Who designed the designer?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
That is an interesting opinion.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I have not heard evidence being called self evident.

Alex
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I think you would rather have a dollar for every time that you have heard evidence being called self-evident, wouldn't you?
 
Seattle said:
I think you would rather have a dollar for every time that you have heard evidence being called self-evident, wouldn't you?
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Well honestly I have not heard the expression until I came here.
I suppose it is widely used but I can't see how the approach is not circular.
Why could you not consider there may be many Gods, it would make sense to spread the work load.
Just having one of something seems odd really.
Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
It has been clear to me all the while Jan.
I know you will not alter my belief and actually I have never intended to change yours and suggest that your realisation probably is not in step with your belief that somehow others will come over to your side due to your presentation of what you consider to be strong facts.
I think it is cute how folk believe in Santa, the devil, God and all the fairy tales it shows they have wonderful and special imaginations.
But my request for evidence is more a request about why you believe what you do, and it dies not have to be evidence that will convince me, just something that gives me an idea why you believe, clearly there is no real evidence of God as it would have been presented by you or someone by now.
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That's just it Alex, God is simply imaginary to you. That is because of your comprehension of what God is. There is no evidence that will make you accept God, because as I said earlier, you are impervious to God. It's not simply that there is no evidence that can satisfy you, you know that there is no evidence that can satisfy you, and you are okay with that. All these types of conversations only serve as ways to block any notion of God, by demanding something for which you know will not materialise, and thereby justifying your position, more and more.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
It can be whatever type of claim you wish.
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You didn't say that.
Could you answer the question?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
Perhaps you fail to see my concern.
But if you can choose between inspiration and delusion with entire confidence I could understand it will not be a problem for you.
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Again you have dodged my question.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
It is many things to many people I call it a religious book.
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What kind of things can the bible be?
What is a ''religious book''?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I would consider any evidence but as with many things I am sceptical.
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Such as?
Why are you sceptical?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
It seems there have been others in history with the same or very similar stories and Jesus story was not written until after at least a couple of generations after his death.
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Obviously you haven't done much research into those stories, but even then, why would it mean that Jesus never existed?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
One has a choice to either simply believe the bible or to look at history.
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We don't ''choose'' to believe anything. We suddenly find ourselves believing things, because belief takes time to really manifest.
You will find that the majority of historian agree that Jesus existed. Would that convince you?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
You have no idea how funny that sounds Jan but given you are serious I suggest your difficulty whatever it may be can be overcome by presenting exhibit "A"... We call it "A" because it will be the first piece of evidence so as exhibits accumulate they are easy to manage, certainly a problem that probably won't present itself here.
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Imagine what ''exhibit A'' would have to be, to convince a hardened white supremacist that black people are as human as white people. I doubt one could come up with anything.
As I said, you are impervious to evidence of God. You simply will not see it.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I only hope you can find enlightenment Jan.
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I hope we all do.

jan.
 
river said:
In the end Jan

You and everyone else has gotten nowhere .

God is either , Abrahamic based or is a Universal creater of life .

Either god is an ancient space being , alien . Or god is in all things .

Which is it ?
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Go and find out for yourself.

