Why Do Muslims Hate the West?

[Norsefire]

Since you are one.

You're very stubborn, aren't you?

I suppose we'll just have to cut them where they stand, then, as violence is obviously their sole purpose. So much for the religion of peace, according to an ex-Muslim?

All of them? And is violence their sole purpose, for all of them? That's quite a foolish view of things. And I never claimed Islam was the "religion of peace".

Considering that atheists have done absolutely nothing to Muslims and Christians have constantly warred with Muslims, the hatred must have something to do with Islam itself?

Many Muslims don't hate Christians. I used to be an Alawi, and in fact Christians and Jews, we considered fellow believers and friends. The Muslims that might hate Christians would be the Sunnis. Funny how they make up most of the radicals.

Not all, but far less than the ME and the US.

Certainly. However, I don't think we can call Europe post-Christian just yet.

Is that why their messages are identical to one another?

Yes.

 

[(Q)]

You're very stubborn, aren't you?

I'm not easily fooled by liars and charlatans.

All of them? And is violence their sole purpose, for all of them? That's quite a foolish view of things.

I'm going by your statement, hence you are the fool.

And I never claimed Islam was the "religion of peace".

Really Norse, I'm quite tired of having to go back into your posts and demonstrate you're lying, again.

Yes.

I see, so you think the message of the god of Abraham is identical to all Christians, Muslims and Jews, even though, as a Muslim, you want to see all Jews heads on lances?

You really are quite the idiot, Norse.

 

[Norsefire]

I'm not easily fooled by liars and charlatans.

That is good, neither am I. However, as Master Confucius said, the gentleman can recognize a liar without being apprehensive about them.

I'm going by your statement, hence you are the fool.

Which statement?

Really Norse, I'm quite tired of having to go back into your posts and demonstrate you're lying, again.

Going back into my posts wouldn't accomplish anything, since my opinions have changed. Regardless, I don't recall saying Islam was the religion of peace and if I did, well whatever. I don't think religions are about peace or war, but rather they are beliefs, and peace and war can result from them.

I see, so you think the message of the god of Abraham is identical to all Christians, Muslims and Jews, even though, as a Muslim, you want to see all Jews heads on lances?

Are you blind?

Anyway, Jews are fellow Semites and I wouldn't want such a thing.

 

[(Q)]

I don't recall saying Islam was the religion of peace and if I did, well whatever.

Yeah, whatever, we'll just ignore everything you say as you clearly don't recall any of it yourself, anyways.

I don't think religions are about peace or war, but rather they are beliefs, and peace and war can result from them.

You haven't read any religious scriptures, so you don't know.

Are you blind?

No, but you are stupid.

Anyway, Jews are fellow Semites and I wouldn't want such a thing.

Until you get them at arms length?

 

[Norsefire]

Yeah, whatever, we'll just ignore everything you say as you clearly don't recall any of it yourself, anyways.

No, but it is you that wants to bring things up I said ages ago, and try to pass them off as my current opinion, when they clearly aren't.

You haven't read any religious scriptures, so you don't know.

The Koran talks of Jihad. It doesn't say " you have to go be violent". Not all violence is unjustified. Not all killing is wrong. Self defense, capital punishment, etc, those are justified.

Now I'm not saying Muslims have never done bad things, but they don't have to be violent.

No, but you are stupid.

You're illiterate, apparantly.

 

[(Q)]

No, but it is you that wants to bring things up I said ages ago, and try to pass them off as my current opinion, when they clearly aren't.

Still playing the role of bold-faced liar, I see.

The Koran talks of Jihad. It doesn't say " you have to go be violent". Not all violence is unjustified. Not all killing is wrong. Self defense, capital punishment, etc, those are justified.

Yes, we all know the capacity of Islam to be twisted and exploited to serve the ends to the violent means of your medieval and vicious cult.

Now I'm not saying Muslims have never done bad things, but they don't have to be violent.

Unfortunately, that doesn't mean a damn thing to Islamic clerics who will use whatever means are available, violent or otherwise.

You're illiterate, apparantly.

Yes, of course, but I can spell "apparently."

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Is your head always screwed on at a 25-degree angle? Form the majority of your posts, it sure seems that way.
QUOTE]

Absurd blathering.

