Why did God divide the people of Babel?

[Greatest I am]

You seem to have a very narrow perspective. If people with differences in belief are not discussing their faiths, how do you have Christians Muslims and Jews Hindus Buddhists in all corners of the globe? Why aren't there Jews only in Judea, Christians only in Nazareth, Buddhists only in Bihar and Hindus and pagans only in the tribes they came from? And why are there sects in those religions? But even within sects, they rarely discuss similarities, they more often discuss differences.

The very fact that ex-Muslims want to discuss religion with Muslims should tell you that. I used to frequent a board run by ex-Muslims and most of the members stop after some time because there is only so much time you can spend discussing what you don't like about religion with people who don't like religion

You have me at a disadvantage with your anecdotal rendering.
Perhaps they are arguing the minutia of scriptures instead of their moral applications.

I can only ask again.

Have you seen many Christians and Muslims debating and discussing anything to any kind of conclusion where one will change his mind about a piece of his theology?

If so, I hope you kept a link to this wondrous event.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Its not a threat its a ultimatum, you can not live dead in the kingdom of Heaven if you do not follow the word of God on earth. You are the one in delusion from my point of view.

So a decision or choice with an ultimatum is free choice.

I am beginning to think you are a Muslim masquerading as a Christian to discredit them.
Christians cannot think well but you are exceeding their usual.
Say hi to Allah for me.

Regards
DL

 

[S.A.M.]

You have me at a disadvantage with your anecdotal rendering.
Perhaps they are arguing the minutia of scriptures instead of their moral applications.

I can only ask again.

Have you seen many Christians and Muslims debating and discussing anything to any kind of conclusion where one will change his mind about a piece of his theology?

If so, I hope you kept a link to this wondrous event.

Regards
DL

Yeah, I've met many in the religion forum. I've personally witnessed one person reiterating their return to religion and another one abandoning it. But even if I had not, I would not need personal anecdotes to recognise that religions do not spread by magic dust.

Also, you may not have noticed this, but you are personally engaged in religious debate with people who are not of your religious persuasion. I don't see why anyone has to change their stance through discussion, if you recall, the original claim is only about knowing others, not adopting their beliefs

 

[S.A.M.]

fixed

Yes, that is a good example of how personal interpretation of the written word can be used to fit any personal stance, regardless of what the words actually say

 

[Enmos]

Yes, that is a good example of how personal interpretation of the written word can be used to fit any personal stance, regardless of what the words actually say

Well, isn't that the actual result?

 

[S.A.M.]

Well, isn't that the actual result?

Refer to belief vs action, already described. But yeah, its interesting how that pans out. See how "Greatest I am" interpreted the verse, apparently, to know others is equal to conversion of your or their faith. So it would seem that what is written is less important than what people read into it.

 

[wynn]

Yeah, I've met many in the religion forum. I've personally witnessed one person reiterating their return to religion and another one abandoning it. But even if I had not, I would not need personal anecdotes to recognise that religions do not spread by magic dust.

Also, you may not have noticed this, but you are personally engaged in religious debate with people who are not of your religious persuasion. I don't see why anyone has to change their stance through discussion, if you recall, the original claim is only about knowing others, not adopting their beliefs

Then why discuss, if not to change oneself or other?

 

[wynn]

So it would seem that what is written is less important than what people read into it.

That there is something that is "that which is actually written" and that then there is "that which people read into it" is a truistic dichotomy impossible to carry out in practice.

We cannot but read into what we read.

 

[S.A.M.]

Then why discuss, if not to change oneself or other?

Why do people discuss anything? Its because every additional opinion adds to the body of knowledge. One way to destroy any civilisation is to destroy every single piece of written work about it and ban those who are living from teaching about it. When you wipe out the collated opinions of all people on a subject that subject no longer exists. So why discuss religion? Interest is one reason, confusion or uncertainly is another, a desire to learn could be a third.

