Why Athiesim is a self defeating belief

[answers]

Athiest means "no" "God". When a person says that they are an athiest, they are saying, I know that there is no God, therefore I believe one doesn't exist. BUT to have knowledge that there is no God, you would need to be all knowing. You would need to know every square inch of the universe, you would need to be able to see within people, through mountains, you would need to be all knowing and all seeing because how else would you know that God isn't hiding away somewhere off in another part of the universe, or within a person, or mountain? So in saying, I'm an Athiest, people are saying, I'm all knowing, and that means that they're God. So when someone say I'm an Atheist, they are actually saying, there is no God, I am God, both at the same time. WHAT A CONTRADICTION. No wonder most people don't have any guts and they settle for calling themselves Agnostics.

CyA

From Tim

 

[Thor]

But don't you have to be all knowing to say that there IS a god for certain??

It's all down to personal belief. Let sleeping cables lie...or something

 

[river-wind]

an interesting proof, I have to say.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by answers
Athiest means "no" "God". When a person says that they are an athiest, they are saying, I know that there is no God, therefore I believe one doesn't exist. BUT to have knowledge that there is no God, you would need to be all knowing. You would need to know every square inch of the universe, you would need to be able to see within people, through mountains, you would need to be all knowing and all seeing because how else would you know that God isn't hiding away somewhere off in another part of the universe, or within a person, or mountain? So in saying, I'm an Athiest, people are saying, I'm all knowing, and that means that they're God. So when someone say I'm an Atheist, they are actually saying, there is no God, I am God, both at the same time. WHAT A CONTRADICTION. No wonder most people don't have any guts and they settle for calling themselves Agnostics.

CyA

From Tim

We've been through this one. Agnosticism is not a stance regarding religion. You've got it wrong as I did when I came here. Look up the word "epistemology". Agnosticism is a stance regarding epistemology, NOT religion. Aitheism doesn't mean you "know" there is no god, it merely means you find no evidence supporting that there is.

Oh, and it's silly to say that you'd have to be "all knowing" to KNOW there isn't a god. You'd just have to know there isn't a god. Maybe there is a trick to knowing that which you're not aware of eh?

If you are really interested in the topic, look up a thread by ConsequentAithiest called "consistent or delimited agnosticism". It should shed some light on the scenario for you.

 

[spacemanspiff]

"No wonder most people don't have any guts and they settle for calling themselves Agnostics."

hey no need to insult agnostics, or weak-atheist or whatever you want to call us. asides i don't see the point of your post. sure no one knows everything for sure. if anything that shows that no one of any sort of religious opinion knows for certain that they are right. that knocks christianity just as much as it knocks atheism. besides most people, as was said before, will say that in their eyes the evidence points one way or the other. not that they have absolute all knowing proof. well, some christians might.

 

[Zero Mass]

Originally posted by answers
Athiest means "no" "God". When a person says that they are an athiest, they are saying, I know that there is no God, therefore I believe one doesn't exist.

First off crapface, the prefix "a-" means without, not, or opposed to. Theism is the belief in the existence of god or gods. The label atheist does not say that one knows that there is no god, but an atheist rather rejects the idea of a god? This is basic stuff for this forum, which you should know. Must I also go get the dictionary for agnostic also?

I do not say that I know that there is no god for certain, but I have never found one single picogram of evidence for the existence of a supernatural force in our world. If there is no signs, evidence, or proof for a thing in the natural world in which we live, then there is no way I could believe in something with no backing. Just believing in a supernatural force because you have no other explanation for natural occurrences is not a reason to believe.

Originally posted by answers
BUT to have knowledge that there is no God, you would need to be all knowing. You would need to know every square inch of the universe, you would need to be able to see within people, through mountains, you would need to be all knowing and all seeing because how else would you know that God isn't hiding away somewhere off in another part of the universe, or within a person, or mountain?

Yes, it is absolutely true that you yourself would have to be supernatural in order to understand that there is no such thing as supernatural forces, but that can never happen because there is no such power in the universe.

You might put up the argument that just because we cannot perceive god doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, but that is a really weak argument. I could say that a monster lives in my closet because I believe one to be in there, eating my underwear, but that doesn't make it true. God is only an idea in the mind of humans, that is the only way that god exists, as an entity in your head.

Originally posted by answers
So in saying, I'm an Athiest, people are saying, I'm all knowing, and that means that they're God. So when someone say I'm an Atheist, they are actually saying, there is no God, I am God, both at the same time. WHAT A CONTRADICTION. No wonder most people don't have any guts and they settle for calling themselves Agnostics.

You are just wrong here. First off, read the dictionary, second, read my entire reply, I think that I make some good points about basis for disbelief.

