Which is the more enlightened way to think?

[Michael]

Umm so sitting around on your ass and expecting charity for it is to be admired because a Nepali Prince who may be mythological did it? Nice ideology you have there. Daddy had the money to pay the bills so the son could sit on his ass for decades. Its a luxury not available to nonprinces, hence the bhikshu tradition. Imagine making a religion out of sitting on your ass doing nothing.

Why don't you try it for a few days and tell me what it feels like?



Of course you do. You think multiculturalism is Walmart + MacDonalds, with everyone speaking one language and wearing the same clothes.

Firsly, lets just agree Buddha, like Mohammad, Mosses and Jesus, is simply a literary character. Now, in this story Buddha could have lived a spoilt life but instead seems to have tried to live a noble life by attempting to figure out a way to understand the human condition and offer people a path to a peaceful existence.

Interestingly I know people, like Reza or some Japanese people I know, who use the techniques that Buddha (the character) concocted to help them live peaceful lives. Oh, they still work 40+ hours/week, they have families, they have children, etc... but they use these techniques to be peaceful. Now, it seems to me that his time spent "thinking" was worth the few nuts people gave him.

Anyway, when it comes down to it, Philosophizing is a job. I mean come on, if someone spends their life doing sculpture SAM, is this also a lazy self-indulgence life? No wonder Islam produced no Opera, little art, little music, and in some places ban the arts, like song and music and Ballet. Well, I for one think life is better with the Arts and I think societies with Arts (like Philosophy) are better.

Self/cultural-hatred doesn't suite you, I think you are arguing just to argue. I mean, seriously SAM, reread C again

Oh, and I don't want to see a monocultureal world. But, in my society it is multicultureal. That doesn't mean I want Japan to become the USA. No way. Or China. etc.... or KSA or etc... BUT, I also won't support cultures aspects that cut against my morals - like Institutionalized Slavery.

 

[swarm]

Ah no wonder. The Buddha never made much sense to me, unrealistic sort of chap..

The Buddha was "d."

 

[S.A.M.]

Has Reza ever performed salat? Interestingly its the same "technique" that Buddhists use to meditate. So thats that.

I think your ignorance of Islamic art and music and dance is equal to Reza's. From prior experience I know that any education on the above leaks from your mind like water in a sieve so I will consider it unnecessary to repeat what the contributions are. Suffice to say that you or Reza are not an authority that anyone will consider for Muslim contributions.

Seriously, a man sits on his butt for decades and this gives him the authority to decide that some people are worthy enough to live on charity and I should appreciate this? Really?

I suggest you get a begging bowl and live like Gautama for a year. Come back and tell me how enlightened you feel at the end of it.

 

[Michael]

Has Reza ever performed salat? Interestingly its the same "technique" that Buddhists use to meditate. So thats that.

I think your ignorance of Islamic art and music and dance is equal to Reza's. From prior experience I know that any education on the above leaks from your mind like water in a sieve so I will consider it unnecessary to repeat what the contributions are. Suffice to say that you or Reza are not an authority that anyone will consider for Muslim contributions.

Seriously, a man sits on his butt for decades and this gives him the authority to decide that some people are worthy enough to live on charity and I should appreciate this? Really?

I suggest you get a begging bowl and live like Gautama for a year. Come back and tell me how enlightened you feel at the end of it.

Well, I was thinking of your Taliban like mentality you've decided to take in this thread. Which is why I said I think you are pissy and just want to argue, to, I don't know, to feel a bit better.

Reza grew up Muslim so he must have done the prayers. Actually, I went to a meditation retreat with him (I went insane not talking for 3 days and came back more stressed) and anyway we did all sorts of meditations - some of which were Muslim based (or at least Iranian based ... a walking one if I remember correctly?) Reza said his prefered is Japanese Zen as it "takes you in the deepest" .. which actually, when described to me, seemed like a drug.

I'm still hopefully I get it some day. meh.. anyway....


As for sitting on his arse, you seem to forget he's a fracking literary character... come on, it's part of the story. Geesh.

What do you think about someone who spends 30 years writing an Opera? Or someone who spends 30 years working out a math problem? Archimedes supposedly spend ALL of his time thinking.

Lastly, think about this. In Classical Greece NOT working was the goal. Was Socrates was lazy self-indulgent arsehole? Maybe he'd say yes, but, I think no.

 

[swarm]

Umm so sitting around on your ass and [getting]charity for it is to be admired

I think some one is jealous. But really all religions are funded this way since the serve no useful purpose and just leech of their flocks. The mendicants are just a bit more direct about it.

 

[Michael]

I wonder if Communists would agree with you? I mean, they hated people who sat around thinking... work the land! Well, we see how that "real world" thinking worked. It didn't! Which is interesting isn't it?

 

[S.A.M.]

So lets see you practice what the chap you admire did.

Married yet? If not get married. Have a kid. Wait till the kid is a year old, then abandon family, job and taxes. [ rep]Move to a location under a tree. Sit. Think about life and death. When hungry, beg from passerbys or knock on doors and ask for bhiksha[/rep] Repeat from rep to /rep until enlightened.

Tell me what it feels like.

Lastly, think about this. In Classical Greece NOT working was the goal. Was Socrates was lazy self-indulgent arsehole? Maybe he'd say yes, but, I think no.