Sure, the U.S. has done many things that none of us are proud of but you paint everthing with TOO broad a brush as if every American was guilty of all those various charges.
QUOTE]

That statement of yours is 1 of the best possible examples of broad generalizations and quite a puffed up strawman.

Incidentally, haven't many other nations done things just as bad AND even worse???

I need more time to properly respond to just as bad & even worse.
I can't think of any nation that hasn't done horrible things to its natives & others. When I see those being whitewashed, I might respond accordingly.
The USA is 1 of the few worst, 1 of the most powerful, the most absurdly hypocritical & the 1 which tries the most to be the great teacher, preacher, judge & police of the world. And 1 of the few, if not the, worst stick my nose (and guns) where it does not belong.
Then again maybe I don't need more time.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Norsefire --- Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the one same God.

====Triangles, spheres & cubes are the same shape.

 

[Norsefire]

Norsefire --- Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the one same God.

====Triangles, spheres & cubes are the same shape.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all Abrahamic, and share many common prophets and characters

 

[Balerion]

I think a couple people have already mentioned this, so I'll just throw my hat in here as well; Western society is pretty much the antithesis of Islamic culture. I'm sure there are different reasons this is a problem for Muslim leaders...some might see it as a threat because the potential influence Western society could have on their subjects; others might honestly believe the rhetoric that the West is full of infidels that Allah commands must be killed; and yet others might see that Western governments will always push for democratic societies rather than military or religious despots.

Regardless, the people in the Middle East that hate us do so because of the propaganda they are fed by their criminal leaders.

 

[(Q)]

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all Abrahamic, and share many common prophets and characters

:bravo:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-contradictions-refuted.htm

 

[Tiassa]

It's a political thing, (Q)

It's more political than anything else.

The Muslim encounter with “the West” in the 19th and 20th centuries was most intimately experienced through European conquests of Muslim lands which facilitated Western political, economic, social and cultural domination of the daily lives of the Muslims. By the end of World War I, there were only four Muslim nations—Afghanistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Yemen—which had not experienced direct or indirect European rule.

European expansion, which began in the 17th century through the search for markets and natural resources, was by the 19th century enhanced through an ideological support system based on the teachings of social Darwinism: “natural selection” and the “survival of the fittest.” This gave European man “scientific” proof of his being the acme of human evolution and of his civilization being the final state in human achievement and progress.

Colonialism was justified on “humanitarian” grounds. Its purpose was to share the enlightenment and its achievements with those of inferior development. The colonial conquests were thus cloaked in the image of the European man’s “manifest destiny” which would lead the rest of humanity to become a replica of European man and to enjoy the benefits of the institutions he devised.

• • •​

Europeans considered Muslim political institutions as antiquarian and obsolete. Throughout the 19th century various Western powers exerted pressure on local governments to liberalize their institutions. This included at times political, economic and military pressures to adopt changes in their policies as well as to incorporate Western “democratic” principles in their government.

Western arrogance was finally sanctioned by the Versailles Treaty (1919), which implied that Arab nations were unfit to govern themselves. International agreements had promised the independence and autonomy of the Arabs in return for their rebellion against the Muslim Turks, their fellow religionists. Despite these promises, the European powers devised the mandate system which carved up the Ottoman Empire into several states to be ruled directly by Britain and France. This was justified as a “civilizing” mission. In effect, Arab countries were assured that they would become beneficiaries of the European enlightenment which would help bring them into the 20th century by developing their political, economic and social institutions after Western models. This was to prepare them to assume responsibility for themselves once they had learned how to emulate the Europeans.

• • •​

Reformism was further inculcated through the establishment of public education to prepare civil servants for the colonies. Students learned about the benefits of the Western system and were encouraged to promote them. European textbooks were adopted. Years later, the author heard an Arab, educated in Palestine, describe his first visit to London. “There was nothing strange about the place. I recognized it immediately. To my surprise I found out that I still remembered the names of all the subway stations!” With bitterness he added, “I was never taught the names of the cities and towns in Palestine.”

