Why do Americans still dislike atheists?

"sacrifice the present for the future"
And that's exactly why a society of theists is fucked. This means driving huge SUVs is good, living beyond the carrying capacity of the Earth is fine, and guess what, these people get divorced as much as atheists.
 
The God of the Old Testament
(Imagined)

Of all my rotten luck, The God of the Old Testament
Appeared and proclaimed, “I am Yahweh, never absent,
For, those schooled from infancy in My strange ways
Have become desensitized to MY horrific side
And so they continue to keep Me very much alive
Through their thoughts; so, Fire away at Me;
I no longer bite that hard, you see.”

“You’re too easy of a target to attack for free—
So it would be rather unfair of me.”

“True, and I won’t deny it—
It’s all there in the Testament.
I was the most unpleasant character
That anyone ever made up in literary fiction.

“I was revealed to be jealous and proud of it,
Petty, unjust, controlling, vindictive,
An ethic cleanser, genocidal, infanticidal,
Filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal,
Homophobic, misogynistic, sadomasochistic,
And much more, and a Bully—who gave it
Free will only if it matched My own Will.”

“Peace be with you.
How about the New Testament
To replace and hide Your scent,
As many religions have already
Done through Jesus sent?”

“Yes, that Testament is quite opposite in tone,
But I am still the Father of Jesus sown,
So, the problem of Me can never really go away.
I am what I was, still here unto the present day.”

“Well, so long. You’re the worst role model, yet,
That human mammals have ever dreamed up.
Who would imitate, emulate,
Or follow You as a ‘leader’?”

“Well, My followers are those numerous slaves
Who excuse my mysterious [insane] ways,
Along with my exclusive desert tribe.”

“Well, You’re the Boss, and, anyway,
Who ever said that a God had to be perfect and good?”

“Everyone that I told—and those who thought I should.”

“Oh well, never mind; whatever pleases.
So, um, Joseph was not
The biological father of Jesus?”

“No, I was.”

“So Jesus didn’t really descend from David?”

“That was on his mother’s side.”

“Well, my ancestors descended from the trees.
Hey, why don’t Catholics get the 72 virgins
That Islam gives for martyrdom for their sins?”

“I told each religious faith a different story.”

“You also gave a bible half-different
To the Mormon founder,
Joseph Smith, finely engraved
On golden plates he discovered?”

“Sure. I thought at the time ‘why not’.”

“You had Islam add different things
To their Koran, as well?”

“Yes of the many more ways to avoid Hell.”

“And You told only the Catholics
That there were umpteen levels of angels
And that bread was your body
And that wine was your blood?”

“Yep, I told just them and a few other selves,
But they made up the Saints themselves.”

“And You presented differing visions
To the Lutherans,
The Episcopals, and the Jewish,
And to many other also-rans?”

“Pretty much, except that a King of England
Founded the Episcopals—the Anglicans, of course,
Since his own religion wouldn’t give him a divorce.”

“And you killed everyone but Noah
And his family in the Great Flood, wet,
Even young children and their pets?”

“Sure, again, why not? Life is cheap.
However, My creation of the rainbow
Says that I’ll never be so cruel again.
What can I say—I goofed. My sin.”

“But You are infallible, and even omniscient
And so You know all of the future meant.”

“My omnipotence of changing my mind got in the way.”

“But your omniscience knew you would… one day.”

“Yeah, I know—it’s a paradox; oh, the strife.
And I can still technically end all life
By means other than a flood.”

“You burned people in Hell, not saved,
When they didn’t follow
The unfree will that you gave?”

“Yes, because I was not a loving God.”

“Well. God, who made You?”
“No problem—either I was Eternal or I made Myself be”

“This is remarkably the same, but for Thee,
As the Universal ingredients would be.”

“Then who would need me—wait,
I don’t want the answer told.”

“Is the Earth only about 4000 years old?”

“Of course not, but I may have let that slip to some
To tease their intelligence apart from being dumb.”

“Do you mind-read
The thoughts of every human,
Using all of your acumen,
And write the earthly script
For each event,
Being so omnipresent?”

“I tried that, at first, but it didn’t work for Me
To put my finger on every atom that be
And micromanage its doings for all of thee.”

“That’s called ‘God’s Will’, by some, even now.
What went wrong? Was it the where and how?”

“It disrupted the atoms’ normal & natural movements.”

“And that’s what caused the storms unfocused,
The lightning bolts, and the plagues of locusts?”

