The diferance between God choosing for Jesus to die and God willing it is Jesus had say in the matter. If it were God's choice, Jesus would have been praying for stength to do what he was supposed to do. Because it was his will, Jesus was praying, if there's any way possible to avoid the please let it be, but if not, I want to please you and do this.
Why do you believe in Jesus?
- Thread starter Joeman
- Start date
This is nonsensical. god could choose whatever he felt like. You can't say if it was his choice jesus would have prayed one particular prayer. All your post shows is that jesus had no choice, and even asked to be saved from it- it in no way implies that god doesn't have a choice.
In short: god chose for jesus to die, jesus said "do i have to?" and god answered "yes".
What do you mean 'nothing wrong'? He blasphemed. Somehow he failed to show the jews that he was indeed the messiah, but claimed to be just like many others have done throughout history. In those days blasphemy was an offence that you could be killed for. In some countries it still is. The very same thing happened to David Koresh. He claimed to be the messiah and one way or another ended up dead.
If he really was the messiah, the jews would have been bowing at his feet, instead of the people who would have been pagan enemies of the jews deciding he was and writing a book about him.
Lol, yeah, I know whatcha mean.
See that's the thing. I'm glad you can look around and see God's handiwork and all. That's enough proof to me as well that there's an Almighty Creator. However, you still have blind faith and that's the questions that are answered about God through the Bible. It's one thing to say and believe that there is a God, it's another to try and define God and his history which is what religion is. And that’s not even taking into account that there’s very little, in some cases no, proof towards most biblical claims other than the Bible itself. I mean geez, substitute the word “Bible” for something else and only a fool would believe, let alone dedicate their lives to, something with very little proof of. As one can see with televangelists, all you need to do is use the word GOD and you can sell anything. Funny what fear of the unknown can do to people.
Anyhow, with me, I seperate God and religion. I believe in a God but I try not to define that which I do not know and why should I follow the written beliefs of man when various people try to define God through various religions yet they do not all agree with one another?
I can easily understand why one may believe in God, but it's another thing to follow a certain religion. Why is it you follow Christianity as opposed to another religion? I mean heck, they all talk about God so there's a common thing. It's a bit silly to say that one is a Christian because they believe in God, lol. So why is it that you follow the religion that you do? Most likely it's because you were raised that way which I feel sorry for you, if so. It's much better when one follows a religion because they noticed the similar beliefs they share. Otherwise it's all meaningless because the person was basically brainwashed since they didn't choose the religion they follow through their own means but rather force.
I really don't see any unique or heart-felt reasons why people follow the religion they do. It's usually all generic stuff which all other religions can share. I read good morals in the Bible, I see this, I see that. I have fun singing in my church choir. I believe in God so I'm a Christian. See all the generic reasons? To me, the Bible isn't all that great. I've read more beautiful stuff in other holy texts. Christianity is about Jesus, not God, so since you seem to believe in God due to all the handiwork you see about you, you should try reading other religious texts that tell more about their thinkings of God, and I'm sure you'll find something that fits more with your beliefs towards the Almighty than a book about Jesus.
Remember, you don’t have to be a Christian to believe in God. If God is who you seek, you may as well follow all religions, not just one. To follow just one religion to find out about God is insulting to the other religions. The same to one who just believes in Jesus. It’s insulting to all the other important past prophets as well. Why choose one and dismiss the rest (not saying you do, but many do), especially when others are written more beautifully and actually have more meaning and things that’ll make ya think?
- N
Neildo, this might be helpful to you:
Romans 1
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
What the text is saying is that we know God without any "interference" from the Bible, parents, and such stimuli. On the issue of blind faith, the text also discusses the evidence of our Creator.
This might also prove helpful in reading the text:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commenta...theBible/gil.cgi?book=ro&chapter=001&verse=19
Romans 1
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
What the text is saying is that we know God without any "interference" from the Bible, parents, and such stimuli. On the issue of blind faith, the text also discusses the evidence of our Creator.
This might also prove helpful in reading the text:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commenta...theBible/gil.cgi?book=ro&chapter=001&verse=19
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Why should Romans have any more authority/credibility than a letter from David Karesh?
Enigma'07, back on page four I asked you a question about the deaths of Jesus and the Apostles, and whether their demise meant they weren't well liked or convincing to many of those that met them, and whether the bible, written many years after the events it allegedly details, was therefore revisionist.
Care to comment?
Care to comment?
Sorry I didn't answer, you adressed it to southstar. I believe that well liked people are killed sometimes. If a radicle group starts to oppose the current government, they generally can get many people that agree with them, especialy if the current govermnent is more of a dictatorship. These radicles are killed, if caught, even though they're populure with the people.
With the death of the apostles, and many other christians throughout time, I believe that it proves that these people had a strong belief in God, if they are willing to die for him. Christianity has thrived for 2000+ years, despite pursecution. To me, this show there must be some thing special about it. There's a book called "Jesus Freaks" that tells the stories of hundreds of martyrs. Generally people don't die for something worthless.
The Bible was inspired by God, which ment he told these men what to write. In books such as the gospels, and Paul's letters, they are written by people that actually witnessed these things occur, not just wrote 3rd hand accounts of it.
Ummmmm... the text you used was from the bible. So you're using what the bible tells you to claim you know god without any interference from the bible. Lol.
According to who?
Further to that, the same can be said of many other such holy texts - the vedas, the koran, david koresh's writings about the seventh seal, the epic of gilgamesh and so on and so forth. Because they say they were all god inspired, does that make it true? If not, what makes the biblical texts true and the others false?
They had faith. Faith can have worth to someone even if the object of their faith cannot be proven. Indeed, it is part of the nature of faith that it is a kind of leap into the unknown, a trust in something that just resonates with your emotional needs. The question is why do people believe in Jesus. For the most part, I don't think the reason is rigorously proven historical fact. There were Christians for a long time that based their faith only on an inherited narrative, and the credibility of the church heiarchy. It was a need to feel that someone, somewhere, sometime, had a direct connection to a force that controls everything. The reason that this helps people is because most of the time, life seems out of control. If you think events are governed by a devine force, you might not worry so much, you might not even worry about your own death. It is an antidote for fear. Personally, I think it's not a very healthy attitude. It is similar to identifying with other ideals, like a tribe or nation, which can have the same effect.
Why do people have faith at all? Sort and simple, why do people believe in God? because he is real to them. as real as the peson that gave birth to you. People don't believe because they don't see God and thus figure he must not exist.
People think the United States is real, too, but its just because they all share the same idea.
Good, that's a start. Do you think the United States are real? I assume, like many people, that you do. But it exists only in the minds of people, like God. To a bird or butterfly, the border means nothing.