Sure there is at least a middle ground. I'm standing firmly in it. It is "I don't know." (Or agnosticism if you want a fancier word.)
Why do people believe in god?
- Thread starter LuckAse
- Start date
I'm sure you are right about this, but
I think you have this part backwards. - The fundamental and common foundation of 30 or 40 different religions with thousands of followers is the denial of the unpleasant and inescapable fact of death.
The "caricatures" are their surface differences. Silly things like whether or not total emersion in water is required for the ritual called "baptism," is fasting required, does one turn towards Mecca when praying, is pork eating against God's will, must your faith be manifest in "good deeds" etc. for a million other things I know nothing about in Eastern religions. Most people crave and practice rituals, many that have nothing to do with religions*, but all religions are rich with rituals.
Here in Brazil, seeds of certain plants must be planted by the hand of a woman, others when the moon is waxing (never when waning), etc. but in America, it is a sin to kill a mocking bird, and bad luck to walk under a ladder, etc. It is the surface characteristics ("caricatures") which change from one culture or religion to another, but deep down there is a fundamental common foundation / psychological need for these things.
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* For an example of one: Between my wife and me, we take at least 15 different vitamines each morning. I always put them back in the cabinet in a ritualistic way - two rows from front to back with the biggest in the back but more complex than that as there is a specific and different ordering on alternate days (400 IU units of E taken only on odd numbered days, same days as our vitamine D comes for brewers yeast instead of the chemical company, etc. - all coded into the way I order the bottles as I am still half asleep for half an hour when I get up and need this ritualistic ordering of the bottles in the cabinet to get it right while sleepy. The older I get, them more these behavior patterns become ridged.
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What do you mean?
Do you believe that the death of the body is the end of a person - and that this is a fact?
Just what I said: Death is an upleasant, often painful, inescapable fact.
Probably, but I don't know that for fact. - Recall, I'm an agnostic. I do deny "miracles" exist*. I.e. if there is a God, life after death, etc., it makes no difference as to how the world evolves - the physical laws control that.
* The fact that Hitler did not die early of a heart attack pretty much rules out for me the existence of a "Loving God" who occasionally interferers with the natural laws. Or as I noted in recent post that tropical storm Lee flooded thousands of acres bout 300 miles east of the terrible fires in Texas is the most recent example that "loving God," even if existing, does not give a shit about what happens on Earth - The "natural laws" are never interrupted in their actions.
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But how do you think that religious people are trying to escape it?
If anything, mainstream religions try to prepare people for the time of death and the troubles coming with that.
Many Hindus and Buddhists think about their own death every day, for example.
Then how can you say that religious people are in denial about death?
With rare exception of those religious people who claim to be imortal, they don't unrealistically try to escape death's grip. They just want to deny that it is the end of their existence.
I did not say they were denying death. Read first answer above.
Again:
Do you believe that the death of the body is the end of a person - and that this is a fact?
By saying
You contradict your earlier claim that you are an agnostic.
I am sure there were also many people praying for Hitler's health.
Well, perhaps God wants some recognition first before He will intervene.
Perhaps nobody called Him!
Perhaps they only tried to guilt-trip Him into helping!
No you are not making any sense. One statement is about OTHERS and one is about ME.
BTW, on your post 488, I don't think the 16 month old who died in the Texas fires could:
Give God some recognition
Call on God for help
Was having trying to burden God with a "guilt trip" by burning self to death.
Your making less sense with each post. Slow down and think a little before the next reflexive post.
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You are making a claim about them,
about their intentions for their belief in God.
If you are an agnostic and do not know what exactly happens at the death of the body (whether it is an end of a person's existence or not),
then how can you talk about others as if it would be certain that the death of the body is the ultimate end of their existence (and they are in denial about that)?
You said:
(How) do you know that this is what they want?
(How) do you know that the death of the body is the end of existence?
Surely someone could do it on the child's behalf. Perhaps some people hoped the child would die.
on {1}:
Of course I m not certain about what or why others want anything. My statement about THEM, correct or false, does not contradict any statement I make bout MY personnel beliefs - Your statement that is does is illogical nonsense.
on {2}
I have twice already told you both that I have no certain knowledge about the existence or not of any form of life after death AND that I am agnostic, which is just a quick way to state this.
Perhaps you have some strange concept as to what is "death"? Death has been defined for thousands of years.
First by the presence of rigamortus.
Then when mirrors were available sometimes by the body's inability to fog one held near the nose plus the absence of any heart beat that could be heard.
Now with modern technology able to ventilate the lungs, and recovery from many minutes of still hearts, more and more death is defined in terms of no recordable neural activity.
What I am saying is very clear, and I will not for the fourth time repeat it to you: After death I do not know if there is anything but decay of the body or not. There is zero evidence for anything but decay of the body, but as I have several times noted/agreed: The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Unless you learn how to read and understand my clear statements AND cease being so illogical in yours this is my last reply to you.
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God spoke to me.
I prayed one night for God to help me win the lottery this week, i prayed hard, "please lord i am about to lose my house,just once is all i need.."
a week later,i did not win..
so i prayed for three days for God to help me win the lottery,"please lord,can you hear me?"..but did not win..
so maybe he will hear me if i pray everyday, all day, i prayed everyday and all day for a week, "Please am i not worthy of your attention? what must I do to get my prayers answered by you?"
It was then that God spoke to me..he said:
"First you need to go out and buy a lottery ticket,before i can help you"
<Disclaimer..this is a paraphrasing of a joke i heard,and in no way reflects any voices that may or may not be inside my head..>
desire alone is not enough, one must act..
I prayed one night for God to help me win the lottery this week, i prayed hard, "please lord i am about to lose my house,just once is all i need.."
a week later,i did not win..
so i prayed for three days for God to help me win the lottery,"please lord,can you hear me?"..but did not win..
so maybe he will hear me if i pray everyday, all day, i prayed everyday and all day for a week, "Please am i not worthy of your attention? what must I do to get my prayers answered by you?"
It was then that God spoke to me..he said:
"First you need to go out and buy a lottery ticket,before i can help you"
<Disclaimer..this is a paraphrasing of a joke i heard,and in no way reflects any voices that may or may not be inside my head.
.>desire alone is not enough, one must act..
Excellent condescending attitude!
You didn't answer my questions:
BillyT said:
(How) do you know that this is what they want?
(How) do you know that the death of the body is the end of existence?
The death of the brain is the end of existence. Most people don't want to not exist, and so they make up Goddesses and Gods and Heavens and Hells and the more sophisticated make up reincarnations. But, rest assured, when your brain dies, you die. More than likely, no more you - ever.
Because they want to. They're scared of death.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
God spoke to me.
I prayed one night for God to help me win the lottery this week, i prayed hard, "please lord i am about to lose my house,just once is all i need.."
a week later,i did not win..
so i prayed for three days for God to help me win the lottery,"please lord,can you hear me?"..but did not win..
so maybe he will hear me if i pray everyday, all day, i prayed everyday and all day for a week, "Please am i not worthy of your attention? what must I do to get my prayers answered by you?"
It was then that God spoke to me..he said:
"First you need to go out and buy a lottery ticket,before i can help you"
<Disclaimer..this is a paraphrasing of a joke i heard,and in no way reflects any voices that may or may not be inside my head.
desire alone is not enough, one must act..
One must have faith in the Creator to speak to him or for some to hear his word. If your prayer coincide with the Will of God it probably won't happen, but if your happiness directly figures into the outcome of humanity, maybe just maybe he will help you win the lottery.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
There is no evidence to support the opposite.