• • •​

It was not until the 19th century that Muslims found it necessary to reinterpret their religion in response to the Christian challenge—this time in the form of the evangelical Protestant. Many of the missionaries from Europe and the United States sought fervently to convert Muslims to Christianity by undermining the religion of Islam, its teachings and its prophet. Several missionary texts refer to Islam as the religion of the “anti-Christ” or “Satan.” The Prophet Muhammad was pictured as either unwittingly or through calumny the deceiver, or the deceived one, the agent of Satan, fabricating the Koran to lead people astray. While this literature was mainly for the missionaries, it soon found its way into the public domain. To these missionaries, the validation of Christianity was evident through its power, its superior civilization and its humanitarian doctrines that liberate men from bondage to anything save Christ. Islam was portrayed as an inferior religion because of its supposed notion of predestination which was leading to indolence and an affirmation of the bliss awaiting the believers in the hereafter. In this way, Islam itself was presented as the central cause for the retardation of the Muslims.

• • •​

It had become evident for some time that although the Arab countries had constitutions and elected parliaments, these institutions were not effective. Some Western observers have blamed the failure of the parliamentary systems on the alien nature of consultative democracy to the Arab mind. Clearly their failure was also hastened by the attitude of the colonial rulers towards such institutions. Whenever foreign governments or their representatives disliked what the democratically elected deputies decided, they tried to countermand their wishes by a variety of means such as seeking their dismissal or applying relentless direct pressure, blackmail or bribery. When Arab governments attempted to use European law to assure freedom and the implementation of the will of the people, it was these same colonial rulers who ridiculed them and treated them as upstarts.

(Haddad)

Yvonne Haddad's article, "The Islamic Alternative", considers the progression of Muslim peoples from the collapse of the Ottoman empire to the latter twentieth-century:

In Pakistan, Zia Ul-Haqq, upon assuming office, aligned himself with the Jamaati Islam and attempted to implement Islamic laws. Other nations, including Turkey, Egypt, Kuwait, Libya, Bangladesh, the Sudan and Indonesia, introduced various Islamic laws. Syria found it necessary to explain that Baath ideology is grounded in Islam, while Ja’far al-Numeiry of the Sudan has written a book justifying Islamic government, entitled The Islamic System: Why?

(ibid)

The story of Islam and the West since the collapse of the Ottoman empire has been one of exploitation and denigration. The twenty-first century, so obsessed now with the effects of radicalism purportedly justified by Islamic principles, sees the fruits of that exploitation and denigration, offers us the results of blindly looking away from what was happening in plain sight. We could have seen this coming, but it would have meant admitting Western nations made certain mistakes. And, well, that simply won't happen until well after whatever avoidable tragedy has taken place, if it ever happens at all.

"Why do Muslims hate the West"? The answer is more political than anything else. It is found in history. And it is obvious to anyone who looks.
___________________

Notes:

Haddad, Yvonne Y. "The Islamic Alternative". The Link v. 15, n. 4. September-October, 1982. http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=120&aid=163

 

[Zakariya04]

I

Regardless, the people in the Middle East that hate us do so because of the propaganda they are fed by their criminal leaders.

and a lot of them criminal leaders , eg Mubarak of Egypt and the fuckas who are the house of saud are massively backed by the west!!!

but you are right it is bullshit propaganda, either religious or pollitical which sets the enviornment of hate, and this enviornment only helps the fucked up political and or religious leaders of this world, whoc create this enviornment..

 

[Balerion]

and a lot of them criminal leaders , eg Mubarak of Egypt and the fuckas who are the house of saud are massively backed by the west!!!

but you are right it is bullshit propaganda, either religious or pollitical which sets the enviornment of hate, and this enviornment only helps the fucked up political and or religious leaders of this world, whoc create this enviornment..

I didn't say the West was any better.

 

[(Q)]

It's more political than anything else.


"Why do Muslims hate the West"? The answer is more political than anything else. It is found in history. And it is obvious to anyone who looks.

Islam and politics are interwoven, one driving the other, it must be so, as with everything else in those societies, lead by Islam.

And it is obvious to anyone who looks.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Can it happen with Christians in the US?

 

[Read-Only]

Is your head always screwed on at a 25-degree angle? Form the majority of your posts, it sure seems that way.
QUOTE]

Absurd blathering.