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
That's just it Alex, God is simply imaginary to you. That is because of your comprehension of what God is. There is no evidence that will make you accept God, because as I said earlier, you are impervious to God. It's not simply that there is no evidence that can satisfy you, you know that there is no evidence that can satisfy you, and you are okay with that. All these types of conversations only serve as ways to block any notion of God, by demanding something for which you know will not materialise, and thereby justifying your position, more and more.
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You could be right Jan but if there is a God maybe he keeps me around to stop complacency in the believers.
My irritation comes from the way humans make stuff up and attribute it to God.
If there is a God I doubt if he cares about humans any more than any other creature.
If he cared he would do something to stop the cruelty to humans and animals.
And I will look at evidence.
So far the evidence is more supportive of my view than any believers view.
I had a " religious" experience once and really thought God was talking to me. Not in words but an overwhelming feeling that I had been chosen to do a certain thing.
Lucky I had not succumbed as I would still be on a pointless quest.
Who knows maybe I was the one and missed the call.
Anyways if honesty counts for anything I think he will be happy with the way I have lived.
Jan Ardena said:
Could you answer the question?
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No.
I won't play games because I am confident you understand what I say.
If I thought you had a problem understanding my meaning I would help out.
Jan Ardena said:
Again you have dodged my question.
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If you wish to ask a question present it in detail and I will do my best to provide you with an honest answer.
Jan Ardena said:
What kind of things can the bible be?
What is a ''religious book''?
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The bible can only be one thing and that is a book.
A "religious book" is a " religious book"...a book relating to religion...not a book on wood work.
Jan Ardena said:
Why are you sceptical?
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I found out Santa was made up first, then that many folk are fools, and many folk are liars, and many folk are simply full of crap.
Also being in law and later real estate you work out that not everyone is decent and honest.
Some lie some are deluded some are stupid and unfortunately one remembers negative experience and uses it to frame future engagements with others.
If they are OK no problem if not it is best to find out and treat them accordingly.
Jan Ardena said:
Obviously you haven't done much research into those stories, but even then, why would it mean that Jesus never existed?
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There seems that there was a trend to personify and relate to the heavens.
Do you reject this?
Now given there seems to be many who used similar personification routines is it not reasonable to wonder why Jesus is presented similar.
My conclusion is he was probably just another running this game.
He may or may not have existed and the point is we don't know.
The or resurrection parallels the Suns behaviour at the end of winter so you can accept that it was a lie or a demi God was sent to some obscure place to minister to one group.
Balance it all and Jesus seems to be just another man claiming to be the son of God, but who knows...that is finally the point...no one knows anything but happy to make up stuff.
Jan Ardena said:
You will find that the majority of historian agree that Jesus existed.
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That simply is not correct.
The big problem for Christians is that the is no record outside the bible, which will not be objective.
Jan Ardena said:
Would that convince you?
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A composite of evidence from various reliable sources of the times.
Jan Ardena said:
Imagine what ''exhibit A'' would have to be, to convince a hardened white supremacist that black people are as human as white people. I doubt one could come up with anything.
As I said, you are impervious to evidence of God. You simply will not see it.
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Jan I am a reasonable man I will look at what you offer and give it my absolute respect and only then will I reject it.

Hope all is good for you Jan and hope you enjoy Xmas.
Have a look at the three kings in Orion and line them up with Sirius to see if they point to where the Sun rises.
Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Who knows maybe I was the one and missed the call.
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For me I don't get any message from god because I think if if if he exist and keeps trying to call me he must be close to breaking point with my answering machine

You have reached the private number of Michael. If you know me you know the routine. If you don't know me piss off
BEEEEP

Never heard anything from anyone other than friends, and remember god is 'sposed to know me

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
You have reached the private number of Michael. If you know me you know the routine. If you don't know me piss off
BEEEEP
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I don't answer the land line because its always a tele marketer.
But ready for some fun the other day I answered.
Hullo Mr E this is Nicolle how are you today.
Oh I am so good Nicolle I am so glad you rang I have been thinking about you since the other night, you little fox.
She continued and so did I.
After a while I agreed she wasn't Nicolle and hung up.

Based on the drift of that call I am going to be more creative for the next caller, male or female.

I am just now preparing some Xmas treats melting the laxetts and making the goo into little stars and bells to slip into the sweet bowl at the family get together.

And so I wish you a happy time for the Xmas break.
I think I will do christian and pagan celebrations to make sure all the bases are covered.
Happy birthday Jesus and all hail the magnificent Sun.

Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
I guessed you missed my request for evidence in support of your opinion.

How do you know God was not created?
How do you know the devil was created?
Alex
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I wouldn't know, it's just as you said my opinion. God wouldn't be created He would wish to be. The devil wasn't necessarily created but belief were perfct for an eternity always before (alpha) until Satan scoffed the angel of existence and our own consciousness became aware of hell all of a sudden.
 
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