Why Athiesim is a self defeating belief

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Could you please prove the above statement. It sounds like your saying everyone else is wrong and you're right based on no evidence at all.
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Think of the ticket to Heaven costing more money then you could ever pay, or anyone could ever pay. It is impossible to get into Heaven besides through Jesus, because He is the only payment worth enough to buy the ticket. Jesus said: "I'am the way the truth and the life, no one gets to the father except through me"

This is from the Bible, which there is a heap of evidence to support. About 30 - 50 pages of evidence in "Evidence that demands a verdict - By Josh Mcdowell". It's a very good book, I highly recomend it.
 
horse....

Acctually it's more common then you think. I work at a mental institution where none of our patients could possibly understand the sacrifice Jesus made. Statistically speaking 1% of the population suffers from schizophrenia. That 1% equates to aproximately 25000, in my country (Canada). Keep in mind that's only one mental disease there are many others in our society.

I'm not saying it's impossible for someone with a mental disease to comprehend God only it could make things difficult, or in some cases impossible.

Again if I were a Christian I would have a problem with even one person ending up in hell through no fault of their own.
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The answer is simple, if a person is truly blamless for their sin, then they are already in Christ, so don't worry about it. It's not really an issue, I find it easy enough to have faith that God will extend His mercy to these people, because I know that He could extend it to a sinner like me.
 
I can see how some people deserve to spend an eternity in a hell, ironically it is the people that believe in the bible.
Everyone else seems innocent because they are merely animals following what feels like the right thing to do.
Damn it would be funny if thats how it turned out.
 
horse....

Ok then it's possible for an athiest person to go to heaven then right since you don't know.
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An athiest will go to Hell, because the Bible says he will. A man once said you don't need to know everything about how electricity works, to be able to turn on a light. The same goes for Jesus' salvation. You don't need to know every aspect of it, Jesus makes it simple by basically saying: switch me on, and I will shine my salvation into your life. So it's just as simple to know that if you don't switch Jesus' shining light on, then you won't go to Heaven.
 
horse.....

Well keep search for answers. Your doing pretty good if your only in high school. My only advice to you is to try and keep an open mind on things.
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Lol when you've had prayer answered like I've had, then you will understand when I say that I will never stray from the faith. I asked God one day whether or not I should go to bible college. That night I read a book which talked about a person the same age as me, in the same situation, thinking the same thing, and what happened when he ignored his calling. This sort of freaked me out, that God would answer my prayer so clearly. Not only that, after I told my mum that I felt called to go to bible college and get into ministry, she said to me, that just before I was born she heard God tell her that one of her sons would go into ministry. NOW that freaked me out.

After this affirmation of my call, I set out to talk to people about God. I have so far converted an athiest to christianity. Have turned a homosexual straight. Kept someone from killing themself. And that's only this year, and only the effects of my ministry that I have seen. Who knows what else the seeds I have planted have sprouted.

Also what has conviced me of God's existence, is the two times that I've rebuked Satan. First time I was (like all males, thinking about sex and all that crap) and I just got so sick of it, I couldn't go to sleep or anything. So I said "In Jesus name I comand you to leave my thoughts Satan." And at that precise moment my mind was cleared of any impure thoughts. I even tried to think about them but I just couldn't. (P.S To the smart ass, I have never ever taken drugs, so don't put it down to that). Also the second time I rebuked Satan, was when I was talking to that Gay guy that I said I converted just before. I was nearly finished talking to him about God, and I was up to the final bit. I had just gone through about how he was going to hell, and giving him the reasons, when I decided that he was feeling guilty enough, so I was about to tell him about Jesus when my computer freezed. I didn't have this guys yahoo address, so there was no way I could have told him about Jesus latter. So I didn't restart my computer, because I would have lost his address. So I tried clicking ctrl alt delete and all that, didn't do anything. Tried mashing the keyboard didn't do anything. And then after about 2 mins I said "I rebuke you demon in Jesus' name, do not stand in the way of God's glory" And at that exact moment, to the micro second, my computer went absolutely fine. I hadn't pressed anything, I just said what I said, and that's what happened. I don't believe in a coincidence as big as that one. By the way, yes I did tell the guy about Jesus, and he did repent and accept Him as lord and savior.

