Why does evolution select against atheists?

S.A.M. said:
Is that an in-group thing? Or do you extend yourself to out-group people who get unfairly insulted as well?
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No, I'm just sticking up for myself, and that automatically includes people in the same situation.
 
That atheist opinions are actually more relevant in a majority theist society, than theist opinions have ever been in a majority atheist one. If you can't be inclusive, you'll lose support. Or be reduced to small communities that live on the fringe.

The problem of course is that more people are inclined to be theistic and hence when they form their own communities, the majority atheist states break down.
 
S.A.M. said:
S.A.M. said:
That atheist opinions are actually more relevant in a majority theist society, than theist opinions have ever been in a majority atheist one. If you can't be inclusive, you'll lose support. Or be reduced to small communities that live on the fringe.

The problem of course is that more people are inclined to be theistic and hence when they form their own communities, the majority atheist states break down.
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I don't agree at all.
What opinions are you talking about ?

You seem to be suggesting that the essence of atheism is to oppose theists. Not true at all.
 
Any opinion. This is a general commentary on group behaviour. It could be a book club.
 
And they are very rigid in their beliefs and incapable of being inclusive.

edit: you added

You seem to be suggesting that the essence of atheism is to oppose theists. Not true at all.
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Of course it is! Atheism is basically a rejection of the beliefs of theists. If thats not opposition, what is? What are atheist books, atheist sites, atheist commentaries about? Theists!
 
S.A.M. said:
And they are very rigid in their beliefs and incapable of being inclusive.
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If there never would have been any theists, everyone would be atheist.
:shrug:

And I am not incapable of being inclusive, far from it. Nor is any atheist I know.
Or if you mean inclusive in the sense that atheists should immerse themselves in your religion, I'd say pot-kettle.
 
Ignorance is a fuel for the religious fire

S.A.M. said:

The problem of course is that more people are inclined to be theistic and hence when they form their own communities, the majority atheist states break down
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You're working with an exceptionally limited, extremely tenuous sample.

Remember that all these theistic societies and their theism were established among illiterate masses. "God did it," and, "God says so," are a lot easier for the ignorant to understand than reality.

There's a reason why theism has certain appeal. You don't even have to be able to read in order to understand its basic assertions.
 
S.A.M. said:
Of course it is! Atheism is basically a rejection of the beliefs of theists. If thats not opposition, what is? What are atheist books, atheist sites, atheist commentaries about? Theists!
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Then that is your basic error.
Atheism does not mirror theism. Atheism is characterized by not believing in any gods. No theists needed for that. You let yourself be confused by the name 'atheism'.
 
My dear Enmos, atheism by definition is excluding.

Theists want to "save" atheists by including them in the group, by pointing out similarities, atheists aim to divest theists of their beliefs or challenge them by pointing out that they are stupid, delusional, illiterate, ie by pointing out how much better they are, ie by pointing out differences.
 
S.A.M. said:
My dear Enmos, atheism by definition is excluding.
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Nope. Atheism doesn't need theism to exist.

S.A.M. said:
Theists want to "save" atheists by including them, atheists aim to divest theists of their beliefs or challenge them by pointing out that they are stupid, delusional, illiterate, ie by pointing out how much better they are.
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You're generalizing again :rolleyes:

Anyway, it's been nice. Got to go now though.
Talk to you later :)
 
Enmos said:
Nope. Atheism doesn't need theism to exist.
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You can't reject a belief that does not exist or a god you do not know of. :p

ttyl.;)

Tiassa said:
You're working with an exceptionally limited, extremely tenuous sample.

Remember that all these theistic societies and their theism were established among illiterate masses. "God did it," and, "God says so," are a lot easier for the ignorant to understand than reality.

There's a reason why theism has certain appeal. You don't even have to be able to read in order to understand its basic assertions.
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I'd say that the last century has shown us why the appeal persists. I hear religious observance is rising in China and Russia and the Khmer Rouge have embraced Christianity
 
Sam,

The idea of having the freedom is that you can do it. Whats the point of a freedom where you pick and choose if people can do it or not?

You also have the freedom to stick up for the other side, if and when you choose to do so.
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It's whats right and wrong, decency.

Theists want to "save" atheists by including them in the group, by pointing out similarities, atheists aim to divest theists of their beliefs or challenge them by pointing out that they are stupid, delusional, illiterate, ie by pointing out how much better they are, ie by pointing out differences.
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This is rich. Change this to read with theists and atheists revesed in the sentence and it would make more sense.

Atheists have nothing perceived to gain from converting theists. It is however, the perceived right of the religious individual and of social importance to convert the non-believer.

I find it interesting that you feel that atheists are part of a truly organized group like theists are. I don't belong to any atheist society or group, don't attend any meetings etc, have no desire to do so and NONE of the atheists that I know do either. One of the reason is as LEOPOLD 99 pointed out it becomes the same thing. Worshipping a position that is not any more proveable than the other. I don't believe, you can't prove there is a god and I can't prove there is not.

I do realize that there are organizations that fight organized religion from attempting to take control of government run institutions more than they already have.

But there is no conspiracy here. We aren't organized. There is no plan. In fact we are painfully inept in our organizational skills.

Who would you say is the leader of the atheists ?
 
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