Please attempt to show me evidence for the existence of god, because that is the only thing that I want to hear from you in response to this. Your original topic is ignorant and instead of tearing down atheists, I wish that you would please try to build up theism.

ZERO MASS

 

[Cris]

Answers,

Does this mean you also hold the position that Santa Claus might exist then since I suspect you haven’t checked every corner of the universe to verify he doesn’t exist.

The issue with believing the Christian god does not exist is a matter of credibility and the recognition of a fantasy just the same as Santa Claus and fairies.

It is often stated that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and while this is technically true there is a point where one can see that a complete absence of evidence coupled with claims born from imaginative fantasy that have zero precedent in reality, no factual basis, no observation, and no detection, leave the intelligent person with little doubt that such foolish ideas can have no bearing on reality. In this case the absence of evidence for such fantasies is very strong evidence for their non existence.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Re: Re: Why Athiesim is a self defeating belief

Originally posted by Zero Mass
I have never found one single picogram of evidence for the existence of a supernatural force in our world.

Come to think of it, even if you did find such evidence, it wouldn't be supernatural because it would be occurring in nature.

 

[wesmorris]

Re: Re: Re: Why Athiesim is a self defeating belief

Originally posted by Jade Squirrel
Come to think of it, even if you did find such evidence, it wouldn't be supernatural because it would be occurring in nature.

You are wise grasshopper. I've ranted about this before.

 

[Zero Mass]

i was thinking about something supernatural that can be examined...like a bag of magic. Why can't god give me some bag of magic or something, that would help prove his existance.

My idea of a bag of magic would be like, if you put the stuff in the bag on a dog, it would magically turn into a asparagus or something, that would be magical.

But no, god isn't that cool or wise. In fact, god just isn't real.

ZERO MASS

 

[answers]

Zero

You want your evidence, you won't get it. No matter what you do, it is impossible for you to become a Christian. There is absolutely no chance of it. Because God rejects the proud. He will never regenerate your desires. If you stay like you are then your going to Hell. Simple isn't it, yet you will never understand.

 

[Zero Mass]

Re: Zero

Originally posted by answers
You want your evidence, you won't get it. No matter what you do, it is impossible for you to become a Christian. There is absolutely no chance of it. Because God rejects the proud. He will never regenerate your desires. If you stay like you are then your going to Hell. Simple isn't it, yet you will never understand.

You are ****. That is the kind of stuff that makes Christians the worst people on Earth.
It's ok to admit that you know nothing about the universe, the origen of species, moral and social questions, and the meaning of life, but when you claim to know better than anybody else you are being more than ignorant, you are being a supremacist ****.

Leave your judging behavior at the door, I want nothing to do with your religion you ****.

ZERO MASS

Moderator edit: Personal insults add nothing useful to the discussion.

 

[venomx]

Originally posted by river-wind
an interesting proof, I have to say.

It's not really a proof though is it? Its a word game... one that initially makes an assumption about what an atheist is, being wrong, makes the rest of the argument a bit off.

1. When a person says they are atheist they are saying they reject religion / do not share the religious beliefs of the person the statement was directed at.

This is an example of a twisting of words.. infact a statement that is completely irrelevant...
"To have knowledge there is no god, you would have to be all knowing"
Indeed yes. But Atheism is about religion being WRONG about god, rather than "there is no god". But that has no relevance to the Atheism question, is the christian god, as laid out in the bible, real or not? Well reality seems to suggest the bible is wrong.
That does NOT rule out the possiblity of their being a god, its just ONE of a infinite number of possible explainations has been writen off.
I am saying the bible is either wrong or not, rather than partly correct, as the bible and its bashers insists it is correct to the last letter.

If believing the christian version of god is not true makes me an antheist then i've got the guts to accept that label.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Originally posted by venomx
When a person says they are atheist they are saying they reject religion / do not share the religious beliefs of the person the statement was directed at.

Atheism isn't synonymous with non-religious. Many Buddhists and Taoists are technically atheists because their religion is not focused on a deity.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

answers

Your 'argument' falls apart at this statement:

...they are saying, I know that there is no God, therefore I believe one doesn't exist...

That's pretty much saying:

'I KNOW concept X is TRUE therefore I accept without proof that
concept X is TRUE'

It just doesn't make any sense man!

Anyhow, logic flaw aside...consider this. I don't 'believe'... I just
remove the concept from my life (a nice little strategy to promote
actual thinking). 'God' is (for most) a 'belief' and is by default a
subset of the concept removed from my life. That subset has
been labeled 'Atheism' by the majority... the majority
who 'believes' (ie. accepts whatever without proof).

 

[Mystech]

Re: Zero

Originally posted by answers
You want your evidence, you won't get it. No matter what you do, it is impossible for you to become a Christian. There is absolutely no chance of it. Because God rejects the proud. He will never regenerate your desires. If you stay like you are then your going to Hell. Simple isn't it, yet you will never understand.

