Who should go to jail?

[John99]

He should have shot them both and plead that he thought they were burglers trying to rob his home!

If he killed both of them he would stand a better chance of 'getting off' if he told the truth.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/crime+of+passion

 

[TW Scott]

i agree she was in the wrong. However if he didnt have a loaded gun the man would never have died at all. A punch to the nose will disable rather than kill as will a punch under the ribs, once she was free from the "atacker" going inside and calling the police would be a start.

People have died of a five mile an hour soft ball hitting them in the exact wrong case. Necks have been broken by falling as little as four feet. You cannot guaratee the man woyuld be alive. There is the chance it had been a serial rapist/killer. Punching one of those is quick way to be added to the list of victims.

Oh and im glad i live in a sociaty that arests those who carry offencive weaponry, as an ambo the less situations i go into where guns and knives are a threat the better. As for proicuting offences yourself you can tenchnically, though the atorny general can denie you the right because if you lose then double jepody is still atached (if the DPP wants to proicute a case its better that HE does than joe blow)

Well, i am glad you are happy you live there. And i fervently hope that you never come to rue that very happiness some day. Still does not change the fact that your country has gone from much less criome per capita than the US to the same level. unfortunately ours is dropping and yours rising.....

More gun owners will be killed by there OWN guns than have to defend themselves with them. That god that the guns and knives are off the streets in England and Australia

Oh, I see you ascribe to the theory that only people who have shot is self defense have defended themselves with a gun. I could explain how generally incorrect this is but it would probably be wasted effort. Suffice it to say, that merely carrying a gun is statistically safer than not.

 

[pjdude1219]

People have died of a five mile an hour soft ball hitting them in the exact wrong case. Necks have been broken by falling as little as four feet. You cannot guaratee the man woyuld be alive. There is the chance it had been a serial rapist/killer. Punching one of those is quick way to be added to the list of victims.



Well, i am glad you are happy you live there. And i fervently hope that you never come to rue that very happiness some day. Still does not change the fact that your country has gone from much less criome per capita than the US to the same level. unfortunately ours is dropping and yours rising.....



Oh, I see you ascribe to the theory that only people who have shot is self defense have defended themselves with a gun. I could explain how generally incorrect this is but it would probably be wasted effort. Suffice it to say, that merely carrying a gun is statistically safer than not.

um owning a gun makes you more likely to die or have some one die.

 

[TW Scott]

um owning a gun makes you more likely to die or have some one die.

Not true. Many people carry a guin and have never even fired it to deter crime. You'd be surprised how quickly someon decides to just leave alone if they even see a suspicious lump. Gun Control advocates like to use the lines like the one above to scare people into disarming the average citizen. What they fail to realize is that an unarmed population is easy prey for those would do so.

 

[Asguard]

the crime rates in australia are MUCH lower for all but petty crimes. Yes shop lifting is on the rise due to economic circumstances and unfortunatly traffic offences are back up again which is a major problem but orgnised crime is down since parana was formed and the murder rate is about 300 per year

 

[pjdude1219]

Not true. Many people carry a guin and have never even fired it to deter crime. You'd be surprised how quickly someon decides to just leave alone if they even see a suspicious lump. Gun Control advocates like to use the lines like the one above to scare people into disarming the average citizen. What they fail to realize is that an unarmed population is easy prey for those would do so.

yes it is true numerous reports have reached that conclusion.

 

[TW Scott]

the crime rates in australia are MUCH lower for all but petty crimes. Yes shop lifting is on the rise due to economic circumstances and unfortunatly traffic offences are back up again which is a major problem but orgnised crime is down since parana was formed and the murder rate is about 300 per year

Much lower totals than the US, yes, I agree, however the per capita is about the same. It used to be much lower but since the ban on firearms has climbed. It might be on a slight decline at the moment, but still up form before the ban.

 

[Asguard]

actually no, the per capita amounts are lower as well

Edit to add: the only thing that went up post howards gun laws was an small increase in knife crimes because guns went readly avilable. That has gone down again with stricter knife controls and better siezure rates by coustems. You need to rember that some crime does fluturate dependent on coustoms efforts because we live on an island. Things need to be either manifactured here or imported by ship or plane because there is no land to walk over.

 

[John99]

Asguard, i am curious to know where does the illegal contraband come from that fllood's Australia? That is even if it is a problem.

I mean drugs and guns mostly.

 

[TW Scott]

yes it is true numerous reports have reached that conclusion.

No, numerous gun control advocates have preached this. Reports are actually completely contradictory. But I never ascribed gun control advocates with common sense or truthfulness. they fail to realize that they absolutely do not have the right to limit other peoples rights. If they don;t want to carry a gun, that is fine, but they should not be allowed to tell me I can't.

 

[TW Scott]

actually no, the per capita amounts are lower as well.