“Yes, so I stopped making such a mess of things.”

“So, the prayers of six million Jews, pleaded,
In the holocaust, went all unheeded?”

“Yes, plus I have better things to do, my sooth,
Than look after some old experiment of Mine
From my misspent youth.”

“Did you really make Adam and Eve
And all of Earth and Nature, as we believe?”

“Yes, I made Nature,
Including the humans, in My image.”

“It shows in their rage.”

“Thank you.”

“God, it’s ID deja-vu all over again—
I really have to move on.”

“No, wait. I like your questions.
I’m mellower now, this being My new direction.
Not as many strictly admit to Me anymore.”

“How come so many of the gospels were omitted
From the New Catholic Testament,
Like those of Thomas, Peter, Nicodemus,
Philip, Bartholomew, and more,
As well as whole books kept from us,
Although You told some other religions to keep them,
Such as the Book of Revelations?”

“Those gospels were embarrassing and wild;
They told about My Son doing magic tricks
And practical jokes on people when He was a child.”

“Oh, we never heard much about his youth.
And didn’t You send the Mormons proof
That Jesus spent an early era
In what was to become America?”

“Probably.”

“What about the trillions of galaxies in the sky?”

“They’re just for show and scenery on high.”

“Where’s all your rantings and ravings
That I’ve heard about?”

“I now take Prozac for My mood swings and bouts.”

“You don’t really exist, do You, as mental,
For how could You have an emotional system—
A composite—and still be absolute and fundamental?”

“No, I don’t exist, for how could I since I am so horrible?
Human mammals made all of Me up
As a very bad example,
As it turned out, from their many fears
In the childhood of their species’ years.
Unfortunately, it caught on to their children’s ears.”

“So, yet You still subsist
In this indefinite locus of wishes?”

“Yes, sort of.
I am sustained here since many children
Have learned to obey and listen
To what is/was told to them,
For this obeying was an
Evolutionarily useful thing,
As many of their obedience
Resulted from warnings of things
That were truly dangerous,
And so the children grew up
To indoctrinate their own children
In all the ‘knowledge’.”

“We’ll have to offer more reason
To those so indoctrinated.
Now farewell to You, the impersonated.”

“See you. Pay no attention to Me as certain,
But to all those blinded by the curtain.”

He soon dozed off into never land.​
 
Can we treat religion the same way? Please??? Especially the Abrahamic varieties? Abrahamic communities rise up in paroxysms of violence every three or four generations and cause so much harm that it's virtually impossible to even put a dollar value on it!

How much can we bill the Pope and his minions for totally obliterating the Aztec and Inca civilizations? To the point of actually burning the "heathen" Aztec libraries and melting down the "pagan" Inca art, so they lost their own histories and we only know a tiny fraction of them? What are all those lost ideas, images, stories, and ways of seeing the world worth?

How about the millennium and a half of violent antisemitism that virtually defined European Christendom, culminating in a very earnest effort to completely exterminate them?

Or the hundred years of non-stop war between the various sects of Christianity that we now euphemistically call "the Reformation?"

How about what the Jews are currently doing to the Palestinians and Bedouins? (I'm not sure there are any Muslims on this thread so I'll leave them out of it, and Rastafarianism is still in its honeymoon period so they're all about love and peace.)

You pay your taxes and then we'll talk about mine!

This is what I don't get about religious folks. I despise religion and the net unspeakable evil it promulgates so much that sometimes I just stand up and scream. But I don't for one second harbor thoughts of killing people or destroying their culture!

"Illuminati ti ti ti Seceret Society do Exist"
 
But theres only one God? If you had the power to create would you create others who could undermine you? No you would not.

There are Theities and Deities, meaning interfering and non-interfering Gods, plus many specializations of these.


INTO THE LANDS OF ALL THE GODS

Into the realm of supernatural figmentations
I drifted off, within my newest imagination.
To interview all the ‘living’ Gods there;
Some who’ve left and some yet ruling everywhere.

Notions of ‘God’ are of the wide purview
Of the inquiring mind confined, their ‘why’—
That wide expanse of fables, faith, hoaxes,
Lies, imaginations, fictions, guesses,

Foggy notions, concoctions, phantasms,
Fantasies, falsehoods, conceptions,
Decrees, fiats, misrepresentations,
Dead ideas, magic, proclamations,
Wild tales, anecdotes, revelations,
Untruths, revelations, hearsay, scrap heaps,
Yarns, and fish stories stated as beliefs
In that unseeable supernatural station
Through faith’s without knowledge ration;
These are all figmentations of the imagination.