There is a religious monograph called Fitna e Takfir written by Mawdoodi who is a conservative religious scholar which goes:

In the period of the decline of the Muslims, among the many troubles that have arisen, one serious and dangerous mischief is that of declaring one another as kafir and wrong-doer, and cursing one another. People introduced cracks within the plain and simple creed of Islam, and by means of inference and interpretation they created from them such branches and details as were mutually contradictory, and which were not explained in the Quran and Sunna, and even if these were, then God and His Prophet had not given them any importance. Then these servants of God (may God forgive them) gave so much importance to their own invented side-issues that they made them the criteria for faith, and on the basis of these they tore Islam to pieces, and made numerous sects, each sect calling every other as kafir, wrong-doer, misguided, doomed to hell, and God knows what. Whereas God in His clear Book had drawn a plain line of distinction between kufr and Islam, and had not given anyone the right to have discretion to declare anything he wants as kufr and anything he wants as Islam. Whether the cause of this mischief is narrow-mindedness with good intentions, or selfishness, envy and self-seeking with malevolent intentions, the fact remains that probably nothing else has done the Muslims as much harm as this has done.

But I think the above can be summed up in fewer words, "differences in opinion are not as relevant as similarities in belief" because it seems to me that it is the nature of people to neglect similarities and exaggerate differences.

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

Me-Ki, have you faith?

beyond faith bro . I say it and it happens . My word is my bond . I spent my life sneaking up on it . It was faith in the beginning. Yet now it is knowing and no longer faith . To know evident put on you by powers that be . I guess you could say I am the lucky one cause I don't need faith . To know as to cast doubt away for good you no longer have to pretend or wish to believe . What it is I can't tell you that . That it is I can say it is . It is big too . I am glad it likes Me . I would be seriously fucked if it didn't . Yet I would go willfully to the pit . I did . So others don't have to . Can I convey what I saw in the pit ? I try . Does anyone listen ? Yeah . Do they change ? Yeah if I can convey they certainly do . People are in progress right now . Think of it as rays of light and if it falls on but a few and they can convey what they receive with new understanding then the seed will continue to grow into a mighty plant .

Here is the Key and it is reiterated since the written word started . All in one word and the human races implementation of the word is what is lacking from the beginning. You ready for the word ? Mercy . O.K. I got a sister word too " Forgive

People don't understand there contempt for each other. When you look at fat people what goes through the mind . Is it mercy for that person or disgust? Be honest with your self . Can you see the problem with Mercy ?
That one little thought is amplified. It reverberates ! People think there thoughts have no effect . Wrong thinking . Consider this : We know what you said in your house by the vibration on the window from you speaking . You think that fat person can't hear your thoughts by the look on your face or the way you turn away . The lack of gratification of being excepted and loved . How do people compensate for lack of love ? You ever wonder about that ? Were do they find there gratification. What is addiction all about ?

 

[S.A.M.]

Me Ki Gal:

You've discovered the paragraph. Another form of division. Ever notice how much of our training is focused on division and spot-the-difference?

 

[wynn]

Why do people discuss anything? Its because every additional opinion adds to the body of knowledge.

Opinions are not knowledge.

So why discuss religion? Interest is one reason, confusion or uncertainly is another, a desire to learn could be a third.

I think that an important reason behind all human interaction (whether on the topic of religion or anything else) is the struggle for survival. This is sometimes carried out in the form of competition, other times in the form of cooperation.

But I think the above can be summed up in fewer words, "differences in opinion are not as relevant as similarities in belief"

because it seems to me that it is the nature of people to neglect similarities and exaggerate differences.

I think
"differences in opinion are not as relevant as similarities in belief"
is about something else than
"to neglect similarities and exaggerate differences".

As for "differences in opinion are not as relevant as similarities in belief" I think this is about allowing for critical discussion as such, a matter of maintaining social and cultural ties, order and harmony (a matter of having beliefs in common) while also practicing critical thinking (a matter of examining differences of opinion: people who examine differences of opinion can still operate from the same beliefs that they have in common).

I think that "to neglect similarities and exaggerate differences" is a matter of not having any basic beliefs in common to begin with.

Secondly, we can observe the trend of exaggerating similarities and neglecting the differences, to the point that differences are neglected regardless how big they may be and how important the differing items may be to the parties involved.
This is an attempt to artificially impose harmony where there is and can be none.

