who caused evil

[geeser]

who brought evil into the world?

And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the LORD; what should I wait for the LORD any longer 2 Kings 6:33
so we can gather from this, the loving god of the bible uses evil.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
and we can gather from this, that this loving god created evil and is proud of it.

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6
and from this we can gather, wherever there is evil, god is the instigator

all from KJV

 

[Mosheh Thezion]

GOD created everything....

including the devil.. satan... lucifer...

so yes... he created evil... as part of the free will ying yang of this universe.

99% of that evil.... is in man.

man... has always been the instrument threw which all evil acts are commited.

the battle between good and evil... is within our own hearts and minds.

and losing... is not an option.

although.... as is clearly evident... most men... lose that battle.

-MT

 

[original]

 

[VitalOne]

YOU created evil with your own ignorance....without ignorance evil can no longer exist...

 

[geeser]

Yo mamma!!!

yes mummy, was a naughty girl.

YOU created evil with your own ignorance

how am I ignorant, I posted the scriptures, which in itself shows I'm quite aware, and informed.

GOD created everything....
including the devil.. satan... lucifer...
so yes... he created evil... as part of the free will ying yang of this universe.
99% of that evil.... is in man.

we are gods creation so a 100% must be in him, we can not be held accountable according to the scriptures
And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the LORD; what should I wait for the LORD any longer 2 Kings 6:33
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6

man... has always been the instrument threw which all evil acts are commited.

unless of course, when he did it himself.

 

[KennyJC]

so yes... he created evil... as part of the free will ying yang of this universe.

The free will copout... boy that's original. Unlike the theists to make things up as they go along LOL!

We have the ability to be 'evil', but not the ability to shapeshift, so we don't have perfect free will. Without evil we would just have a lesser degree of free will.

 

[Baron Max]

YOU created evil with your own ignorance....without ignorance evil can no longer exist...

Hmm, are you saying that there are no smart evil men?

In some cases, some crimes, some evil deeds, it takes a pretty damned smart man to pull it off. What do you think of people like that? Surely you can't call them ignorant, can you?

And "...without ignorance, evil can no longer exist.."?? I wonder how you arrived at that theory or postulate?

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

The free will copout... boy that's original. Unlike the theists to make things up as they go along LOL!

We have the ability to be 'evil', but not the ability to shapeshift, so we don't have perfect free will. Without evil we would just have a lesser degree of free will.

Hmm, I'm rather curious what exactly you mean by all that?

For example, if one is a theist, it's only natural for him to turn to the concepts of the Bible ...in which case the ideal of free will is clearly defined and stated.

If one is an atheist, then the concept of free will is one of the basics principles of human rights and freedom from oppression.

So ...how is it a cop-out in any sense of the term?

And that last sentence is ...pretty odd, too. Can you explain that a little better, more clearly perhaps?

Baron Max

 

[Balerion]

We have the ability to be 'evil', but not the ability to shapeshift, so we don't have perfect free will. Without evil we would just have a lesser degree of free will.

What? Free will just means that you can make whatever choice you want. It doesn't mean that you can bend space-time, bro. If your travel leads you to three doors...then you can pick any of them.

And there is no evil. There's varying levels of mental instability...but not evil.

 

[KennyJC]

For example, if one is a theist, it's only natural for him to turn to the concepts of the Bible ...in which case the ideal of free will is clearly defined and stated.

Are you stating that the Bible wasn't made up as it went along? I think that's the way fiction works.

What? Free will just means that you can make whatever choice you want. It doesn't mean that you can bend space-time, bro. If your travel leads you to three doors...then you can pick any of them.

Well yes, and I wish to choose to be a different shape - god could have afforded me that ability if he really is as great as his followers say he is. Therefor we don't have complete free will. And if 'free will' is limited to only mental choice, then technically we would still have free will without the need for 'evil'. What other parameters did god choose not to gift us with? There must be infinite possibilities.

 

[Baron Max]

Are you stating that the Bible wasn't made up as it went along? I think that's the way fiction works.

I don't know, ...but you seem so very sure, do you have evidence to back up your assertions? Or is that just your "beliefs"???

Well yes, and I wish to choose to be a different shape - god could have afforded me that ability if he really is as great as his followers say he is. Therefor we don't have complete free will.

But why do you assume that, just because he didn't give it to us, that he couldn't have done it? Is that just another one of your "beliefs"??

And what exactly is "complete free will"? You mean anything and everything that we might want to do or be or turn into or become or.....?

And if 'free will' is limited to only mental choice, then technically we would still have free will without the need for 'evil'.

If we all have free will, and evil is something inside us in varying degrees(as I believe), then to NOT use that evil is also a limit of the very free will that you seem to want and need. I mean, if you don't want to do evil, that's fine, but what if someone else wants to do evil things ...surely you wouldn't limit HIS free will, would you?

