Why do people believe in god?

Billy T, Do you consider the retina part of the brain? As it's not located in the cranium it would be CNS but not brain? Michael
Yes in my opinion the retina is "brain." I don't have a good definition of what is brain, but if I did it would be alot more complex than just being inside the Cranium.

My definitions of the body's organs tend to have much more to do with their unique functions than where they are located. For example, deep within the brain, mainly on the walls of the third and fourth ventricles (also called the "lateral ventricles") there is some soft pink tissue, called the choroid plexus. It has nothing to do with neural activity. It is the source of the cerebrospinal fluid, CSF which the brain "floats in" (for physical shock protection).

The choroid plexus makes about 1cc of CSF every three minutes which eventually flows down the spinal cord with the Dura sheath containing it until near the end, where the nerves are no longer joined into a "cord" but individually separated. (I forget the Latin name for this end of the spinal nerves, but translated it is "horse's tail" as that is exactly what it looks like.) There are little "pop valves" that release the SCF into the abdominal cavity where eventually it is absorbed into the blood.

I know about all this as APL/JHU where I worked made an implanted insulin pump which ran open loop (Best in the world, IMO - now sold by Medtronics.)- I.e. the user had external device to command how much insulin was released and we wanted to close the loop with a sensor of blood glucose level. I designed a way to do that using the clear SCF and the optical rotation that sugar makes. For adequate signal to noise & accuracy, about a 10 cm optical path was required and that required fusing at least three vertebras so we decided not to suggest that. As far as I know, no-one has made an implantable glucose level sensor that will work for more than a couple of months (Body encapsulates foreign objects it cannot dissolve.) But I digress too much.

The choroid plexus is at the very center of the skull, but no one would call it "brain." The brain processes neural signals, as does the retina. (There is almost a 10 to 1 data compression taking place in the retina. I.e. the number of photo sensitive cells in the retina is about 10 times larger than the number of data channels in the optical nerve. Crudely speaking it is mainly edge detection that is done in the retina but much more complex than just that.)

The retina was once an integral part of the tissue that later becomes "brain" and does the same "complex processing of data" function (plus is a transducer of optical radiation). For these reasons I tend to call it brain as whatever would be my functional definition of "brain" the "complex processing of data" function would be the heart of it and its location would not be. For example, the octopus has eight brains, one at the head of each leg and none (I think) inside its skull. On second thought, there probably is some central processing of the signals from the eyes that then gets sent to the eight leg brains.


BTW, while working closely with several doctors at JHU hospital, including some in the Wilmer eye clinic, I suggested that it might be possible to detect, non-invasively, the early stages of Alzheimer’s disease by careful measurements of the wavelength spectrum reflected by the retina as it was “brain tissue.” They all agree that might be feasible but we had no idea what to look for, no sponsor, etc. and nothing was done. As far as I know there is still no way still to diagnose Alzheimer’s except tissue biopsy (post mortem, usually).
 
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That's what Isaac Newton did. When he finally hit a problem he could not solve, he copped out and said "god must have did it". The old argument from ignorance, I can't understand it therefore god did it. Of course someone else came along later and figured it out, no god needed.

Very interesting take there whippersnapper ! Ask Me this . Do you think Newton saw him self as a Christ figure doing the world justice. Have you ever read any of his religious writings ?
 
Every logical point leads to the fact that there is no god.
that only says that God is not fact.
(God is not alot of things..)

So in my personal opinion anyone who belives in god is ignorant. (Don't take that the wrong way)

ignorant as an ability to ignore information,to actively dismiss information irregardless of whether such info is beneficial to us or not..to dismiss any info related to God, (because of ones own opinion against who/what God is) is ignorant by definition.(don't take that the wrong way)

sorry..not upset..just bored..:D
 
Welcome to atheism! :bravo:

i knew you would think that..
i think i forgot to put in the part that explained that one who bases his decisions solely on facts, misses out on his other needs..
mental,emotional,physical,spiritual..

'facts' only qualify for mental and physical
facts do not always make us 'feel' better,
and 'facts' most definitely does not qualify for spiritual..

IMO

Equal considerations for each of these areas is beneficial to our existence as human beings.

so to say God is not a fact, does not say that God does not exist.
 
so to say God is not a fact, does not say that God does not exist.
That because it isn't seen by them is evidence that it doesn't exist is ego usurping honesty.

Honesty obligates them to admit that they can't believe it because they can't see it not that it doesn't exist because they can't see it.
 
That because it isn't seen by them is evidence that it doesn't exist is ego usurping honesty.

