Science has never had a major schism.
If one ever occurs, scientific belief will be become a religion.
If one ever occurs, scientific belief will be become a religion.
Why do people believe in god?
- Thread starter LuckAse
- Start date
Well, are our judgments clouded by any biases? We need to check this as often as possible and make sure to stay on top of it.
Who is to say that theists do not do this? I agree that there are a lot of people out there who accept things as truth that are just told to them by those in positions of authority. But I think it is unfair and inaccurate to assume that all theists suffer from this. I'm sure that there are many theists out there who have explored a plethora of options and different ways of thinking. Maybe through their own deductions, they have come to believe in god. Who am I to judge whether their conclusions are inaccurate?
Having no faith, having no rules, and no principles is in itself a set of rules and principles.
Who is to say that it is "burdensome" to them? Maybe they enjoy it. They don't do it because it does nothing for them. Obviously they get something out of it. If it was burdensome, I don't think they would do it. It may look burdensome to me and you, because its not something we would want to do. Just because I don't like something, doesn't mean that everyone on the planet doesn't like it.
Why do you feel a need to state your opinion about your spiritual beliefs and preferences. Obviously it must be important to you. It must make up a large part of you identity. Instead of "being" a nihilist, why not just "be"? Be you first and a nihilist second, or rather than even being a nihilist t all, just be someone who lacks faith?
So someone who is married and in deeply in love and wishes to please their spouse is not free?
Have you done this? Are you actively doing this? You can't possibly state that your ears are open to other ideas if you do not actively seek them out through any and every means available. You've already labeled yourself as a nihilist, which means you have ascribed to something, and limited your understanding of the world to this one form of understanding.
All Christians do this? I know many Christians who don't take the bible as literal. They believe in Christ, but they also understand that the bible is old and was written in a time when symbolism was much more prominent. Granted, some Christians do as you say. And that is unfortunate.
I enjoy talking with you. Your a smart man! I hope we can keep this up. I'll be in and out throughout the day.
S
science man
Guest
In answer to the topic's question I say yes they can believe in god because it gives us an answer to how we were created. If you read my thread having to do with creation and the theory of evolution, I discovered that a person can believe n both the theory of evolution and creation because the theory of evolution only goes back so far. It doesn't how we were put on earth only how we were formed from that point on.
Im not understanding what your saying here...
don't let others tell you what god does and doesn't do or did..they don't know
don't let others tell you what god does and doesn't do or did..they don't know
Jean-PierreChatelain
Registered Member
Earthlings believe in god because they are taught to do so by their parents and teachers from a young age. We are told that the bible is the word of god when in fact it is the word of the roman catholic church who wrote the bible.
We are now all gods, for we see all things for what they truely are. If we hadn't seen anything for what it truely is, we wouldn't have seen anything. Hence we see for real and only gods can do that. We can only see if we have a factor on the positive plain, and if we do we see all things for what they are. If we didn't have a factor one, we saw nothing.
Gods I tell you!
Gods I tell you!
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Jung teaches us about archetypes, motifs that show up in nearly every culture in nearly every era. This universality suggests that these motifs are instincts, manifestations of pre-programmed synapses in our brains. Religions are collections of archetypes, most of which are based upon belief in the supernatural.
As evidence continues to amass that explains natural phenomena without recourse to interference by external supernatural forces and creatures, and as the justification for faith in the supernatural fades away, the persistence of religion clearly supports its origin in instinct rather than in reasoned and learned behavior based upon observation and experience.
Jung did not live long enough to integrate DNA analysis with psychology. Today we see instincts as behaviors (including thoughts) which are passed down genetically. Some instincts are obviously survival traits passed down by natural selection. For example, anyone without the instinct to flee from a large animal with both eyes in front of its face would be unlikely to live long enough to reproduce so his genes would die out. Indeed virtually all vertebrates are born with this instinct: a newborn gazelle will run from a lion but ignore the presence of a giraffe, with no prompting from its mother.
Other instincts are not immediately fathomable, but yield to study. Most cultures have a tradition of putting boys through a rite of passage, in which an elder of the tribe inflicts pain. Episcopal priests slap the boy, fraternity initiations do far worse. This is most likely a ritual going back to the Paleolithic Era, in which a man might have to endure pain in order to bring down a prey animal and feed the tribe. Or perhaps to a more recent era in which tribes made war against each other and warriors had to continue fighting even when wounded. Army basic training--a modern rite of passage--certainly supports the latter hypothesis.
But some instincts defy analysis. At this point we have to respect the phenomenon of the genetic bottleneck. When a single individual becomes the only member of his or her species whose descendants survive, certain portions of his or her DNA will be passed down to all of them forever.