Lower than before the ban, or just a few points lower than the US currently? Your missing the point. You went from ridiculously low crime rate with high profile to a much higher crime rate, with a lower profuile. Meanwhile the US has gone from a much higher crime rate to a lower one. Australia may be lower than the US, but it is not by much if at all. Which is a huge change form before your gun ban when you were MUCH lower.

 

[Asguard]

depends on the product, anphetamines tend to be manifactured here with raw chemicals illegally imported or sorced from corupt police. Weed is grown here, the largest portion being people growing indervidual plants. Cochaine and heroin are imported which is why the street value for these drugs flutuates so much (as heoin prices went up the ice epidemic started)

As for guns and knives they are generally imported, i dont know of any manifacturing plants in australia.

This was why the painters and dockers union was so dominated by organised crime until it was outlawed. Purana did a great job at cleaning up the organised crime but its coustoms who have the biggest job in dealing with these sorts of crimes and they rely to some exstent on luck as do the importers

 

[pjdude1219]

No, numerous gun control advocates have preached this. Reports are actually completely contradictory. But I never ascribed gun control advocates with common sense or truthfulness. they fail to realize that they absolutely do not have the right to limit other peoples rights. If they don;t want to carry a gun, that is fine, but they should not be allowed to tell me I can't.

i have never ascribed anyone you off handly generalizes a group of people as being intelligent. and why is it that gun ownership is the only right conservatives give a fuck about. And common sense would dictate that the closer in proximty your are to greater concentrations of a said weapon the more likely you are to be harmed by said weapon. And most gun control advocates don't want to keep guns away from law abiding people they want to make sure the nuts don't get them.

 

[TW Scott]

Explain this from your own government.

And don't give me malarky about just more friendly police taking statements, if that was true the US would be staying even and the other country would still have been below it if they had lower crime rates.


Trends in recorded violent crime in England and Wales, the United States, Canada, and Australia, rate per 100,000 persons, 1962-2004

Note: Violent crime comprises homicide, assault, sexual assault and robbery. Time periods charted reflect the availability of consistent, nationwide data for each country

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi115.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/01/2151925.htm

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

 

[Asguard]

Ok this (if it works) is from the ABS, take a look at the murder rate per capita especially.

 

[TW Scott]

i have never ascribed anyone you off handly generalizes a group of people as being intelligent. and why is it that gun ownership is the only right conservatives give a fuck about. And common sense would dictate that the closer in proximty your are to greater concentrations of a said weapon the more likely you are to be harmed by said weapon. And most gun control advocates don't want to keep guns away from law abiding people they want to make sure the nuts don't get them.

Actually i am concerned with all rights. Freedom of Speach, Freedom of Religion, Freedom form unwarranted serches and so on. However I realize, as a rational human being, that without some way to check the governments power that they mean squat. I also realize the most qualified person to protect you in a time of danger, is yourself. Police only respond if you can signal them and there is ALWAYS a delay.

Also gun control laws only keep guns out the hands of law abiding citizens. 99% of the time a criminal or nut gets his gun illegally, off the street. There is no background check at the back end of Fast Eddies van.

Finally if more of our society was armed, there actually would be a lot less violence. What idiot is going to risk his life mugging some little old lady if they think she might have a snubnose .38? Sure murders will still happen, but honestly guns are such a minor percentage it's not even funny.

 

[TW Scott]

Ok this (if it works) is from the ABS, take a look at the murder rate per capita especially.

Murder rate has nothing to do with guns most of the time. And Australia's murder rate has not actually dropped or raised enough to make a statistacl difference. However Murder is not the only crime in anation. Your Assaults doubled in just a short time after the gun ban and have satyued high.

 

[Asguard]

DAM IT
Ok here is the link
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/ECFAF68AB75AE9E3CA256DEA00053A5A

The murder rate per capita out of interest has fallen across from 97 to 2002 from 1.7 to 1.6

As for your graph it shows nothing because it doesnt show what it actually represents

 

[Asguard]

Assult rates ok then, if you look at the link i gave you, you will see yes assults are rising but robbery is falling so what does that tell you?

Could it be the rise in assult rates is actually a reflection of the increased reporting of domestic vilonce?

Assult can be alot of things including forced medical treatment so an increase in the raw data for assult rates actually says nothing

 

[Asguard]

oh and last but not least

Between 1993 and 2002 the proportion of murders, attempted murders and robberies involving the use of a weapon decreased (graph 11.12). The proportion of murders involving the use of a weapon peaked in 1996 at 78% while the proportion of attempted murders involving the use of a weapon peaked in 1997 at 87%.

The proportion of robberies where a weapon was used has fluctuated from 36% in 1994 and 1995 to 46% in 1998. Since 1998, this proportion has declined to 37%. For those robberies that involved the use of a weapon, the proportion of offences involving firearms decreased from 37% in 1993 to 15% in 2002.