Why Did Omniscient God Need to Create?

[pperez6902]

The time has come

I would respond to all blogs before the last; but, unfortunately
I cannot type that fast.

I have a manuscript that will propel the study of biosemiotics in to the next century as it relates to signs, (signals) and the common known forces of post universal design; where cosmic repition and resonance is the focus. I have infomation that some one may be able to use. I will submit my first blog in a few short days.


I found out about Sci by researching the web regarding information on grants for books about the study of biosemiotics. I am interested in using your site, please contact me if you are able to guide me in networking.

Pamela Perez
815-505-6055
Infinity Design in Rockford, IL

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

You do, you silly! :bawl:
It's the basis of all your reasoning.

First off I don't pretend to know any incomprehensible Gods or anything beyond my understanding. Secondly, I don't worship any gods. Thirdly I have been downgraded to silly from idiot in this one thread alone....I'm progressing.

Furthermore, you know nothing about me. Does that make me incomprehensible to you? What do you know about God other than what you expect Him to be? Am I, on the other end of this keyboard, in a similar situation for you? All you can say is that you believe there is another human responding to your post. You would have good reason to but if we were to take the incomprehensible angle then there is a chance, albeit a infinitely remote chance that I am not human, nor of this world.

In fact, because all you really know of me can be placed on the surface of any elementary cosmic particle, I could be omniscient. You don't understand my logic? How does an incomprehensible omniscient entity communicate to those who don't understand? Simple, he knows how and you don't.

That is the basis of my reasoning. No two beliefs, religions, whatever, are the same. If omniscience brings with it the knowhow for communication with those who can't comprehend you then why isn't there one global religion? We can't blame ourselves as this only serves to protect God from deserved criticism... because saying it and doing it are two different things. God has not conveyed His message in an fashion that is uniform & understandable, He simply cannot do it and for a God that should know how, this is a failure. Failure coupled with loss of omniscience is what has put God into the Realm of the Unknowable, the inter-dimensional celestial doghouse.

I didn't put Him there, theists did. Geez it wasn't too long ago that God was just up there on a mountaintop. My how times change. Personally I hope theists keep moving Him around. Can you imagine if some day we discover other universes and find a way in, then God would once again be nowhere to be found. Where will God go then?

The urge or need to create beings that won't comprehend you is indeed a mystery. It's the theist way of indirectly saying, "Folks, we are on our own here." I await the first 'free will' advocate's response.

 

[lightgigantic]

I wouldn't specifically use 'omniscience' as the factor with which to frame the question. Rather 'perfection'.

Nothing exists apart from god, (total absolute perfection). Nothing follows from that. Everything is absolutely undeniably perfect as it is - creation of anything is a worthless concept.

then I guess the next q is "perfect for what?", since the very notion of perfection is that its tied to the values of an individual/society/community etc.

 

[lightgigantic]

First off I don't pretend to know any incomprehensible Gods or anything beyond my understanding. .

Then why make the assertion "God is incomprehensible (to all persons in all times and places)"?
Why not qualify the statement by saying its you who cannot understand it, rather than deeming that everyone else is the same boat as yourself?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Then why make the assertion "God is incomprehensible (to all persons in all times and places)"?
Why not qualify the statement by saying its you who cannot understand it, rather than deeming that everyone else is the same boat as yourself?

No. I think God should. I admit I don't pretend to know...take that admission any way you want.

If God was comprehensible then we wouldn't be having this disagreement.

 

[lightgigantic]

No. I think God should.

God should what?

I admit I don't pretend to know...take that admission any way you want.

I don't have a problem with your admission.

What I do have a problem with is your extrapolating your limited experience to all circumstances.

If God was comprehensible then we wouldn't be having this disagreement.

huh?
Kind of like saying if science was comprehensible no one would flunk an exam on it

 

[wynn]

First off I don't pretend to know any incomprehensible Gods or anything beyond my understanding. Secondly, I don't worship any gods. Thirdly I have been downgraded to silly from idiot in this one thread alone....I'm progressing.

Furthermore, you know nothing about me. Does that make me incomprehensible to you? What do you know about God other than what you expect Him to be? Am I, on the other end of this keyboard, in a similar situation for you? All you can say is that you believe there is another human responding to your post. You would have good reason to but if we were to take the incomprehensible angle then there is a chance, albeit a infinitely remote chance that I am not human, nor of this world.

