is to God who has done the work and provided for those who love the truth and accept and trust in His Work.

Those who are too proud to accept someone else lifting them up into eternity will no be lifted up. They shall fall.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Enmos]

god allows us to make our own choices.

Really? Then why are we supposedly punished (for eternity) if we make the wrong choice according to God (i.e. not believing in him)?

It's like saying the government allows people to murder, but if they do they are sent to prison for life.

If there are rules, breaking those rules is not allowed. Otherwise there wouldn't be rules.

 

[Adstar]

Really? Then why are we supposedly punished (for eternity) if we make the wrong choice according to God (i.e. not believing in him)?

It's like saying the government allows people to murder, but if they do they are sent to prison for life.

If there are rules, breaking those rules is not allowed. Otherwise there wouldn't be rules.

The freedom to do something exists irrespective of the possible outcomes. Do the rules against murder suddenly stop murders from killing others?
So then murderers demonstrate they have freedom to kill irrespective of the rules and possible outcomes of their actions.

If you really want to do something then no rule is going to stop you. That’s freedom.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Enmos]

The freedom to do something exists irrespective of the possible outcomes. Do the rules against murder suddenly stop murders from killing others?
So then murderers demonstrate they have freedom to kill irrespective of the rules and possible outcomes of their actions.

If you really want to do something then no rule is going to stop you. That’s freedom.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

What are the intentions of the ones making the rules?

If someone makes a rule the only tool he has to enforce it is to punish anyone that breaks it. Making rules means you want to control people and take away part of their freedom.
If you look at the severity of punishments you can work out how much the entity that makes them wants people to adhere to its rules.
Do you know of a more severe punishment than hell?

 

[Enmos]

So my questions are:

Why does God allow that there is such a mess when it comes to theism?

Why does God allow that there are so many traditions which claim to have the monopoly on the truth about God?

Why does God allow that it is so difficult to get to know the truth about God?

Why does God allow that individuals are in tormenting situations where it looks like it is up to the individual to decide which religious path to choose, at the threat of choosing the wrong one?

Why does God allow that pretty much anyone can make (seemingly?) objective claims about God, whereby many of these claims are mutually exclusive?

Why does God allow that there are Christians who want us to believe that "love" and "eternal torture" fit together and make perfect sense together?

Why does God allow that cruelty and insanity happen in His name?

Why does God allow that so many people are so insecure about Him?

One answer fits all: God doesn't exist as anything other than an idea.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

That sounds very Lockeian of you Enmos.
Are you a Lockeian?

 

[Dywyddyr]

The freedom to do something exists irrespective of the possible outcomes. Do the rules against murder suddenly stop murders from killing others?

The biased way you phrase the question pre-judges the answer. Obviously, if someone is a murderer then they have have already broken the rule.
How about "Do the rules against murder stop potential murderERs from killing others?"
To which the answer is much less obvious.
Does anyone have statistics on the number of people who WOULD murder if it were not illegal and carried no penalty? I don't know of any but I would suggest that the "rules against murder" have prevented quite a few deaths. So many (again, speculating) that the number of people actually murdered would be close to insignificant by comparison.

 

[Lori_7]

I don't have an issue with raped babies.

I have an issue with theists, and with theisms, and with the different (supposed?) processes of getting to know God.


So my questions are:

Why does God allow that there is such a mess when it comes to theism?

Why does God allow that there are so many traditions which claim to have the monopoly on the truth about God?

Why does God allow that it is so difficult to get to know the truth about God?

Why does God allow that individuals are in tormenting situations where it looks like it is up to the individual to decide which religious path to choose, at the threat of choosing the wrong one?

Why does God allow that pretty much anyone can make (seemingly?) objective claims about God, whereby many of these claims are mutually exclusive?

Why does God allow that there are Christians who want us to believe that "love" and "eternal torture" fit together and make perfect sense together?

Why does God allow that cruelty and insanity happen in His name?

Why does God allow that so many people are so insecure about Him?

to me it seems like a test of our intent.

maybe to see if we really want to commune with him and each other, or if we would rather substitute religion for communion, and use religion to segregate ourselves.

i think that the whore who rides the dragon in revelations is symbolic of religion and represents a cheap substitute for the real thing, and that's bought and sold.

love and eternal torture fit together because it's torture to be without love.

 

[Enmos]

That sounds very Lockeian of you Enmos.
Are you a Lockeian?

What is a Lockeian?

 

[Lori_7]

Not sure what you mean about the raped babies, but the best explanation I have heard about the multiplicity of religions is that religion is not about what God is, it is about what you are.

If it was about what God is, it would be like a science.
Once someone had described God accurately, that would be it.
If you followed the logic, you would have to come to the same conclusion.

But because it is about what you are, it is different every time.

i really, really agree with this.

given the way god has been with me personally, i don't get the impression that he appreciates codependence (mental/emotional), or fear, or insecurity. instead, god fosters individuality, faith (trust), strength, and peace (peace of mind). you get to know yourself by knowing god. the whole ride with him is a self discovery process. you get to see what you're really made of. instead of religion telling you what to do and why, god is asking you, "what are you doing and why?" it makes a big difference.

 

[Hapsburg]

Why does God(s) allow that there is such a mess when it comes to theism?

They know that there are many ways to reach them, and that no single one is necessarily completely right or completely wrong. Furthermore, I do not believe that the gods punish people for their personal philosophies; so, not believing in them isn't much of an issue. If a path makes a person happy and spiritually fulfilled, the gods have no need to do anything.

Why does God(s) allow that there are so many traditions which claim to have the monopoly on the truth about God?

Most religions don't claim a monopoly over truth. Mine doesn't. Mine recognises that it is only one of many paths to approach the gods.

Why does God(s) allow that there are Christians who want us to believe that "love" and "eternal torture" fit together and make perfect sense together?

You say that like the gods control our free will or something.

Why does God(s) allow that cruelty and insanity happen in His name?

Again, the gods don't control us. They can contact us and influence us, but they do not control our thoughts and actions.

What is a Lockeian?

Someone who agrees with the philosophy of John Locke. What else?

 

[wynn]

I don't have an issue with raped babies.

:bawl:

I mean that the distress I feel at the thought of raped babies is minimum in comparison to the distress I feel at the thought that it is love that God tortures many of His beloved children in hell for all eternity.

 

[Light Travelling]

I mean that the distress I feel at the thought of raped babies is minimum in comparison to the distress I feel at the thought that it is love that God tortures many of His beloved children in hell for all eternity.

Do you really think about this stuff..?

 

[wynn]

Who doesn't?

 

[Enmos]

Someone who agrees with the philosophy of John Locke. What else?

Ah, of course. Duh..

That sounds very Lockeian of you Enmos.
Are you a Lockeian?

No, I disagree with his premises (natural rights). I'm not that familiar with his philosophies though.
Anyway, I was just stating how things are (or at least how I think they are) and not how I think they should be.

 

[Light Travelling]

Who doesn't?

About raped babies and tortures in hell............. not me for one. Seriously unhealthy thoughts I would say my friend.