 

[wynn]

Me Ki Gal:

You've discovered the paragraph. Another form of division. Ever notice how much of our training is focused on division and spot-the-difference?

What is wrong with division? What is wrong with spotting differences?

I am I, and you are you. We are two, we are different. What's wrong with that?

 

[Greatest I am]

Yeah, I've met many in the religion forum. I've personally witnessed one person reiterating their return to religion and another one abandoning it. But even if I had not, I would not need personal anecdotes to recognise that religions do not spread by magic dust.

Also, you may not have noticed this, but you are personally engaged in religious debate with people who are not of your religious persuasion. I don't see why anyone has to change their stance through discussion, if you recall, the original claim is only about knowing others, not adopting their beliefs

So basically, most religionists are almost always spinning their wheels when discussing with another religion. Rather a waste of time.

That basically confirms my view that most in a religion are not there because they truly believe. they are there for tradition, culture and peer pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYigmGyN2RQ&feature=youtu.be

Regards
DL

 

[kx000]

So a decision or choice with an ultimatum is free choice.

I am beginning to think you are a Muslim masquerading as a Christian to discredit them.
Christians cannot think well but you are exceeding their usual.
Say hi to Allah for me.

Regards
DL

NO> Have I not been clear?! He who hath a ear.

 

[kx000]

So basically, most religionists are almost always spinning their wheels when discussing with another religion. Rather a waste of time.

That basically confirms my view that most in a religion are not there because they truly believe. they are there for tradition, culture and peer pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYigmGyN2RQ&feature=youtu.be

Regards
DL

Yes, and they will all be damned before you are, ye ol serpent.

 

[kx000]

beyond faith bro . I say it and it happens . My word is my bond . I spent my life sneaking up on it . It was faith in the beginning. Yet now it is knowing and no longer faith . To know evident put on you by powers that be . I guess you could say I am the lucky one cause I don't need faith . To know as to cast doubt away for good you no longer have to pretend or wish to believe . What it is I can't tell you that . That it is I can say it is . It is big too . I am glad it likes Me . I would be seriously fucked if it didn't . Yet I would go willfully to the pit . I did . So others don't have to . Can I convey what I saw in the pit ? I try . Does anyone listen ? Yeah . Do they change ? Yeah if I can convey they certainly do . People are in progress right now . Think of it as rays of light and if it falls on but a few and they can convey what they receive with new understanding then the seed will continue to grow into a mighty plant .

Here is the Key and it is reiterated since the written word started . All in one word and the human races implementation of the word is what is lacking from the beginning. You ready for the word ? Mercy . O.K. I got a sister word too " Forgive

People don't understand there contempt for each other. When you look at fat people what goes through the mind . Is it mercy for that person or disgust? Be honest with your self . Can you see the problem with Mercy ?
That one little thought is amplified. It reverberates ! People think there thoughts have no effect . Wrong thinking . Consider this : We know what you said in your house by the vibration on the window from you speaking . You think that fat person can't hear your thoughts by the look on your face or the way you turn away . The lack of gratification of being excepted and loved . How do people compensate for lack of love ? You ever wonder about that ? Were do they find there gratification. What is addiction all about ?

I know a thing or two about forgivness, but I also know a thing or two about doing what must be done. I have disgust for any man who mistreats their body. Do not underestimate faith my friend, with it you can move a mountain, our Lord said that. The mighty plant is grown, friend.

 

[Believe]

Possibly.
This speaks to free will.
If God is willing to interfere with language to protect mankind, it follows that he could and would interfere if your hypothetical disease ever came around.
No points for your theory my friend.
further, God being omnipotent would know about a disease and could preempt it.

Regards
DL

But it doesn't necessarily want to have to step in to save our asses every single time. Like this our asses become self saving. Would that not be the smarter solution?

 

[Greatest I am]

But it doesn't necessarily want to have to step in to save our asses every single time. Like this our asses become self saving. Would that not be the smarter solution?

Yet he is supposed to save our asses afterwards by having his son murdered for our sins instead of just forgiving them outright.
Insanity.

Regards
DL

 

[gmilam]

Opinions are not knowledge.

It is if your goal is to try and understand other people's opinions.