In fact, because all you really know of me can be placed on the surface of any elementary cosmic particle, I could be omniscient. You don't understand my logic? How does an incomprehensible omniscient entity communicate to those who don't understand? Simple, he knows how and you don't.

That is the basis of my reasoning. No two beliefs, religions, whatever, are the same. If omniscience brings with it the knowhow for communication with those who can't comprehend you then why isn't there one global religion? We can't blame ourselves as this only serves to protect God from deserved criticism... because saying it and doing it are two different things. God has not conveyed His message in an fashion that is uniform & understandable, He simply cannot do it and for a God that should know how, this is a failure. Failure coupled with loss of omniscience is what has put God into the Realm of the Unknowable, the inter-dimensional celestial doghouse.

I didn't put Him there, theists did. Geez it wasn't too long ago that God was just up there on a mountaintop. My how times change. Personally I hope theists keep moving Him around. Can you imagine if some day we discover other universes and find a way in, then God would once again be nowhere to be found. Where will God go then?

The urge or need to create beings that won't comprehend you is indeed a mystery. It's the theist way of indirectly saying, "Folks, we are on our own here." I await the first 'free will' advocate's response.

From what you are saying, it appears to me that your core assumption is this:

Without knowing everything about a phenomenon, we cannot know anything about said phenomenon.

Yes?

 

[Forceman]

The problem with labeling names and attributions to God (like location and nature) is that humans are very subjective beings. Psychotic episode, out of all people, should know that observing a quantum state destroys the quantum particle (leave subjectivity to altering information). Misconception comes about because of oral transmissions and added BS from the Chinese, for example, who's philosophy "is" going to usher in a one-world religion (believe conspiracy or not). Take, for example, the fact that Buddhists and Hindus now embrace God, The Source as a Supreme Being, pagans recognize this God, and Christians are embracing Eastern philosophy (contradicting your statement about a global religion not being). Finally, God is everywhere literally (if you can believe that based on the existence of at least 10 dimensions) and His existence in space doesn't contradict His existence on Earth, which didn't contradict His existence in the underworld. By the way, this a religion thread, and I don't think Psychotic Episode has the credentials to rant on the genius' theology.

Sticking to objectivity, we have written records of some Supreme Being transmitting information to a people of early Palestine. Did I want this to happen? (I wasn't around). It just happened and historians have mapped the history of these Israelites quite well. Think about the subjectivity of atheism as well and how dedicated atheist/humanists are to disproving God. If a genius would just ignore the subject all-along, then one could label atheists and humanists as idiots as well- which they are, of course.

Final point, science is eventually going to have to "objectively" prove the existence of other worlds, a possible deity, and, dare I say, an afterlife and the consciousness's survival after physical death. Psychology is trying to do that...

 

[Dywyddyr]

Finally, God is everywhere literally

Assumption.

and I don't think Psychotic Episode has the credentials to rant on the genius' theology.

Really? And your credentials would be...?

Sticking to objectivity, we have written records of some Supreme Being transmitting information to a people of early Palestine.

Um, no. As you yourself stated "humans are very subjective beings": what we have is written accounts of what they believed/ claimed to have happened (that's if you leave out total fabrication, of course).

Think about the subjectivity of atheism as well and how dedicated atheist/humanists are to disproving God.

Wrong: they aren't looking to disprove god, they're asking "what proof is there?"

If a genius would just ignore the subject all-along, then one could label atheists and humanists as idiots as well- which they are, of course.

Ooh! Nasty digs, I'm hurt.

Final point, science is eventually going to have to "objectively" prove the existence of other worlds

We HAVE proven other worlds exist. Ever seen Mars?

a possible deity

Why would science want to prove god's existence?

dare I say, an afterlife and the consciousness's survival after physical death.

Why would science want to "prove" either of those?

Psychology is trying to do that...

No it isn't.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

By the way, this a religion thread, and I don't think Psychotic Episode has the credentials to rant on the genius' theology.

Genius' theology is the oxymoron of all time. LG or yourself, who is it?

 

[X-Man2]

First off I don't pretend to know any incomprehensible Gods or anything beyond my understanding. Secondly, I don't worship any gods. Thirdly I have been downgraded to silly from idiot in this one thread alone....I'm progressing.

Furthermore, you know nothing about me. Does that make me incomprehensible to you? What do you know about God other than what you expect Him to be? Am I, on the other end of this keyboard, in a similar situation for you? All you can say is that you believe there is another human responding to your post. You would have good reason to but if we were to take the incomprehensible angle then there is a chance, albeit a infinitely remote chance that I am not human, nor of this world.