Honesty obligates them to admit that they can't believe it because they can't see it not that it doesn't exist because they can't see it.

I think you simply don't know much about people who don't believe in God.
 
While the absence of evidence for the existence of God is not evidence for the absence or non-existence of God, there is strong evidence that if "Loving God" of the Christins does exist he/she/it is not active in the affairs taking place on Earth.

If that is true, then his/her/its existence or not, is a question of no significance / not important / to life on Earth. I.e. there is strong evidence that God NEVER does anything to make even the slightest difference in what happens on Earth he/she/it so might as well not exist.

God certainly does not answer prayer: At least 100,000 very religious Jews and more than 10,000 Christians prayed several times each day for several years that God would do one simple thing. A thing which would not expose the fact he/she/it existed* as it is something very common that happens dozens of times each hour somewhere in the world, but God did not do it. - Did not answer their prayers. I.e. Hitler did not die of a heart attack.

To put it crudely, but clearly, If God exist, he/she/it does not give a shit about what goes on on Earth. Prayer only helps the one who prays by psychologic effects - not by making any changes on Earth.

For a current example of God not doing anything to help millions when he easily could without exposing his/he/its existence is the path of tropical storm Lee: While Texas goes up in uncontrollable fires -worst in its history, 300 miles to the east, Lee is drowning a few people, flooding thousands of squre miles, and making many at least without homes for a few weeks. -If an all powerful, "Loving God" gave a shit about the welfare of man, Lee would have made land fall on the Texas coast. A 16 month old baby burned to death in the Texas fires - God could have prevented that, but did not.

------------
* Making sure there is no evidence of God's existence seems to be very important to God, if God exists. The wide spread beliefs in some (one of many) forms of life after death most probably is just an example of the very well known and universal psychological mechanism called denial. We all have strong tendency to deny unpleasant and inescapable realities, like death; However, as Pascal noted it doesn’t do much harm to believe things that probably are not true, but conceptually could be as there is no proof that they are not.
 
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It's quite arrogant to assume the creator of the universe is like a man. Of all things to resemble, a man is the least likely.
 
Honesty obligates them to admit that they can't believe it because they can't see it not that it doesn't exist because they can't see it.
You need to get out more. You have no idea how we think.

It is not just that we can't see it. It's because in the five hundred years since science was developed as a systematic and reliable way to find out how the natural universe works, absolutely no respectable evidence has ever been discovered and presented, to support the hypothesis that there is an invisible, illogical supernatural universe, from which creatures and other forces periodically, whimsically, and often angrily, upset the functioning of the natural universe.

All of the so-called "evidence" for the existence of gods, angels, life after death, etc., fall into several categories that cannot be respected:
  • A universe without a god would be horrible, and I don't want to live in a horrible universe, so I believe in god(s).
  • My father and a lot of other really nice people believe in god, and they wouldn't lie to me.[*]My god talks to me. I'm so sorry nobody else can hear him.[*]I just found a tortilla (one of billions) with a burn splotch that looks exactly like the Virgin Mary. Huh? No, I guess there aren't any portraits of her to compare it to, but I just know it's her.[*]The universe is too beautiful to have happened by accident. What do yo mean, animals who appreciate their surroundings will be happier and live longer, dominating the gene pool?[*]There's still a whole lotta stuff that science hasn't figured out. I just know that's because my god did it and he is unknowable. Yeah, genetics and dark matter and plate tectonics were remarkable discoveries, but there's no way they can keep finding out more stuff like that. The universe just has to have some mysteries.[*]A book that was written in the Bronze Age, by people who were about as well-educated as the average member of the Taliban, explains how everything happened. How could it be wrong?
 
... absolutely no respectable evidence has ever been discovered and presented, to support the hypothesis that there is an invisible, illogical supernatural universe, from which creatures and other forces periodically, whimsically, and often angrily, upset the functioning of the natural universe. ...
If Thor does not create and hurl lightning bolt, who does?
 
You need to get out more. You have no idea how we think.

It is not just that we can't see it. It's because in the five hundred years since science was developed as a systematic and reliable way to find out how the natural universe works, absolutely no respectable evidence has ever been discovered and presented, to support the hypothesis that there is an invisible, illogical supernatural universe, from which creatures and other forces periodically, whimsically, and often angrily, upset the functioning of the natural universe.

