Why Athiesim is a self defeating belief

[TheVisitor]

Answers...................very well said. Especially this...........

"Don't listen to those who go around the streets saying that "Jesus loves you". The apostles never said it. They said "Repent or you will perish"

Most peolpe don't realize this is the truth......the idea that "Jesus loves everyone" is designed to cause them who believe such, to miss seeking God with the desperation it will take to overcome and stand in this evil day.
Jesus hates sin.
His Word calls for a total seperation from unbelief.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[answers]

In reply to the person who said children and insane people go to hell, and how that's bad or whatever....

Anyway, Jesus said, unless you are like these little children then you will not go to heaven. So if children are like children I don't see the problem here. But of course I'm not God, and I'm not the perfect Judge, so I might be wrong, that's why I'm glad that task isn't up to me.

Now for insane people. Everyone has a conscience. That means With Knowledge. And everyone is with the knowledge of good and evil. (I have had athiests even admit that to me, so get over it) Thats why God says no one is with excuse for what they have done wrong. Now the conscience applies guilt, and gives joy....Now lets apply this to a mentally ill person. If that mentally ill person has the desire to do good (because the conscience still gives them that knowledge), in the depths of his mind, then that person desires God. Because Jesus said God is good. As in God is every good thing. So if a person desires a good thing, then that person desires God and God won't reject them. However if that person, in their basic thoughts desires evil. Then God will reject them. Because that person rejected God. BUT then again, this is only my thougths on the issue, there are many others. Perhaps God meets with the person and tests them when they are sane. Perhaps...perhaps, but who really cares. Because your not insane. Your not a child. So why are you basing your decision for salvation on other peoples circumstances that influence their salvation. Let God worry about it, and if you do you truely are intelligent, becuase there is no one better then an all knowing God to make judgements. Worry about your own problems, before you try to understand and fix others.

Now this is just plain logic. If an insane murderer doesn't go to hell. Then he doesn't go to heaven either, even if we think he does. Because for an insane murderer to go to heaven, he would no longer be an insane murderer, he would be someone different. Therefore he wouldn't be himself, so he would not go to heaven no matter what. It's impossible for a person who is evil to go to heaven, therefore any evil person would have to not be themselves to go to heaven. Logical! That is why Jesus takes our place. He is not us. He is pure good. And He cleans us, and makes us pure as well. What I am today, I will not be when I am saved. (THANK GOD) And what you are won't be what you will be when you are condemned. Because all of God's goodness, for God is good, will be drained out of you, and replaced by evil. You will not be what you are today, you will be unimaginably worse. Just like I will be unimaginably better. I will have the bad taken out, and replaced by God's goodness.

Then again you probably don't know what I am talking about. Because you are the opposite to what I am. How can darkness comprehend the things that are in the light?

 

[atheroy]

hey answers? your views are very negative, very ignorant, VERY proud, and basically stupid. how can an all powerful god give a **** if i happen to keep 5 cents from someone- not that i generally do cause who the hell would bother with stealing 5 cent coins. why would an all powerful being have such narrow views as yours? do you take the bible literally? because if you do you are crazy, it is the most flawed piece of writing in the whole world, and if you don't, then i guess you are sinning against "god" because who are you to question your "gods" word? you are a hateful person, the type that cause wars, the type that prosecute people because of no good reason except for your own predjudices. i, as an atheist, take my main reason for not believing in god because of people like you. why on earth would anyone want to be like you? living your life in fear of hell- no thanks. want to live forever? nup. your "god" and his ideas have no relevance to me if they make people think like you.

 

[Horseman42]

answers,

Thank you for responding to my post.

Anyway, Jesus said, unless you are like these little children then you will not go to heaven. So if children are like children I don't see the problem here. But of course I'm not God, and I'm not the perfect Judge, so I might be wrong, that's why I'm glad that task isn't up to me.

So what you're saying it totaly depends on the person's situation weather or not they get in to heaven, and therefore some people (ie. very young children) don't need to believe in all that stuff about Jesus dying for their sins and stuff. Either that or you really don't know exactly who will go to heaven who won't.