Strewn about this great panoramic realm
Of the One possibly conceivable at the helm
Are all of the unknowable fabrications
Often Dreamt up via exaggerations
By the human race of mammal sapiens.

The realm of such Pronouncements has come to be
Superposed at the furthest edge of Reality,
Poised by the scope of some wishful thinking,
By all those dreaming and wild supposing,
Who wish for such legends to be ever
Actualized and realized; however,
These ideas have never ever made it
Into our observable realistic habitat in any way,
They but remaining in the minds, joint,
Of the God-beholders—
Even as varying viewpoints.

Without so much much as a word to say,
I passed those to whom most no longer pray,
Nor believe in, but once did, namely,
Those of the graveyard tombstones now so unholy:

Astrology—the God of the Stars that plod,
Eternally blazed and marbled in the sod,
The monuments of Diana the Moon God,
Apollo the Sun God , Baal, Zeus, Wotan,
Aphrodite, Thor, Mithras, Isis, Amon,
Poseidon, the Druid Gods, and on and on, anon.

I ever hurried past the ledgering
Of those older Mythologies preceding
The formation of the Old Testament story—
Those ancient superstitions whose very
And various olden amalgamations
Came forth to form it whole for our salvation.

I paused at that Old Testament maligned,
To mark the old but lingering lines
Of the ‘knowing’ of more invisibles,
The beliefs in imagined angelic creatures…

There were Angels standing, frozen in stone,
Over the timeworn memorials’ poems,
And atop the crumbling gateposts,
They being the livelier and near-living ghosts
Of the representations of the three spheres
Of the heavenly host: the demigod-near
Seraphims, Cherubims, Ophanims,
Thrones, Principalities, Dominions,
Powers, Archangels, Angels, and, those final,
And perhaps the most useful—the Guardian Angels
That are said to protect children from falls.
There, Amaranth, its dead red leaves never
Ever fading on this Earth unto forever,
Gave some color around the graveyard pallor
And to the dateless headstones’ squalor.

There’s a garish purplish maroon view, on high,
Of streaking lights of an electromagnetic sky,
Heretofore never imagined by my self;
I strolled on and into the vale itself.

Every-thing, every order happens for a reason?
Yes, for the most part, for most seasons,
But not for the bottommost cause the first,
For there was nothing before it to reason it forth.​
 
The real issue here, as telegraphed by the NYT article, is not so much what is officially going on, but what is going on unofficially. Again, that's not what the commenter was claiming or implying. The ex-J.A.G. guy who's on a mission to right this unofficial wrong may be, like many who are on a mission, a bit skewed in his perception of things. He's convinced that many cases go "unreported". That's all well and good; but like the tree that falls in the forest with no one hearing it, one needs proof.

Ok, that's understandable. Allegations and suspicions can't be used as a basis for definitive conclusions or actions, but they should at minimum warrant a more detailed investigation to determine their veracity.
 
The real issue here, as telegraphed by the NYT article, is not so much what is officially going on, but what is going on unofficially.

I agree.

I don't think that the US military has any official policy of discrimination against non-Christian personnel. The system doesn't seem to care very much what a person's religion is (or isn't), provided that unit cohesion and effectiveness are maintained.

I know that they survey the forces about what their religious needs are and have been actively recruiting non-Christian chaplains (both commissioned chaplains and civilian volunteers) to meet the needs of an increasingly diverse force. I'm sure that atheists and agnostics are viewed in pretty much the same way.

But I also think that there are a few individuals within the military, typically fundies, who care very much what their fellow soldiers believe. So if a non-Christian soldier finds him or herself under the command of a militant religious superior, that individual might experience some unofficial discrimination on occasion.

The military tries to keep a lid on that kind of behavior, but it's going to be hard to document in many cases, since it can be subtle.
 
What does all that bull have to do with


Why do Americans still dislike atheists?

Atheist , bull shit more then a then a goat
 
So if a non-Christian soldier finds him or herself under the command of a militant religious superior, that individual might experience some unofficial discrimination on occasion.