In fact, because all you really know of me can be placed on the surface of any elementary cosmic particle, I could be omniscient. You don't understand my logic? How does an incomprehensible omniscient entity communicate to those who don't understand? Simple, he knows how and you don't.

That is the basis of my reasoning. No two beliefs, religions, whatever, are the same. If omniscience brings with it the knowhow for communication with those who can't comprehend you then why isn't there one global religion? We can't blame ourselves as this only serves to protect God from deserved criticism... because saying it and doing it are two different things. God has not conveyed His message in an fashion that is uniform & understandable, He simply cannot do it and for a God that should know how, this is a failure. Failure coupled with loss of omniscience is what has put God into the Realm of the Unknowable, the inter-dimensional celestial doghouse.

I didn't put Him there, theists did. Geez it wasn't too long ago that God was just up there on a mountaintop. My how times change. Personally I hope theists keep moving Him around. Can you imagine if some day we discover other universes and find a way in, then God would once again be nowhere to be found. Where will God go then?

The urge or need to create beings that won't comprehend you is indeed a mystery. It's the theist way of indirectly saying, "Folks, we are on our own here." I await the first 'free will' advocate's response.

# 1 Great write-up PsychoticEpisode!

 

[scorpius]

From "Bible" book of God states that our porpuse here is to praise God and his creation. Therefore God created us and the universe for the reason of being acknowledged and loved for his act of good will.

What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect.
If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be.
If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.

from
http://www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

 

[Forceman]

My theory is that as long as God has existed, the universe has existed (just without matter), and so the Supreme Being might have thought to himself, "What would the universe look like with stuff in it, with beings other than Myself?" and so He actually thought up angels and various spiritual words to model the physical after.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

My theory is that as long as God has existed, the universe has existed (just without matter), and so the Supreme Being might have thought to himself, "What would the universe look like with stuff in it, with beings other than Myself?" and so He actually thought up angels and various spiritual words to model the physical after.

So much for the omniscience factor

 

[scifes]

starting from 219, and ending with;
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2432539&postcount=275

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

As I said in the debunking thread, If God knows all then He doesn't need to be here. If you believe omniscient God set things in motion then why care?

What is the point of creating if you already know what's going to happen if you do? It's totally redundant and unnecessary. If you are a divine creation then you're only a manifested thought.

 

[scifes]

As I said in the debunking thread, If God knows all then He doesn't need to be here. If you believe omniscient God set things in motion then why care?

why not

What is the point of creating if you already know what's going to happen if you do? It's totally redundant and unnecessary. If you are a divine creation then you're only a manifested thought.

idk, yit's unnecessary in a matter of "need", but that doesn't stop god from doing whatever he feels like, like i said to sarkus.

i.e, if it was you you might've not done it, but you can't blame who does it either, it's just....doing as you like, no..."reason"..you have no reason, you just feel like it..
look, it's hard to..., just read me and sarkus's conversation, and tell me what you think of it.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If you're omniscient then is there anything for you to do? You're not going to learn something new by doing it. What's the point in creating? If you're a creation of an omniscient being then you really have a total purpose of zero.

 

[lightgigantic]

If you're omniscient then is there anything for you to do? You're not going to learn something new by doing it. What's the point in creating? If you're a creation of an omniscient being then you really have a total purpose of zero.

Its not clear what inextricable connection you are drawing between knowing something and making the pursuit of the experience of it redundant.

I mean a more perfect picture of purposelessness is if the only reason one pursues anything in life is simply because they run the risk of not knowing whether they will achieve it.
:shrug:

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Its not clear what inextricable connection you are drawing between knowing something and making the pursuit of the experience of it redundant.

I mean a more perfect picture of purposelessness is if the only reason one pursues anything in life is simply because they run the risk of not knowing whether they will achieve it.
:shrug:

If you think you have a purpose then by all means go for it. Any creations designed by an omniscient God would simply mimic His thoughts. For the creator you do have a purpose......How's it feel to be part of a diorama? For the created there is no true purpose to life unless you count acting out the creator's thoughts as something significant but remember that is all you do. Whether God thinks it and then creates you to live it...makes no difference to God. As an individual, your life serves no purpose and is meaningless. There is more to life if God is out of the picture.

I feel I'm treading on the debunking thread so I'll leave it at that. Go ahead LG.