So why are you basing your decision for salvation on other peoples circumstances that influence their salvation.

Because what I'm getting at is why is it fair if someone has a mental problem because of no fault of their own, and then therefore cannot get in to heaven because of it. If I were a Christian I would be very upset of the amount of people who go to hell based on no decision of their own.

If an insane murderer doesn't go to hell. Then he doesn't go to heaven either, even if we think he does.

Then where do the criminally insane go when they die? Unless you believe in something like purgatory you really only have two choices being a Christian.

You will not be what you are today, you will be unimaginably worse. Just like I will be unimaginably better. I will have the bad taken out, and replaced by God's goodness.

Right so you're good and I'm evil? Why do you assume this? It's this type of atitude among Christians that I have a problem with.

Then again you probably don't know what I am talking about. Because you are the opposite to what I am. How can darkness comprehend the things that are in the light?

Making assumptions again. Is it so hard for you to believe I may be on your side and only looking for the truth as well?

 

[MooseKnuckle]

Atheroy-

how can an all powerful god give a **** if i happen to keep 5 cents from someone

It wouldnt. Humans are social creatures. The belief of a supernatural agent with access to strategic information helps to maintain cooperation. It is a great mode of cheater- detection, it is a great way to make people abstain from commiting acts that would not be seen by fellow members of the community.

......."A large prescence in the sky will always be watching you, therefore you need to act in socially appropriate ways or else hell awaits you!!!"

See how a belief like this can be extremely beneficial to the workings of society and interactions between individuals.

 

[answers]

Horseman42

I have to say sorry, my last post to you was posted at 12pm, and I thought you were the one that has sworn at me about 7 times so far (funnily enough about being too mean or something lol), but it was someone else. Anyway that's why my post to you wasn't as positive as I would have made it (as you can relate to, if someone swears at you, you react differently to if somone asks you a proper question). But anyway I'm sorry, hope theres no hard feelings.

BUT to the atheist that said I'm stupid or whatever: you said my life must suck because I'm living in constant fear of hell. This statement is so unbelievably stupid that I just couldn't hold back my laughter. You atheists seriously crack me up. After talking about me being so mean and hatefilled, you swear at me like 7 times. And after me telling you that you should be afraid of hell, and that if you no longer want to be afraid of hell, then you should do what I did and give yourself to Jesus. You say to me, you must have a bad life becuase you live in fear of hell. Lol, I just said that I don't live in fear of hell becuase I'm saved.

Come on, can't you see the humour.

 

[answers]

why a christian is good and an unbeliever is evil

This statement that christians are good and unbelievers are evil, I have to admit does give the wrong impression. God says whoever is not for me, is against me. But that doesn't mean that unbelievers are evil, it does however mean they are against God. This is because some unbelievers can be the nicest people in the world, but still be subject to satans will, and so obviously they are against God. Every unsaved person follows satans desires. You may say: "I've seen plenty of nice and good unsaved people, how could they possibly be following Satans will?" Well you see, satans will is to take away God's glory. And saved people are God's glory. It doesn't matter to satan if he allows people to be nice followers of his will, just as long as they follow it. You see it actually helps satans will, if you are a good unsaved person. Becuase if everyone who wasn't saved, was so blatantly evil, then people would quickly be converted. So satan allows unsaved people to be good, to put off others from believing in God.

Now to say Christians are good isn't too clear either. Because the only thing that makes christians good is Christ in them. I'm actually a very sinful person, but with Christ in me, I am good, because Christ washes away my sin. I'm not proud in myself, I'm just boasting about my saviour. Because his such a cool guy for saving me.

Anyway, gotta make a new thread, CyA

From Tim

 

[Persol]

Re: why a christian is good and an unbeliever is evil

Originally posted by answers
Every unsaved person follows satans desires. You may say: "I've seen plenty of nice and good unsaved people, how could they possibly be following Satans will?" Well you see, satans will is to take away God's glory.
If taking away God's glory is the downside to Satan, then he doesn't seem such a bad imaginary friend. Making sure that God gets credit is not at the top of my list of concerns... for that matter making sure anybody gets credit (including me) is not at the top of my list. This God you are describing sounds more and more selfish the more you try.