Our species has gone through two genetic bottlenecks. Mitochondrial Eve, who lived about 200KYA, is the female ancestor of all living humans. (That doesn't mean she was the only woman alive, merely that the descendants of all other women died out.) Since the mitochondria in our cells is passed down exclusively from our mother, a small but complete piece of mtEve's DNA lives in all of us--subject of course to mutation. Y-Chromosome Adam lived about 60KYA, shortly before the diaspora out of Africa. Only males have a Y-chromosome, so YcAdam's DNA lives in every man on the planet.
Since belief in the supernatural is not confined to one sex, it appears that it goes back to our common female ancestor. Belief in God is, therefore, an instinct that is at least 200,000 years old.
Again, mutations do take place, and 10,000 generations is plenty of time for several to have occured. Both of my parents and both of my mother's grandparents were raised without religion, and none of them had an "epiphany" later in life, begging God's forgiveness for doubting him. The same is true of me. I didn't even know what religion was until I was about seven, and when a kid told me about it I assumed it was just one of those funny stories kids like to make up; I couldn't understand why he got angry when I rolled on the ground with laughter at his immensely clever, amusing and preposterous joke.
For five people in one bloodline to resist the instinct to believe in the supernatural is a small statistical probability. It's rather likely that we simply lack the DNA and don't have the instinct in our synapses.
Unfortunately we were never a close family so I don't know enough about my aunts and uncles to know whether they too lacked this instinct. Unlike my parents, every one of them married someone who was not an atheist, so they all attended church services; I have no idea if they were sincere. And I have no siblings to compare notes with.
I have no children. If when I was younger I had realized that I might be carrying a crucially important gene, I might have overcome my reluctance and become a father.
I'm not sure how you want people to take it. Fortunately this website is a haven for science so we are free to insult religion and religious communities. Just be sure not to insult any individuals because personal insults are a violation of the rules, regardless of their validity.
In any case, I think you're being a little hard on the rank and file of religionists. Most of them, especially in less developed nations, are not well enough educated to know that there is no respectable evidence for religion, or even that evidence should be required to support a belief. I suppose you may call them "ignorant," but they may have all the knowledge that was made available to them so that seems unnecessarily unkind.
The people who deserve our wrath are the educated ones who lead their communities, and allow religion to be promulgated. And for them, "ignorance" just doesn't seem like a strong enough word.
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Me, speaking for this god, thinks that the prestadium of godhood is precious and essential to make the best of worlds for all. Even though the prestadium sees not what truely is, nor thereby see anything. They are precious so I want them.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
That certainly sounds like instinct speaking, rather than reasoning and learning.
Q.E.D.
Why would a god of true seing ever bother reasoning and learning when everything is so excellent?
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Is it fair to say Q.E.D. twice in a row?
I know I'm bias, I try not to but i do it subconsciously.
Yes its not true that all of them are that way. When I'm talking about this I'm talking about your crazy "Everything is a lie unless its in the bible" type people. Who there are a lot of in this world. I don't have a problem with these people (there are quite a few in my family actually).
You could say that. As long as no idiot stands up and says he is the pope of the nihilists. :roflmao:
Ya i get this. Ignorance is bliss may have something to do with it. Sometimes I feel bad for people who dedicate there lives to god, But then i waste my life doing things just as meaningless, so its a double edged sword.
Thats like if i asked a Christian why don't they call them selfs god-fearing lunatic. Its just a title, its meaningless.
And the reason i state that i am one is because, i don't like being preached to. Its like my shield of ignorance.
I guess you could say that, but they were free when the choose to be with that person. So if they are no longer free, it was there choice.
I have done this, actively? No. My ears are open, if someone says they have proof that the bible is not a collection of lies, i would listen. But no one is stupid enough to claim that. I feel that science has disproved a majority of the bible. Some parts may be the truth just stretched and altered.
No they aren't all that foolish, and I'm glad.
I enjoy talking as well.
As long as no crazy christian soccer moms get on here. :bugeye:
I don't know much about psychology, and drugs effect on the brains. But many cultures used drugs as a way to "Meet there gods" or "seek council"
Earthlings? Really?
But yes most people are thought there believes by the ones who came before them. Its been that way since roman times.
I believe in God. I take everything else with a grain of salt. My belief in God comes from my rational mind- it was not something hammered into my head since I was a kid because I dismissed almost all religions and the dogmas they carry early on in my life.
I believe that God cannot be described in words so all religions sooner or later fall flat. But God persists.
As Fraggle touched on, I believe the predisposition to believe in the mythology common to your tribe is adaptive; it helped with the social cohesion necessary for groups of humans to survive in hostile environments. Humans most deadly enemies have usually been other groups of humans, and the tribe that stuck together survived. Accepting that the mysteries of life were adequately explained by the god(s) your tribe believed in allowed you to fight bravely in battle (god is with you, and a better place awaits if you die), and in general freed your mind from excessive brooding about the meaning of it all, and instead concentrate on the business of surviving, and raising the next generation to do the same.