What other parameters did god choose not to gift us with? There must be infinite possibilities.

Sure, probably infinite. But he decided not to give it all to us ...perhaps he knew just how evil you can be if you want to.

Baron Max

 

[KennyJC]

I don't know, ...but you seem so very sure, do you have evidence to back up your assertions? Or is that just your "beliefs"???

Oh, you got me there... I just read it there and seems obvious that it's non-fiction.

But why do you assume that, just because he didn't give it to us, that he couldn't have done it? Is that just another one of your "beliefs"??

I assume that because an intelligent creator so vast, would be capable of more than one design for a universe like this.

And what exactly is "complete free will"? You mean anything and everything that we might want to do or be or turn into or become or.....?

Complete free will is to have something realized if you want it. Jesus could shapeshift objects.. turning mud into small animals. I want to do that, except I would make girls in bikini's, and their primary desire is to put fleshy things in their mouths.

If we all have free will, and evil is something inside us in varying degrees(as I believe), then to NOT use that evil is also a limit of the very free will that you seem to want and need. I mean, if you don't want to do evil, that's fine, but what if someone else wants to do evil things ...surely you wouldn't limit HIS free will, would you?

If evil didn't exist we would be non the wiser, and we'd still think we'd have free will. Just like MT is sitting here saying we have free will when he doesn't know what god left out of the blueprints.

 

[darksidZz]

Christianity is what caused evil

 

[Baron Max]

Christianity is what caused evil.

I think there just migth have been evil on the Earth before Christianity came along. Maybe Christians just put the name to it.

I'm a firm believer that evil people actually are born that way. I don't believe that a regular, ol' normal person could do real and true evil ...except perhaps in a fit of monstrous rage. No, I think evil people are born, just like "saints" are born. The rest of us just float along somewhere in the middle.

Baron Max

 

[Balerion]

Oh, you got me there... I just read it there and seems obvious that it's non-fiction.

I'd say it's a nice load of fiction, personally.

Complete free will is to have something realized if you want it. Jesus could shapeshift objects.. turning mud into small animals. I want to do that, except I would make girls in bikini's, and their primary desire is to put fleshy things in their mouths.

Are you a theist, Kenny? I ask this because if you're not, your argument is ridiculous. In the fantasy world created in the Bible, you'd be right...but in the real world, free will is exactly what we have. The real world doesn't include things like shape-shifting, bro. Well...I mean, there's an octopus that seems to be able to change its entire color scheme, and make itself look like about a dozen different undersea creatures...but in reality, that isn't an option in the real world.

 

[GeoffP]

OK, it was us. We caused evil.

[enc]East Korea[/enc].

 

[KennyJC]

I'd say it's a nice load of fiction, personally.

Absolutely! But wouldn't it be insufferable if billions worldwide took Humpty Dumptie and the Kings Men as literal history? Then don't forget the people who in the age of reason are mere apologists who use verbal aerobatics to make it sound rational to be a Humpty Dumptie believer.

Are you a theist, Kenny? I ask this because if you're not, your argument is ridiculous.

It's actually ridiculous either way.

 

[VitalOne]

Hmm, are you saying that there are no smart evil men?

In some cases, some crimes, some evil deeds, it takes a pretty damned smart man to pull it off. What do you think of people like that? Surely you can't call them ignorant, can you?

And "...without ignorance, evil can no longer exist.."?? I wonder how you arrived at that theory or postulate?

Baron Max

Well it has nothing to do with being "smart" or not in that sense...ignorance as in your own thoughts....just think of a bad dream....you have bad dreams because of your own bad thoughts which come from your own ignorance...therefore since this is just your personal reality for some reason you caused, maintain, create, etc...all your suffering intentionally and unintentionally....this is also your own world, your own universe, so you allow all the suffering in the world...

With true knowledge and upon realizing the actual truth there would be no more suffering, you would see things as they are...

 

[Baron Max]

With true knowledge and upon realizing the actual truth there would be no more suffering, you would see things as they are...

Sounds like pure idealistic bullshit with no connection to the realities of the world or to the people who populate it.

Baron Max

 

[ashura]

Well it has nothing to do with being "smart" or not in that sense...ignorance as in your own thoughts....just think of a bad dream....you have bad dreams because of your own bad thoughts which come from your own ignorance...therefore since this is just your personal reality for some reason you caused, maintain, create, etc...all your suffering intentionally and unintentionally....this is also your own world, your own universe, so you allow all the suffering in the world...

With true knowledge and upon realizing the actual truth there would be no more suffering, you would see things as they are...

By that logic, since the real world is a reality that God, for some reason, created, maintains, etc, this is his world, his universe and he allows all the suffering in the world. What a bastard.