And this is just the stuff that has happened in the last 8 months, man you don't know what you're missing out on. I've had friends, who have rebuked demons in people and seen the person totally turned around (Friend name is Bret Saunders, lives over the road, so yes he does exist). My Brother in laws brother (Brad Sieb, used to go to school with), saw a witch at school try to put a curse on his christian friend, but saw the witch turn totally blue in the face instead, and start shivering. There is so much stuff going on, that I seriously can't believe people still choose to ignore it. I have seen these things first hand, and I have had friends which I've known all my life see similar things as well.

Trust me, I'm not going to give up my faith, just because some scientists say it's wrong. They also said the world was flat, whats to say that they're not wrong again. It's not worth risking an eternity in Hell, on what a scientists says.

From Tim
 
Why people deserve to go to Hell

Hi, I'm going to start up a new post soon, on why people deserve to go to Hell. I'll post the start of it here tommorow, but I'll also post it brand new under the why people deserve to go..... heading as well.

CyA
 
I'm glad you got satan out of your computer:)

you are the most insane person to ever string a sentence together....
 
Is it a belief?

I have always been curious about atheism...although it is recognosed as a belief...I think it's more of an assertion about a belief...rather than a belief in it's own right..that owes it's existence to belief and belief structures..!

It's origins coming from an empirical/scientific background...hence the lack of a belief sytem but more a assertion that belief in a being that there is no other being greater than is not scientifically/empirically true..!
 
Twisted words in english isn't very hard, atheisim is a disbelief, just saying it hasn't been proving. If you are going to say that not believing is not a belief, it doesn't mean its a religion. I believe that flight is possible, and in fact, its proven, does that mean its a religion, hmm, maybe god gave us this great ability to fly.
 
Persol said:
Saving you from what exactly? Oh, that's right.... the situation he set up. If I shoot you in the foot, and later operate on it and make it good as new (assuming I'm a doctor), I am not a cool guy. I'm fixing what I originally did.

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Let's keep this in the proper perspective .........

You said if I (God) shot you in the foot. No.
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You shot yourself in the foot by playing with a gun, you youself made after eating of the tree of knowledge and listening to the designs of some snake oil saleman instead of your father who wanted you to grow up and go into His bussiness with the power to heal , divine disernment, the abiliy to speak and make it so and be a source of Goodness for all eternity.


Then you say: (God) later operates on it and makes it good as new (assuming He's a doctor), He is not a cool guy. He's just fixing what He originally did. No.
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God comes down Himself as a man to save His wayward son, and in the operation gives the last drop of His own blood in a transfusion to save you and dies so that you may live.



That's why He's so great............That's why were worship Him today with all our hearts, it's His life that flows through our spiritual viens.
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
You shot yourself in the foot by playing with a gun, you youself made after eating of the tree of knowledge
First, this is supposed my great-great-great-great-etc-grand-father that ate this fruit. If you are going to take it as a methaphor, you have also eaten from the tree of knowledge... as you learned how to speak, use a computer, etc... (although you appear to be on a diet now)

and listening to the designs of some snake oil saleman instead of your father who wanted you to grow up and go into His bussiness

I didn't go into the same field as my father, even though he wanted me too. He didn't disown me because of it. If you give someone free will, you can't get pissed when they use it.

with the power to heal , divine disernment, the abiliy to speak and make it so and be a source of Goodness for all eternity

If these 'talents' are what I continually see in your posts I will pass. I live to call them the superman complex, divine confusion, the ability to speak without saying anything with content.

God comes down Himself as a man to save His wayward son, and in the operation gives the last drop of His own blood in a transfusion to save you and dies so that you may live.

It's not exactly the same. He KNOWS he will end up in a good position.

That's why He's so great............That's why were worship Him today with all our hearts, it's His life that flows through our spiritual viens.

So using my doctor analogy, do you also worship a doctor who convinces his son to be a doctor, and then they both die while somehow saving your life? No... you may be grateful, but you won't worship them. Especially if they put you in the position where your life was threatened to begin with.
 
I didn't go into the same field as my father, even though he wanted me too. He didn't disown me because of it. If you give someone free will, you can't get pissed when they use it.

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This line of reason is so small.
He never got angry because man chose free-will.
Man was free to begin with, but like any father , God warned His son of the dangers of playing with things that are not good for you.
Untill you are mature enough to handle the power to drive a car, for instance; It can be a deady weapon.