Just as sickle call anemia was a selected advantage against malaria that has become more of a disadvantage in a different time and place, so I think the human tendency to follow charismatic leaders, and demand dogmatic certainty have outlived their usefulness. But that doesn't mean they will just go away. We are stuck with them for the foreseeable future.
Just as sickle call anemia was a selected advantage against malaria that has become more of a disadvantage in a different time and place, so I think the human tendency to follow charismatic leaders, and demand dogmatic certainty have outlived their usefulness. But that doesn't mean they will just go away. We are stuck with them for the foreseeable future.
What is your concept of god? Does the god you believe in care about the fate of humans? Or is it a distant, impersonal god?
I'm a strong atheist when it comes to anthropomorphic gods such as the Greek and Roman gods. But I can admit that there might be some purpose to the universe (I certainly cannot prove that there isn't) I'm just unaware of any good reason to think so, or to think we might know what it is. A god that physically resembles us, only with superpowers, seems laughably unlikely to be anything other than an egocentric creation from the fevered imaginations of near prehistoric humans.
So do you retract your statement that all people who believe in god are ignorant?
That is funny. But you would be surprised how many religions don't have an equivalent to a pope. One I know of for certain is Jehovahs Witnesses. There was a Kingdom Hall (J.W. church) just down the street from where I grew up, and I knew and went to school with a few of them and worked with one. They have no central authority, no ruling elite so to speak. Even the individual Halls don't have ministers. All of the congregation is involved. People take turns every week doing the sermon. But they are not obliged to. Every person decides their own level of involvement. While I disagree with many of their tenets, I have always liked this approach to religion.
Well again, your assuming that they are all ignorant. You agreed above that many of them do actively seek out something on their own accord and decide to join something that makes sense to them. I don't think that what they are doing is meaningless. It obviously has meaning to them.
They don't call themselves this because it is inaccurate. And its ot how they see themselves.
I can accept that. Though part of the reason that I NEVER tell people about my spiritual beliefs is because others (particularly Christians) tend to see it as their duty to preach to non-believers. I hate being preached to. But I find that Christians are far less likely to proselytize if I don't tell them a single word about who or what I am. Tell them you are an atheist, or nihilist, and they feel it is their duty to "save" you.
Your not ignorant son
Whose to say that theists weren't free when they decided to be theists?
Does your statement mean that you will never allow yourself to fall in love? If people who are trying to please god or please a spouse are not free, then I am to conclude that they are "slaves". But one could argue that someone who does not want to please a god, or please a spouse or be in love for that matter is a slave to loneliness or emptiness.
Supporting evidence? Can you at least give a few examples? From what I understand, much of it doesn't seem to match up. But archaeological studies have found some things that do match up. But I guess I really can't comment cause I don't have any support for this.
Excellent!
Bring them! I would love to have this same conversation but with someone on the other side.
Is it fair to say that your sympathy bears no consequence?
I am still a god of true sight; I do see reality, else I wouldn't for instance be able to shy and delight, and live with nothing but my environment. People need to speak to the betrayer over and over again. Well I loath betrayal and do not communicate with them once I know that I am truely betrayed, nor did I think that many were good. So I don't communicate with them, but I still feel no loss, for I can truely see, and there is no greater comfort.
Pretty much. Well when I said it wasn't saying they were ignorant in the traditional sense. I just personally believe that there is absolutely no proof of gods existence. But then again its pretty much impossible to disprove god ether.
I don't see why they would need a leader, god is there leader in there eyes, correct?
If something has meaning to that person, it may not have meaning to another. So to me religion is pointless, and to them listening to slayer while driving 100mph in a school zone is pointless. ( I don't do that, just thinking of example is making my head hurt.)
That was me god-bashing again, i tell you i do it subconsciously!
I'll admit that im not a very "good" person.
But i find it entertaining to be labeled as a heathen in there eyes.
Heathen is not a good word, it literately means non Christan....Boring
Too put it short, i enjoy being labeled as a heretic.
People check into mental institutions right?
True, Freedom is not really something that can be described.
There is not one piece of evidence that supports that god exists. (or doesn't exist)
Personally i don't doubt that Jesus was real. (Only he was a man) He was most likely real, the stories are most likely just totally inaccurate by the time they were written the bible.
Ya bring on the conquistadors.
I was once in your position. At a younger age, my family never forced religion on me, but i was curious. I read pieces of the bible, researched various religions, tried to learn about religion as a whole.
I came too my own personal conclusion that religion as a whole is a bunch of crap.
Thats how i came to be like you. Still believing in god, but not any single religion.
Then something happened, i don't know what, but i just don't believe in god, it seams crazy to me. Just outright crazy.
No one can be all seeing and all knowing, its against the laws of physics.
According to all the states of matter and what the universe is made up of, only organic life is capable of thought (True thought, something that A.I. will never attain) There for there there is no god. But this is my personal thought not an argument to try to convert anyone.
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M*W: Let me guess... you're 22 years old?