I've already told you that that would negate freewill.
Who, other than a man, ever put voice to the will of God?
- Thread starter Greatest I am
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I've already told you that that would negate freewill.
Greatest I am
Valued Senior Member
And I told you that God does not respect free will in the least.
Ask all those he murdered who had the free will to live.
Only a fool would think that persuasion takes away more free will from someone than murdering them.
Regards
DL
Freewill requires that those exercising it have the possible freedom to hinder the freewill of others. This is logically independent from where freewill may or may not have come from.
For example, if freewill is simply an evolutionary endowment, its existence necessitates the possibility of one person hindering the freewill of another, just as I've said. Without making any unfounded assumptions, beyond what we observe, if freewill exists then logically this must be so. This a separate logical issue from whether a god may have granted it, and as such would be unchanged by the existence of a god either way.
Simply, if freewill exists, by any means, it must be potentially equal from one person to the next and consistent with our observations.
Now I get that you have problems reconciling that with the possible existence of a god, but the two are only naively incompatible. Both can coexist in a logically consistent manor.
That sounds awfully crushing, but it's not all that bad, you know. My will has often been messed with, knocked down, kicked, shoved aside, blah blah blah. But that's freewill in the freeway.Syne said:
Not where freewill can truly reign supreme: in our imaginations.
Greatest I am
Valued Senior Member
And that's exactly why a god could not interfere otherwise than through the extension of its freewill it granted humans. Consistency is necessary to value and meaning.
You can Mekigal to the list. Doing it did it yesterday and doing it tomorrow.
Me like that
Man put voice to the will of God
That is one great explanation .
Whose ya Man ?
Whose your sky Daddy?
The Haitian compared my presentation to Moses and his turn a stick into a snake act . Yeah I can see why they think that too. Turn a stick of wood into a thriving industry big enough to catapult them out of 3rd world status . You see it? You see similarity ? Have you ever been poor and had your wage doubled or even tripled ? The feeling of living a wonderful life. The iron fist of wages being lifted off the people burdened. Beast of burdens relieved of there chains. Restoration of motivation in a persons soul ( heart , Good vibrations , Endorphin rushes, What ever trips your trigger) A happy cow is a productive cow. All animal husbandry people know this.
Corporation is not going to like this . I am going to influence the market . Done it tested it and am going to do it on a huge scale. Not by my own will either. By the will of others . Kick in the ass to get it going is my best act
I already hypnotized thousands. Husss Woooo Blows on finger nails to dry my paint. You all know my gift of mesmerizing and hypnotizing. Ah yeah I seem to be pretty good at it in the long run .
Your all in trouble now .
Don't worry though
It will be better in the new morning.
Earth will be a better place
We will love the changes
A lot more fun than now
I don't want to be misconstrued
Haitians are not animals . They are herdsman.
The ones they herd are the self contained , self serving , fuck everyone else , which seems to Me from my new perspective seems to be most peoples hidden agenda. It is the things you do not what you say is the thing . You can can have the biggest bull shit story ever concocted , but in reality the information stream dictates the day. The vibration you put off by your ritualistic behavior. It is all about what you do. People are mean
I was surprised to how mean my wife really was . Fuck that caught Me off guard Klown. You fucker . You upset my happy world of denial .
I love my wife so don't go spreading rumors. She is a fucking Saint compared to millions upon millions
She Hurt Me when I hypnotized her and got some straight answers out of her . It really hurt my friends. Reading minds or to say drawing out the truth is not all bowls of cherry.
So I heard it in a song a few years ago but had no idea it applied to my life . Denial is a strong force that keeps you from facing that thing you don't want to face cause well it might be true. It don't help when people pussy foot around an cover up with deceitfulness. Fuckers , Fuck you . Fuck you
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Greatest I am
Valued Senior Member
Killing someone is interfering with their free will to live. God is no respecter of free will.
With his pocket full of miracles, any God who kills instead of cures is immoral.
God never granted humans anything, let alone free will.
Free will is something that is taken and cannot be given unless it was withheld in the first place.
Regards
DL
Since when have you witnessed a god kill anyone? Freewill doesn't exist unless cause and effect are allowed unimpeded.
So we "took" freewill from evolution?! If not, who or what did we take it from?
Greatest I am
Valued Senior Member
Imaginary Gods cannot be seen doing anything but believers will see God killing all over scriptures and negating our free will to live.
And yes, free will is in us through evolution.
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.
That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."
But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that it is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.
Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.
Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.
Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.
Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.
This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.
Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should see that what Christians see as something to blame, we should see that what we have, deserves a huge thanks where it belongs. God or nature.
There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be.
Regards
DL
Humans wouldn't be what they are without "human nature". People choose what they believe to be in the interests of their survival. This is not the fault of a god, or the nature it may impart. It is simply the liability of belief. To allow for the exercise of freewill, man must often arrive at decisions with incomplete knowledge. Eve would have thought it was in her best interest to acquire more knowledge, i.e. "the knowledge of God". Humans would not persist, as a species, without being capable of evaluating their own survival needs without having access to all the facts.
A human can interfere with the life of another human without violating their free will. God can do the same. That's what omnipotence means.
Completely illogical. You'd need to provide an example to support making such an inconsistent claim.
You would have to explain what's inconsistent about it.
It should be mind-numbingly obvious. How do you hinder someone's will without hindering their will? If you are not hindering a person's will then you are not interfering with their life.
Because interacting with someone doesn't interfere with their will. For instance I'm a doctor and I cure you of disease, but you always remain in control of what you think and what you do. Free will is more of a philosophical thing, it doesn't really have anything to do with inhibiting your movement. Conversely an automaton doesn't have free will, but no one controls or restricts it.
You didn't say "interacting", you said "interfere":
spidergoat said:
So now you seem to be moving the goal posts, as well as more non sequitur about an "automaton".
You're just the neighborhood troll aren't you?
I'm sorry if you don't understand the concept of free will. You could be tied in a straitjacket and you would still have free will.
Freedom of action is the freedom to accomplish will, and it is part of the definition of freewill to make "meaningful choices", as meaningless choices do not demonstrate freewill, and are thus not objective.
But this is just a further evasion and further moving of the goal posts. Seems you are the neighborhood troll. Good to know.
But this is just a further evasion and further moving of the goal posts. Seems you are the neighborhood troll. Good to know.
OK, and when I want to debate wikipedia, I'll know where to go.