All of the so-called "evidence" for the existence of gods, angels, life after death, etc., fall into several categories that cannot be respected:
  • A universe without a god would be horrible, and I don't want to live in a horrible universe, so I believe in god(s).
  • My father and a lot of other really nice people believe in god, and they wouldn't lie to me.[*]My god talks to me. I'm so sorry nobody else can hear him.[*]I just found a tortilla (one of billions) with a burn splotch that looks exactly like the Virgin Mary. Huh? No, I guess there aren't any portraits of her to compare it to, but I just know it's her.[*]The universe is too beautiful to have happened by accident. What do yo mean, animals who appreciate their surroundings will be happier and live longer, dominating the gene pool?[*]There's still a whole lotta stuff that science hasn't figured out. I just know that's because my god did it and he is unknowable. Yeah, genetics and dark matter and plate tectonics were remarkable discoveries, but there's no way they can keep finding out more stuff like that. The universe just has to have some mysteries.[*]A book that was written in the Bronze Age, by people who were about as well-educated as the average member of the Taliban, explains how everything happened. How could it be wrong?

I understand that. My point was if atheist would say, for example, that unicorns are "just our imagination" as observable on many threads, I could understand but "God" is a far more powerful aspect of subjectivity. People don't spend a fraction of the energy on unicorns that they do on arguing about God's existence, worrying about how the universe emerged and what their purpose in it is. People don't devote their Sundays to unicorns and insist on marrying someone who shares the same unicorn beliefs that they do. People don't post threads on science discussion forums about whether unicorns are "just imagination" as if it would change things or be some great revelation if they were.
 
I understand that. ... People don't post threads on science discussion forums about whether unicorns are "just imagination" as if it would change things or be some great revelation if they were.
I was not especially impressed with Fraggle's list of reasons why many believe in God either, but what do you think of the "psychological denial" reason presented and discussed in post 468's footnote? I.e.
....The wide spread beliefs in some (one of many) forms of life after death most probably is just an example of the very well known and universal psychological mechanism called denial. We all have strong tendency to deny unpleasant and inescapable realities, like death; However, as Pascal noted it doesn’t do much harm to believe things that probably are not true, but conceptually could be as there is no proof that they are not.
 
I was not especially impressed with Fraggle's list of reasons why many believe in God either, but what do you think of the "psychological denial" reason presented and discussed in post 468's footnote? I.e.
Therein lies the problems between the two. Theists consider that faith virtuous; Atheists consider it intellectually dishonest.

Is it just not possible to find common ground?

What do you think?
 
I was not especially impressed with Fraggle's list of reasons why many believe in God either, but what do you think of the "psychological denial" reason presented and discussed in post 468's footnote? I.e.

I think neither yours nor Fraggle's reasons above are adequate descriptions of why/how people believe in God; they are caricatures at best.
I am sure that people sometimes give such answers; but it would be prudent not to stereotype a person's belief in God simply by a few sentences they utter in a passing conversation.

And surely, there are some people who believe in God as a form of psychological denial; in religion and spirituality, that kind of belief and practice are known as "spiritual/religious addiction and abuse." There are books written on that topic, by spiritual/religious people themselves, who consider that kind of addictive and abusive belief and practice to be deterimental to true spirituality/religion.
 
Therein lies the problems between the two. Theists consider that faith virtuous; Atheists consider it intellectually dishonest.

Is it just not possible to find common ground?

What do you think?

I think there is a lot more to it.

In each instance of human communication, there may be a less or more subtle power play at work, as to who gets the upper hand in the interaction.
This is normal, as persons fear their sense of self and determination could be diminished if they would give in to another.

This is sometimes known as reactance and people who are trying to change others in some way would be prudent to take it into consideration.
 
I think there is a lot more to it.

In each instance of human communication, there may be a less or more subtle power play at work, as to who gets the upper hand in the interaction.
This is normal, as persons fear their sense of self and determination could be diminished if they would give in to another.

This is sometimes known as reactance and people who are trying to change others in some way would be prudent to take it into consideration.
I'm totally in agreement with you on this.
 
I'm totally in agreement with you on this.

I think there is actually very little meaningful space, very few meaningful opportunities to talk about religious//spiritual topics.

Especially nowadays, we seem to take our spirituality/religiousness very cheaply, partly because we are in fact pressured into doing so.

At school, we are taught to practice "critical thinking" - but what "critical thinking" usually means in practice is that we apply the principles of critical thinking without much regard for with whom, where, when, why we are discussing something.

So we often end up talking and thinking about very personal things in less than suitable circumstances.
This has various adverse effects, to the point that we feel alienated from what we believe we believe. Our own spirituality/religiousness can become alien, extraneous to us.
 
"Why do people believe in god?"

God only knows.

I say it is akin to having an imaginary friend. Personal and nutty to any sane person around. Or amusing for those who wish to partake of the ruse. High (interactive) drama.
 
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