Sure, the U.S. has done many things that none of us are proud of but you paint everthing with TOO broad a brush as if every American was guilty of all those various charges.
QUOTE]

That statement of yours is 1 of the best possible examples of broad generalizations and quite a puffed up strawman.



I need more time to properly respond to just as bad & even worse.
I can't think of any nation that hasn't done horrible things to its natives & others. When I see those being whitewashed, I might respond accordingly.
The USA is 1 of the few worst, 1 of the most powerful, the most absurdly hypocritical & the 1 which tries the most to be the great teacher, preacher, judge & police of the world. And 1 of the few, if not the, worst stick my nose (and guns) where it does not belong.
Then again maybe I don't need more time.

I see. Yet another with a deep, inbred hatred and jealously of the U.S.

Welcome to the club of S.A.M.

 

[Adstar]

* Because America alone (and the little America in the Middle East, Israel) prevents the expansion of Islamic rule?

i don't think so. jihad is being waged in southern russia, south east asia, central africa and in india, in most cases the devout muslims are not on the retreat but are on the attack. And the usa and isreal are doing very little to halt these expansions. The existance of isreal is a fact that runs counter to the jihadists view of their destiny to establish a global islamic state. So it's continued existence is a challenge to their faith. All muslims who are true to the teachings of the quran will seek to support the elimination of the modern state of isreal. Any peace agreement will only be a temporary tactic of jihad.

* Because expansionist totalitarian movements, whether Soviet communism or radical Islam, always hate free societies, and America is the strongest free society?

A free society has never existed. There are authorities who grant their citizens more privileges than others. This is sometimes gives their citizens the illusion of freedom. But given the right circumstances the authorities in these supposedly free societies can withdraw many of these privileges as they deem necessary.

The basic structure of democracy being one person one vote, will never be supported and will always be resisted by true muslims. In any land controlled by islam, muslims must dominate and rule other minorities and not only dominate and rule they must ensure that their minorities know that they are subservient and suppressed. Establishing the western concept of democracy (one person one vote) would give a muslim’s Christian or hindu neighbour equal power in the political process. This runs counter to the quran and therefore the establishment of democracy must be resisted with all available force all true muslims can muster.

* Because America is not only strong, it is religious (as opposed to Europe, which is weak and irreligious)?

On the average the authorities in the US are less flexible and give less ground to the demands of outside forces, while over recent history the european authorities have been far more willing to bend to the demands of outside forces. The European authorities have relied on the US authorities to resist, therefore reaping the rewards of US resistance while not paying the same political cost of that resistance.

* Because America is not only Christian; it is Judeo-Christian, the two religions the Islamists need to overcome to expand globally?

There is no such thing as a true Christian state and there never has been. But yes islam must overcome and make subservient the Judeo-Christian religions and all societies not subservient to the quran. This is the call of jihad and until islam is established as the authority over the entire world jihad must be waged by all true muslims.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Zakariya04]

I didn't say the West was any better.

i know.. i didnt think you were....

but to be fair and i have stressed this before i would much rather live in the west then over in a so called muslim country.. Because in the west (well the mighty UK anyway) i am more free to practice my religion should i choose too.!!

 

[Atopos]

Muslims don't hate the west.
Muslims ate the west.
Ok this joke sucks. Now, seriously:
The muslim countries that hate the west (for example Turkey is all for entering european union) are mainly those America occupied (Iraq, and let's not forget Afghanistan!) or that generally are poor, dictatorships. People live dressed in rags and with barely any drinkable water, and they get the impression (remember, they have mostly no internet anf newspapers and such) that US/western world is populated by christians (partly true) who want to conquer them and use their oil (true) and who bathe in wealth (not so true unfortunately) exploiting third world countries (true).
So, with this ideas, why not hating the western world? I think anyways it is mostly due to religious leaders propaganda.

- Europe is not christian and weak? Hey, wait a minute! We are almost as Christian as US - we have the pope himself, don't we? - and the fact that we do not attack middle east countries for fun doesn't make europe any weaker. I am in fact proud of the fact that we are not highly militarized.
Besides, British, Spanish (not anymore) and Italian troops are there together with USA soldiers.