Why Did Omniscient God Need to Create?

[Enmos]

well yeah, but maybe more absurd than illogical

Kind of like saying a person can only prove themself as multi billionaire if they live in a card board box and don't buy anything

Oh, I thought God wasn't bound by logic?

 

[lightgigantic]

I will not be fooled by this attempt to change the subject back to me as I have seen you do several times.

kind of a tough ask since you've been on this kooky tangent about the relevancy of any discourse that might come from your greatness

I am a declared atheist. I don't speak of God ever.

atheism without a notion of god to base itself on ... certainly a novel concept ....

If it sounds like it then you as a theist must disregard it. What everybody is waiting for is for you to start speaking of Him, so quit fucking around and give us some good God candy to chew on.

seems like you already have a few all-day gob stoppers in your mouth in the name of your atheism

Maybe you can start by telling us why it makes sense to create something when you know it won't be any different than just after you dreamed it. God doesn't need prototypes, does He?

If you ever made your favorite meal and it turned out just as you anticipated, you can already answer that.
:shrug:

 

[lightgigantic]

Oh, I thought God wasn't bound by logic?

Inasmuch as there may be elements of logic that an adult is bound to that remain incomprehensible to the logic that a three year old can muster.

 

[Enmos]

Inasmuch as there may be elements of logic that an adult is bound to that remain incomprehensible to the logic that a three year old can muster.

Did you just make that up?

 

[lightgigantic]

I see you trust other people's experience and your interpretation of it.
How far does this go? Is there a point where you won't settle for other people's experience and your interpretation of it, and will instead demand to experience it yourself, or nothing?
What do you do if you want to experience something, but are not able to (not within a foreseeable time)?

come to think of it I have had similar experiences. As a kid we used to have sand fights at the beach or mud fights at the river ..... but they were always short lived since the granules would never form into neat balls and would scatter like buckshot that would inevitable get in some one's eyes.

Allright, that makes sense.

"Fixated on retaining one's potency" - I know this from sports, for example. In order to stay fit, I had to train very hard, it occupied my mind a lot, and I was always very selective whom I associated with in terms of sports, and on what terms. There is that peculiar tendency to keep certain information to oneself, such as titles of books that deal with explaining some training or dieting principles. Also very selective about whom I would train or compete with.
Of course, the better one gets, the more one is willing to share and be flexible, but there always seem to be limits to this.

sure
and despite the best plan making, it goes
:bawl:

However, I can't imagine ever being completely free from such worries, or how can there be an exchange between people that is free from such worries.

I guess it arises from having a clear picture of self hood that is not affected by such dilemmas as inevitable and irreplaceable loss

I meant that people who are into mystic have the tendency to give pseudo-metaphysical lectures when something practical or doable is needed. They'll give you one shoe when you need two, and if you point this out, they'll pontificate on how one shoe is enough.
(I'm using the word "mystic" in a very broad sense.)

that's more of a mental speculator or rhetorical philosopher.

 

[lightgigantic]

Did you just make that up?

not really.

If you are talking of comparing lesser and greater entities, it should be clear that their individual estimations of logic and capacity are vastly different.

Adults and three year olds are simply an easily approachable example (in the sense that an adult has a greater mental, emotional, social and intellectual capacity ... which all combine to a broader sense of logic)

 

[Enmos]

If you are talking of comparing lesser and greater entities, it should be clear that their individual estimations of logic and capacity are vastly different.

And how would you know that the greater entity has a superior sense of logic to yourself?

 

[lightgigantic]

And how would you know that the greater entity has a superior sense of logic to yourself?

if they are greater, why would it be equal or less?

 

[wynn]

sure
and despite the best plan making, it goes

Yes, it goes. Esp. professional athletes make plans in advance for the time when they won't be able to compete anymore and when they will come down with serious injures. (Such as professional players of American football setting aside funds for extensive knee surgery and pain medication already at the beginning of their career.)
To me, it seems every endeavor is like that - one has to think ahead and prepare in some way or another that the thing one now so loves will someday stop being pleasurable or worthy. I actually think the same foresight of boredom or insufficiency is necessary also in matters of religion or spirituality. I hope I am wrong, but I am afraid I am not.