Now to say Christians are good isn't too clear either. Because the only thing that makes christians good is Christ in them. I'm actually a very sinful person, but with Christ in me, I am good, because Christ washes away my sin.
This is a nice catch-22. If you are good it is because christ was in you. If not the devil must have been in you. I could just as easily say that when I'm happy the spirit of a midget must have been in me... but it means nothing.

I'm not proud in myself, I'm just boasting about my saviour. Because his such a cool guy for saving me.
Saving you from what exactly? Oh, that's right.... the situation he set up. If I shoot you in the foot, and later operate on it and make it good as new (assuming I'm a doctor), I am not a cool guy. I'm fixing what I originally did.

 

[Horseman42]

answers,

I have to say sorry, my last post to you was posted at 12pm, and I thought you were the one that has sworn at me about 7 times so far (funnily enough about being too mean or something lol), but it was someone else.

That's ok. I try no to swear too much because I feel it only enrages people and confuses the issues at hand.

God says whoever is not for me, is against me. But that doesn't mean that unbelievers are evil, it does however mean they are against God.

Many religions say this. Why should I follow Christianity rather than some other religion? Which religion is the right one in the eyes of God.

Every unsaved person follows satans desires. You may say: "I've seen plenty of nice and good unsaved people, how could they possibly be following Satans will?" Well you see, satans will is to take away God's glory. And saved people are God's glory.

Sorry I find the whole thing about Satan nothing more than a farrie tale. Why would an all powerful God design a system this way? According to your logic no one can get into heaven unless they believe in Jesus Christ.

Again you have not answered my entire post last time. Where do the mentally ill go, or children who cannot understand Jesus? Or for that matter the people in the old testiment before Christ's time? If God makes some exceptions to the rule for these people than logically why can't he make exceptions for the athiests?

 

[MooseKnuckle]

answers-

I'm actually a very sinful person, but with Christ in me, I am good, because Christ washes away my sin. I'm not proud in myself, I'm just boasting about my saviour. Because his such a cool guy for saving me.

Think about this concept of saving you.....he saves you because you worship him, he declines his love from you if you dont. This is also outside the realm of action. Sining or the lack of sin is not the determining factor in his love, it is his need for worship that determines how he treats people.

This sounds like a way for weak people to eliminate guilt from their actions. They say that Jesus will wash away their sins, but if you dont repent your sins will not be forgivin. Why is this so? Why does it matter who you worship, shouldnt one's actions be the dictator of Jesus's love?

You are responsible for your actions, the results will never dissapear because you repented, the action was made and there is nothing you can do to eliminate that.

People need to grow up and take responsiblity for their actions and not think there is such an easy fix.

 

[atheroy]

answers

And saved people are God's glory

i think the universe is a much bigger achievement, rather than a group of people on a miniscule dirt ball planet.

sorry if you felt i swore at you before but actually i was quite peeved at something you wrote earlier and felt i had to type four stars as an empahsis to my point

 

[Xev]

Jesus hates sin.

Jesus hates everyone. Jesus hates you because you will never be as good and perfect as Him, instead you'll always be a miserable, filthy little sinner who doesn't even deserve to lick the dirt off of Jesus' sandals.

His Word calls for a total seperation from unbelief.

Well, a complete seperation from logic and rationality.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Finally we agree. Jesus was and remains dead.

 

[answers]

horse...

Sorry I find the whole thing about Satan nothing more than a farrie tale. Why would an all powerful God design a system this way? According to your logic no one can get into heaven unless they believe in Jesus Christ.
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You see God didn't design this system. God designed heaven on earth in the garden of eden. Adam and Eve were the ones who screwed up the design. God's design was to have fellowship with us in paradise. However now that sin has come into the equation, God cannot have fellowship with us anymore, because sin is so unbelievably disgusting to him. Being around sin to God, is billions times worse then us swimming in a pool of vomit, it's the most disgusting thing possible to God, and He avoids it at all costs, even if it means letting satan take away the vomit into Hell.