Man has always killed each other by using knowledge instead of God's Word.
Look what happened when he invented the sword, gun-powder, ect....
Automobiles kill more each year on the highways than all the wars combined.
Now Man has Atomic Weapons.
Wonder what He's going to do with them...?
 
answers,


You have presented lots of interesting ideas. Really you should have condensed it all into one post. Just makes things easier to read, no matter though.

No actually God didn't wan't Adam to take the fruit, He actually said, "Adam don't take the fruit". He did forsee that Adam would take the fruit, and he also forsaw that He would have to give His only son to pay for Adams sin.

Why would he not want Adam to take the fruit if he knew he was going to do it anyways? Why not place the tree on the moon or somewhere he couldn't get at it then. The only logical explaination is that he designed it all to happen the way it did because that's the way he wanted it to begin with.

God saves people from Hell, people send people to Hell. We are lucky anybody is going to Heaven as it is, it is only because of God's mercy that some are going to Heaven (we all deserve Hell, even if you people don't think you do, it doesn't really matter, because God thinks you do)

You forget though God set the whole system up to begin with though. He is the designer of the universe right?
Nobody would actively choose to go to hell. Again does it seem right anyone should suffer in hell? How do you feel about the people you care about (if they reject Jesus) roasting in hell?

Jesus said: "I'am the way the truth and the life, no one gets to the father except through me"

This doesn't really validate your position. Other religions could claim different factors for getting into heaven. How does your religion make it the right way?

The answer is simple, if a person is truly blamless for their sin, then they are already in Christ, so don't worry about it.

It is then therfore possible to get into heaven even if you don't believe in Jesus.

Ok so how do you know if you are truly blamless? What if I was brought up to be an atheist, and never heard of Christianity? Would I be blameless then? How about if I logically cannot explain believe in God based on the arguements I have heard so far? You see the problem here.

Lol when you've had prayer answered like I've had, then you will understand when I say that I will never stray from the faith. I asked God one day whether or not I should go to bible college.

A good collection of interesting stories. So based on these occurances you believe in God. Not trying to say your wrong to believe in God I just don't have it conviced to me yet.

Have turned a homosexual straight.

I'm amazed how did you do this? Can you please tell me this story, I'm very interested to know how you turned someone straight.

Anyhow got to go for now.
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor

Automobiles kill more each year on the highways than all the wars combined.

I have respect for your imaginative perspective on christianty etc, but where do you get these facts from?
 
yeah cause if i recall rightly, 20 million russian soldiers died in WWII, that is excluding all of the people stalin sent to the gulags and killed because he thought they were traitors. that was just the russians people!!! there is no way 20 mill die every year from car accidents.
 
Re: Horse....

Originally posted by answers
God saves people from Hell, people send people to Hell. We are lucky anybody is going to Heaven as it is, it is only because of God's mercy that some are going to Heaven
Yeah, if you'd just go around and kill all the babies we wouldn't have to worry about them going to hell.

Simple as that

I agree. Killing the babies to send them to heaven is 'simple as that'. You should be willing to sacrifice to save the souls of hundreds.
 
Originally posted by TheVisitor
Man was free to begin with, but like any father , God warned His son of the dangers of playing with things that are not good for you.
Untill you are mature enough to handle the power to drive a car, for instance; It can be a deady weapon.
EXACTLY! Adam and Eve did not know enough to not 'play' with the tree of knowledge. It is the father's job to make sure you don't set the car keys in the kid's hand.
 
answers,

Just thinking a little bit more about what you said earlier...

God saves people from Hell, people send people to Hell. We are lucky anybody is going to Heaven as it is, it is only because of God's mercy that some are going to Heaven (we all deserve Hell, even if you people don't think you do, it doesn't really matter, because God thinks you do)

To put it simply what I think you're saying if we don't accept Jesus as our saviour we are destined for hell.

The question then becomes if I do accept Jesus only based on the fact that otherwise I'll end up in hell, am I not only doing it to save my own skin? What kind of a God would accept someone into heaven on the basis to only save themself, from eternal damnation?

It's like someone is holding a gun to your head. Where is the compasion, the freewill to choose, or the logic in that?
 
a rather intense fear of going to hell would make one act rather selfishly and try extra hard to get into gods good books, such going to far in trying to do good, and in doing so hurt others through self-serving behaviour...

i can think of yet more contradictions...
 
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