God forbid..he may be forced to pray..:rolleyes:
 
Sociologist Gregory Paul and Pitzer College sociology professor Phil Zuckerman pose this question in the April 29 Washington Post. They point out that while America has gotten over its disrespect for Afro-Americans and Jews and is even becoming more civil to homosexuals, our people still don't like atheists very much. We're considered immoral, wicked and angry; we can't join the Boy Scouts; in the military we are rated as potentially deficient in our psychological evaluations; despite the constitutional ban on religious tests for public office, most Americans are reluctant to vote for a non-believer--much less marry one.

This discrimination is rarely mentioned by the mainstream media. Christian conservatives loudly proclaim that our lack of belief in an invisible, illogical supernatural universe whose denizens capriciously and often cruelly interfere with the behavior of the natural universe is detrimental to society, in effect declaring us second-class citizens.

Yet social research reveals that not only is this knee-jerk antipathy toward atheists unwarranted, but that we could be role models for the rest of you. According to sources that are cited in the article:
  • On basic questions of morality and human decency--issues such as governmental use of torture, the death penalty, punitive hitting of children, racism, sexism, homophobia, antisemitism, environmental degradation or human rights--the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious.
  • At the societal level, murder rates are far lower in secularized nations such as Japan or Sweden than they are in the much more religious United States, which also has a much greater portion of its population in prison.
  • Even within this country, states with the highest levels of church attendance, such as Louisiana and Mississippi, have significantly higher murder rates than far less religious states such as Vermont and Oregon.
  • As individuals, atheists tend to score high on measures of intelligence, especially verbal ability and scientific literacy.
  • We tend to raise our children to solve problems rationally, to make up their own minds when it comes to existential questions and to obey the golden rule.
  • We are more likely to practice safe sex than the strongly religious are, and are less likely to be nationalistic or ethnocentric.
  • We place greater value on freedom of thought.
  • While we appear to not fare as well as the religious when it comes to certain indicators of mental health or subjective well-being, new scholarship suggests that this correlation is more complex. For example, Denmark, one of the least religious countries in the history of the world, consistently rates as the happiest of nations. Apostates report feeling happier, better and liberated in their post-religious lives.
  • Some studies suggest that suicide rates are higher among the non-religious. But surveys can be misleading because they count the undecided agnostics as non-religious fence-sitters, whereas true atheists tend to do about as well as believers.
  • On numerous respected measures of societal success—rates of poverty, teenage pregnancy, abortion, STDs, obesity, drug use and crime, as well as economics, high levels of secularity are consistently correlated with positive outcomes in First World nations.
  • None of the secular advanced democracies suffers from the combined social ills seen here in Christian America.
Despite this bigotry, the number of American non-theists has tripled as a proportion of the general population since the 1960s. Yhe younger generations have less tolerance for the endless disputes of religion than their elders.

American atheists have the same reluctance to be candid with pollsters as gay Americans do, but surveys designed to overcome this have estimated that as many as sixty million Americans, one-fifth of the population, are not believers.

Fraggle,

The answer to your question is that theism is an ingrained in the identity of most Americans. Atheists pose a direct challenge to their identities which is often psychologically interpreted as an attempt to kill them. So, in short American theists hate American atheists because they think American atheists are trying to kill them.
 
That would be a violation of the rights he is fighting for. That's nothing to make light of. :bugeye:

my point was more of it doesn't take any effort to pray..(as opposed to making them clean the latrine)
 
God forbid..he may be forced to pray..:rolleyes:

If God existed, I'd hope that he would forbid it. Yes.

(I'm very surprised that you wrote that.)

Here's the thing --

Freedom of religion applies in the military, just as it does in the rest of American life.

It's a vitally important principle, one that's basic to who we are as Americans, and it's something that can't and mustn't be shrugged off with a smug and arrogant sneer.

If you believe that you, as a Christian, have any right to practice your own religion in this country, then other people need to have equal right to practice theirs. Or to practice no religion at all, if that's their choice.

That's a big reason why millions of people from minority and dissenting religious sects from all around the world moved to this country in the 18'th, 19'th and 20'th centuries. Because they hoped and they trusted that religious majorities wouldn't persecute them here.

The freedom of conscience that they sought is one of things that the United States military exists to protect.
 
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If God has the attributes that the believers cite, such as omnipotent, creator, no material manifestation, invisible, beyond all, and unexplainable .... how do they explain Him to themselves ?
 
If God has the attributes that the believers cite, such as omnipotent, creator, no material manifestation, invisible, beyond all, and unexplainable .... how do they explain Him to themselves ?

God will always exist, even if it be only in my mind.
 
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