God is not evil in doing this. In fact right after Adam and Eve sinned against God, God was already planning to send His only son to die on the cross for these sinning humans. Instead of judgement, and punishment, God gives us mercy. However if we reject Jesus, it is like rejecting the ticket into Heaven, and if you don't have a ticket then how are you supposed to enter. Jesus said that I am the only ticket God will accept. And God demands payment for what you have done. AGAIN God is like a judge in a court, and if you have chosen Jesus to represent you, then no matter what the prosecutor (satan) throws at the judge, Jesus will simply say, although he has done these things, I have already paid his punishment. Then God will say, "case dissmissed". But if you chose someone other then Jesus to represent you, then there is no way that you can find justification for you entering heaven.
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Again you have not answered my entire post last time. Where do the mentally ill go, or children who cannot understand Jesus? Or for that matter the people in the old testiment before Christ's time? If God makes some exceptions to the rule for these people than logically why can't he make exceptions for the athiests?
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God doesn't make exceptions to the rule. Jesus said I'm the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me. And Jesus is so merciful, that He may chose to go out of his way to cleans someone who doesn't understand sin, however these types of people are very few. And I don't personally believe that anyone doesn't know that if they rape and murder someone, that that is evil. If a child is pure then Jesus wouldn't even notice the difference between the child and himself, as in purity. HOWEVER, it is up to God to decide these things. I think your asking a bit too much of me, when you start asking me about How God will judge people. Come on, I'm not all knowing, all powerful, or everywhere, so how do you expect me to even partially express what God's judgements are going to be. Every time you get closer to being like God, you realise just how far you are away from being like him. (I'm not even out of high school yet, so I don't know how you expect me to answer questions that only God can answer).

Now atheists, reject Jesus, and God will return the favor and reject you. He only gives you what you want. You have no excuse.

Hope this has been informative.

CyA

 

[Xev]

Now atheists, reject Jesus, and God will return the favor and reject you. He only gives you what you want. You have no excuse.

I find the idea that I might be rejected by a petty tyrannical fool to be intolerable. I'm sorry God!

 

[wesmorris]

Re: why a christian is good and an unbeliever is evil

Originally posted by answers
This statement that christians are good and unbelievers are evil, I have to admit does give the wrong impression. God says whoever is not for me, is against me.

You are simply claiming divine knowledge while showing no justification that you have any actual knowledge to begin with.

Originally posted by answers

But that doesn't mean that unbelievers are evil, it does however mean they are against God.

No, it doesn't. You have given no chain of logic reaching this conclusion. You're simply talking shit. Logically speaking I believe that being without god does not align one against "him".

Originally posted by answers

This is because some unbelievers can be the nicest people in the world, but still be subject to satans will, and so obviously they are against God. Every unsaved person follows satans desires. You may say: "I've seen plenty of nice and good unsaved people, how could they possibly be following Satans will?" Well you see, satans will is to take away God's glory. And saved people are God's glory. It doesn't matter to satan if he allows people to be nice followers of his will, just as long as they follow it. You see it actually helps satans will, if you are a good unsaved person. Becuase if everyone who wasn't saved, was so blatantly evil, then people would quickly be converted. So satan allows unsaved people to be good, to put off others from believing in God.

Now to say Christians are good isn't too clear either. Because the only thing that makes christians good is Christ in them. I'm actually a very sinful person, but with Christ in me, I am good, because Christ washes away my sin. I'm not proud in myself, I'm just boasting about my saviour. Because his such a cool guy for saving me.

Anyway, gotta make a new thread, CyA

From Tim

I would have adressed the rest if it weren't all pretty much the same retarded drivel that the typical moronic theist spouts. Why should anyone give your message any type of merit whatsoever?

You call yourself "answers". May I ask what measures you've taken to ensure your "answers" aren't lies? Why do you consider yourself so much more qualified to discern between fact and fiction? From what you've displayed here, I'd say you'd fail the simplest of quizzes regarding the topic.

 

[Horseman42]

answers,

You see God didn't design this system. God designed heaven on earth in the garden of eden. Adam and Eve were the ones who screwed up the design.

