who caused evil

ashura said:
By that logic, since the real world is a reality that God, for some reason, created, maintains, etc, this is his world, his universe and he allows all the suffering in the world.
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And perhaps he allows it because he knows something that you don't know.

Baron Max
 
god can't hold us completly responsible for not choosing the right religion becuase there are so many how are we to know wich one is the right one.
 
Baron Max said:
Sounds like pure idealistic bullshit with no connection to the realities of the world or to the people who populate it.

Baron Max
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Well it sounds like that definitely, yes, but just think about it, while dreaming, upon realizing that it's just a dream, you will no longer have any suffering, you will know the truth, in the sameway, upon realizing reality is just another meaningless super-dream-like thing, there will no be more stress, no more anger, fear, sorrow, etc....no more suffering...how could there be?

You will also get powers like walking on water, transforming matter, etc...just like how in a dream you would be able to do anything if you realized it was just a dream.....

Ofcourse reality is not the same as a dream, it just has many similarities...

ashura said:
By that logic, since the real world is a reality that God, for some reason, created, maintains, etc, this is his world, his universe and he allows all the suffering in the world. What a bastard. :)
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Yeah but God is within you, in the beginning everyone was with God, dwelling in the kingdom of God, and had no suffering, but then for some reason we all chose to be seperate from God, so this is the consequence....
 
VitalOne said:
Yeah but God is within you, in the beginning everyone was with God, dwelling in the kingdom of God, and had no suffering, but then for some reason we all chose to be seperate from God, so this is the consequence....
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Who is "we" referring to? I don't remember choosing to leave the kingdom of God.
 
geeser said:
who brought evil into the world?

And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the LORD; what should I wait for the LORD any longer 2 Kings 6:33
so we can gather from this, the loving god of the bible uses evil.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
and we can gather from this, that this loving god created evil and is proud of it.

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6
and from this we can gather, wherever there is evil, god is the instigator

all from KJV
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just like the sun 'creates' shadow
 
ashura said:
So, God didn't have a choice in the creation of evil? It's just a byproduct of his existence?
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god can certainly chose the nature of his byproducts - and its fortunate that such 'evil' is a byproduct, since if it wasn't the rebellious living entity wouldn't have a medium to work through their material desires, which would also further complicate the issue of how a living entity could express their free will
 
lightgigantic said:
god can certainly chose the nature of his byproducts - and its fortunate that such 'evil' is a byproduct, since if it wasn't the rebellious living entity wouldn't have a medium to work through their material desires, which would also further complicate the issue of how a living entity could express their free will
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So, it isn't like how the sun 'creates' a shadow. And God chose to create evil. I think we're in agreement actually.
 
ashura said:
So, it isn't like how the sun 'creates' a shadow. And God chose to create evil. I think we're in agreement actually.
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the sun analogy indicates how an entity(the sun) can be the cause of something (shadow) that bears no resemblance and has no expression on itself - in other words just like the sun is not a shadow, god is not evil - which was the whole push of the OP
 
lightgigantic said:
the sun analogy indicates how an entity(the sun) can be the cause of something (shadow) that bears no resemblance and has no expression on itself - in other words just like the sun is not a shadow, god is not evil - which was the whole push of the OP
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But the sun analogy doesn't work. Shadow is a byproduct of the sun's existence, where as the creation of evil was a choice made by God. One is unintentional, the other intentional.
 
ashura said:
But the sun analogy doesn't work. Shadow is a byproduct of the sun's existence, where as the creation of evil was a choice made by God. One is unintentional, the other intentional.
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its the nature of an analogy to share some parallels but not all of them (- I am not arguing that the sun is god -) I am arguing that just as the sun is the cause of shadow despite being bereft of shadow, god is the cause of evil despite being bereft of evil
 
lightgigantic said:
its the nature of an analogy to share some parallels but not all of them (- I am not arguing that the sun is god -) I am arguing that just as the sun is the cause of shadow despite being bereft of shadow, god is the cause of evil despite being bereft of evil
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You wouldn't call the creation of evil... well, evil?
 
original said:
Would you call the creation of shadows a shadow?
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Depends if the creation was intentional or not.

EDIT: Er, heh, just realized that makes no sense at all. I meant to say, that doesn't totally apply to evil. A shadow is something physical. I can create one right now. But evil is an idea, a concept. The creation of it, if it's intentional, is evil.

Sort of like how kindness from one person to another can create kindness in others.
 
ashura said:
Depends if the creation was intentional or not.

EDIT: Er, heh, just realized that makes no sense at all. I meant to say, that doesn't totally apply to evil. A shadow is something physical. I can create one right now. But evil is an idea, a concept. The creation of it, if it's intentional, is evil.

Sort of like how kindness from one person to another can create kindness in others.
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what is the purpose of evil in this world is to enable us to better appreciate the nature of god?
even in mundane affairs there are examples of how evil can lead to kindness - in fact acts of kindness become most potent when performed in the greater context of evil, since they stand to be more greatly appreciated
 
lightgigantic said:
what is the purpose of evil in this world is to enable us to better appreciate the nature of god?
even in mundane affairs there are examples of how evil can lead to kindness - in fact acts of kindness become most potent when performed in the greater context of evil, since they stand to be more greatly appreciated
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So, when the mother of a murdered child asks you why God let this happen, you'd tell her it's because God wanted other good things to be appreciated more?
 
ashura said:
So, when the mother of a murdered child asks you why God let this happen, you'd tell her it's because God wanted other good things to be appreciated more?
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emotional circumstances are not the best for discussing philosophy - philosophy however can determine the nature of emotional circumstances

;)
 
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