Ahh, so God hates all of those who are critical thinkers, and possess the faculties to understand logic? Well, I find that to be very convenient, though I must admit that it answers a great deal about those who chose to follow him. Hope you enjoy life as a sheep.

 

[Jade Squirrel]

Re: Re: Zero

Originally posted by Mystech
Ahh, so God hates all of those who are critical thinkers, and possess the faculties to understand logic? Well, I find that to be very convenient, though I must admit that it answers a great deal about those who chose to follow him. Hope you enjoy life as a sheep.

I'm sure he will. Jesus actually told everyone that they are sheep (and he is the shepherd). Thus the sheep mentality of Xianity (Bible the word of God and all that other bullshit).

 

[mountainhare]

You want your evidence, you won't get it. No matter what you do, it is impossible for you to become a Christian. There is absolutely no chance of it. Because God rejects the proud. He will never regenerate your desires. If you stay like you are then your going to Hell. Simple isn't it, yet you will never understand.

ZeroMass basically took the words out of my mouth when he replied to this retarded quote, but I want to say something too...
"KISS MY ASS!" This insult is also directed at your 'all-loving' god.

And yes, my insult was warranted, because you and your God just threatened me. And you didn't just threaten my body, you threatened my 'soul', the thing that makes me what I am. You and your God must both be really retarded, insane, physcotic, mentally disabled, hypocritical, and nutcases. Please refrain from threatening me with your God, as making threats is a criminal offense.

 

[answers]

Mountain, ever heard of defamation? Well, if you wan't to go on about legalities, then why don't you stop being hypocritical yourself, and look at the whole law. In fact look at God's law while your at it. That's what your going to be judged by.

Moses, who muslims respect as a prophet, had two tablets with God's law written on them. These tablets said 10 things concerning what not to do. Let's look at three of them. Do not lie. Have you ever lied? Of course you have. Do not steal. Have you ever stollen anything? Of course you have, even if it is witholding 5 cents from someone. Have you ever commited adultery. Jesus said,whoever looks at a women with lust, has committed adultery with her in his heart. So God judges you by this law, and the Judgement will be: you are a lying, theiving, adulterer, who is sentenced to an eternity in Hell. And we have only touched on 3 of 10 of the commandments. You are guilty before the Lord. Your conscience tells you that. You have knowledge of your wrong doings. And a just and fair Judge finds those who are guilty, guilty! You are guilty. Mahumad can't save you. Darwin can't save you. Your reasoning can't save you. Your petty excuses can't save you. Nothing can save you from the lake of fire, except Jesus. Jesus who resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Jesus who says, if you don't come to Me now, then I'll spit you out. And guess where you'll land?... Do you like fire? It would be a good thing if you didn't mind it, for your sake.

You say that you feel threatened by this...you should be shaking every moment of the day.

Don't listen to those who go around the streets saying that "Jesus loves you". The apostles never said it. They said "Repent or you will perish". Repent, say sorry, or you'll find a place in Hell. You will burn for all eternity. God will turn His back on you. Everything that is good in the world, will be replaced by unimaginable evil. You will be flooded with darkness until you cannot take it anymore, but you will take it, and take it....forever and ever. Because you won't say and believe the following words. "Lord I'm a sinner, Jesus the son of God, I need your forgivness." You reject those words. Thus God will reject YOU!

 

[Horseman42]

answers,

Mountain, ever heard of defamation? Well, if you wan't to go on about legalities, then why don't you stop being hypocritical yourself, and look at the whole law. In fact look at God's law while your at it. That's what your going to be judged by.

It's crap like your post that proves just how terrible and misguided Christians are.

First of all you say that we are all essentially bad and evil, and there's nothing we can do about it. Guilty of sin since the day we were born. Sorry I like to think about myself in a positive way not a negative way thanks.

Jesus who resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Jesus who says, if you don't come to Me now, then I'll spit you out. And guess where you'll land?

Right so all those who do not accepted that Jesus had died for their sins go to hell? What about babies or mental patients? I know many mental patients who do not have the capacity to understand Jesus and who have commited serious criminal acts (like murder, arson ect...). Guess they all go to hell too then.

They said "Repent or you will perish". Repent, say sorry, or you'll find a place in Hell. You will burn for all eternity.

Again as I pointed out before on an earlier post the whole concept is like a madman pointing a gun at our heads. If God gave us free will then we should be able to decide ourselves what laws to live by. However along came Moses and his 10 commandments, now if we don't obey and do as God asks we suffer an eternity of Hell. How is that free will?

The whole story of Hell is silly if you really start thinking about it.