If god is all knowing and all powerful he would have known Adam and Eve would have taken from the fruit in the beginning. The only reasonable explaination is that god wanted it this way to begin with.

God is not evil in doing this. In fact right after Adam and Eve sinned against God, God was already planning to send His only son to die on the cross for these sinning humans.

Does it make sense for God to send his own children to hell based on some simple fact that we don't believe in his existance or don't accept Jesus as our personal saviour? It may not seam evil to you but it does to me.

But if you chose someone other then Jesus to represent you, then there is no way that you can find justification for you entering heaven.

Could you please prove the above statement. It sounds like your saying everyone else is wrong and you're right based on no evidence at all.

God doesn't make exceptions to the rule. Jesus said I'm the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me. And Jesus is so merciful, that He may chose to go out of his way to cleans someone who doesn't understand sin, however these types of people are very few.

Acctually it's more common then you think. I work at a mental institution where none of our patients could possibly understand the sacrifice Jesus made. Statistically speaking 1% of the population suffers from schizophrenia. That 1% equates to aproximately 25000, in my country (Canada). Keep in mind that's only one mental disease there are many others in our society.

I'm not saying it's impossible for someone with a mental disease to comprehend God only it could make things difficult, or in some cases impossible.

Again if I were a Christian I would have a problem with even one person ending up in hell through no fault of their own.

when you start asking me about How God will judge people. Come on, I'm not all knowing, all powerful, or everywhere, so how do you expect me to even partially express what God's judgements are going to be.

Ok then it's possible for an athiest person to go to heaven then right since you don't know.

(I'm not even out of high school yet, so I don't know how you expect me to answer questions that only God can answer).

Well keep search for answers. Your doing pretty good if your only in high school. My only advice to you is to try and keep an open mind on things.

 

[MooseKnuckle]

answers-

Now atheists, reject Jesus, and God will return the favor and reject you. He only gives you what you want. You have no excuse.

I would have to disagree with this. He does not supply the evidence needed for many to make an educated decision FOR his existance.

Its not an issue of rejecting jesus, if he presented himself im sure not many people in the world would resist him( well maybe some, due to his past track record). In order to be rejected he would have to present himself, but since he has not we cant reject him, we can only reject the idea of the son of God.

 

[JoojooSpaceape]

Originally posted by answers
Athiest means "no" "God". When a person says that they are an athiest, they are saying, I know that there is no God, therefore I believe one doesn't exist. BUT to have knowledge that there is no God, you would need to be all knowing.
CyA

From Tim

No human is all knowing, This is no proof that god exists, or that he doesnt, that is why we are a very self conflicting race, because we are not sure what tuo believe, now lets say god did show up, performed miracles, and healed people, and the like, then im sure more people would believe

 

[answers]

to horse....

If god is all knowing and all powerful he would have known Adam and Eve would have taken from the fruit in the beginning. The only reasonable explaination is that god wanted it this way to begin with.
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No actually God didn't wan't Adam to take the fruit, He actually said, "Adam don't take the fruit". He did forsee that Adam would take the fruit, and he also forsaw that He would have to give His only son to pay for Adams sin. He also forsaw that He would at times regret making humans. BUT HE THOUGHT THAT IT WAS WORTH IT, BECAUSE HE IS LIKE US, HE WANT'S OTHERS TO HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH HIM, AND GIVE HIM GLORY BY REFLECTING HIS OWN GOODNESS.

Kool isn't He

 

[answers]

Horse....

Does it make sense for God to send his own children to hell based on some simple fact that we don't believe in his existance or don't accept Jesus as our personal saviour? It may not seam evil to you but it does to me.
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God saves people from Hell, people send people to Hell. We are lucky anybody is going to Heaven as it is, it is only because of God's mercy that some are going to Heaven (we all deserve Hell, even if you people don't think you do, it doesn't really matter, because God thinks you do)

Simple as that

P.S the reason why i'm not replying to the other guys questions is becuase he swore at me, don't spit in my face and expect me to give you a gift.