I guess it arises from having a clear picture of self hood that is not affected by such dilemmas as inevitable and irreplaceable loss

How can one come to have such a picture?

 

[Enmos]

if they are greater, why would it be equal or less?

:bugeye:
We are talking about greater regarding logical capacity, not regarding anything else, at the moment.
So my question could just as well be phrased: "How do you know the entity is greater?"

 

[lightgigantic]

:bugeye:
We are talking about greater regarding logical capacity, not regarding anything else, at the moment.

and I pointed out that a greater sense of intellect, emotion, socialization combine for a greater sense of logic (as exemplified through comparing three year olds and adults,

IOW what is considered logical for a three year old is considerably less than what is considered logical for an adult (as opposed to being merely different)

So my question could just as well be phrased: "How do you know the entity is greater?"

By noting their prowess in the above mentioned fields

 

[Enmos]

and I pointed out that a greater sense of intellect, emotion, socialization combine for a greater sense of logic (as exemplified through comparing three year olds and adults,

IOW what is considered logical for a three year old is considerably less than what is considered logical for an adult (as opposed to being merely different)


By noting their prowess in the above mentioned fields

So how does a three year old know that the adult has a greater sense of logic?
We only know that as adults (or at least at a significantly higher age than three).
To someone with a lesser sense of logic the things a being with a much higher sense of logic postulates sounds as nonsense.
Unless, of course, they blindly believe him for whatever reason. They cannot check whether or not the being is correct. To them he is wrong. Get it?

 

[draqon]

lightgigantic...before civilizations are created, before warriors are bound for war...laws and rules are created. The logic of our world exists because of laws laid out by God. Before God, before the cycle of the universe began this logic did not hold true, there were no rules to be bound to.

there was chaos​

 

[lightgigantic]

So how does a three year old know that the adult has a greater sense of logic?

by noting the before mentioned qualities .. or if that fails, witnessing them being able to defy one's logic.

We only know that as adults (or at least at a significantly higher age than three).

arguably the verya ct of ruminating on the question might require being decked out with a few basics of the qualities

To someone with a lesser sense of logic the things a being with a much higher sense of logic postulates sounds as nonsense.

sure, but once they begin to entertain the general principles it becomes easier.
Many famous examples there in history of the same sort of phenomena bypassing a person at a crucial moment.

"[To Robert Fulton:] What, sir, would you make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck? I pray you excuse me. I have no time to listen to such nonsense."
-- Napoleon I

Unless, of course, they blindly believe him for whatever reason. They cannot check whether or not the being is correct. To them he is wrong. Get it?

An integral aspect of the checking part lies in application. I mean Napoleon obviosuly thought he had checked enough burning hulls to give his conclusion.

 

[lightgigantic]

lightgigantic...before civilizations are created, before warriors are bound for war...laws and rules are created. The logic of our world exists because of laws laid out by God. Before God, before the cycle of the universe began this logic did not hold true, there were no rules to be bound to.

there was chaos​

then you work out of the premise that god is a temporal potency of the material manifestation ... which is the exact opposite of any scriptural reference.

 

[draqon]

then you work out of the premise that god is a temporal potency of the material manifestation ... which is the exact opposite of any scriptural reference.

I never did agree to religions.

 

[lightgigantic]

I never did agree to religions.

... obviously

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If you ever made your favorite meal and it turned out just as you anticipated, you can already answer that.:shrug:

Is meal a metaphor for God? Can I see the prototype?

 

[lightgigantic]

Is meal a metaphor for God? Can I see the prototype?

huh?

I thought we were discussing how fulfilled anticipation equates with dreariness

 

[Enmos]

An integral aspect of the checking part lies in application. I mean Napoleon obviosuly thought he had checked enough burning hulls to give his conclusion.

What application? lol