They were also pederasts. Would you call him a pedophile too? Or not?

Plato was among the first to analyze and critique the traditions of male love current in their time, the fourth century BC. His works document the teachings of Socrates, who appears to have favored chaste pederastic relationships, marked by a balance between desire and self-control. He pointedly criticized purely physical infatuations, for example by mocking Critias' lust for Euthydemus by comparing his behavior towards the boy to that of a "a piglet scratching itself against a rock" (Xenophon, Memorabilia 1.2.29-30). That, however, did not prevent him from frequenting the boy brothels, from which he bought and freed his future friend and student, Phaedo,[3] nor from describing his erotic intoxication upon glimpsing the beautiful Charmides' naked body beneath his open tunic (Plato, Charmides 155c-e).

I think some one is jealous. .

You're so right. I've often wished I had kids just so I could dump them. Such luck some people have :grumble:

I wish I was that enlightened. The ideal man. Who dumps a one year old kid to tell other people how to lead a good life <insert breathing exercises plus beauty contest speech on peace love and understanding>.

/sighs.

 

[iceaura]

Has Reza ever performed salat? Interestingly its the same "technique" that Buddhists use to meditate.

No, it isn't.

Nor do I think you have "seen what multiculturalism looks like in the US".

As far as the "most enlightened" way to think - tone of voice may be a key there. I can read pretty much any of those in a favorable or unfavorable tone.

 

[S.A.M.]

As far as the "most enlightened" way to think - tone of voice may be a key there. I can read pretty much any of those in a favorable or unfavorable tone.

What tone of voice do you suppose the most enlightened Socrates used in the boy brothels?

 

[Enmos]

hey hey we agree Oh, so why did you pick C?

Actually, anyone really, why did you make your choice?

'C' sort of defeats the purpose of faith, does it not ?

 

[DiamondHearts]

SAM, Reza is one of Michael's imaginary friends. Best to leave him to his delusions. He couldn't be sober when he created this thread.

 

[S.A.M.]

He has LOTs of Muslim friends. They all love his take on Islam and the prophet.

 

[Michael]

I wish I was that enlightened. The ideal man. Who dumps a one year old kid to tell other people how to lead a good life <insert breathing exercises plus beauty contest speech on peace love and understanding>.

/sighs.

Who said this Buddha character is ideal? If he left his wife and new born kid to fend for themselves on the streets - yeah, he sounds like a real arse hole. Actually, I've often felt it takes someone with some flaws to really understand humanity. Again, I never said in the story about this "Buddha" that the protagonist was "perfect". I said he came up with a means to have a peaceful human "real world" existence. Those means, however they were invented, do appear to be real.

See it's very easy for me to agree with you and say that this Buddha fellow was a jerk-off in this regards. Even if the composite was built around the actions of one person, come on, he was still just a person with all the flaws of any other person. Einstein was a great physicist, but her was also a jerk-off towards his wife. What's so hard about seeing that people are flawed?

Self-hatred SAM, not a good look.

 

[Michael]

'C' sort of defeats the purpose of faith, does it not ?

Why?

Believe it or not Enmos, you don't have to be an arse hole like position A or B and can still have faith that Xenu will come for you in his magcial flying saucer


It should also be noted that position A is taken with the attitude that ALL other belief systems are somewhat wrong. It's a very narrow and small minded simplistic position to take, one that helps propagate the very problems we see in the middle east. While it's difficult for the boy (or girl) in the bubble to see this, that is in fact the case.

In essence you could see it like this:

You go your way and I go mine.
OR
Live and let Live.

somewhat similar and yet oceans apart.


NOTE: Apparently while everyone was asleep The Last Alien Prophet, Ron Hubbard (pbuh) took a magical flying saucer ride up to Alpha Centaury and looked around. In Alien Heaven he sits on the right side of Xenu...

 

[Michael]

... Grrr...

 

[S.A.M.]

Actually, I've often felt it takes someone with some flaws to really understand humanity.

Self-hatred SAM, not a good look.

Except that we're talking about a fictional character here.

If you left your wife and child and begged for food, would you consider breathing exercises with closed eyes under a tree as appropriate and enlightened understanding of humanity? Would you be a self hating Jew person for seeing through it for the BS it was?

 

[swarm]

So lets see you practice what the chap you admire did.

I do. It works pretty good. I wouldn't recommend it for you though.

Tell me what it feels like.

Feels pretty great actually. Thanks for asking.

Who dumps a one year old kid

Yep he was as human as the next guy and definitely had his fuck ups. Some of them even came back to haunt him later in life. He was even honest about it and said don't revere me. What of it?

 

[S.A.M.]

He was even honest about it and said don't revere me. What of it?

He must have written it in indelible ink since nothing he said was written for 600 years. If he said any of it at all. If he even existed to begin with.

But don't let any of that stop you.

 

[swarm]

If he left his wife and new born kid to fend for themselves on the streets - yeah, he sounds like a real arse hole.

Well to be fair he didn't exactly leave them on the streets.

He left them with his dad, the "king" and his son was the heir apparent, so they weren't exactly hurting. Still that doesn't excuse ditching the family to have your mid life crisis, even if its very typical.

He was also a bit of a misogynist, though his friend helped him through some of it at the right moment and he apparently sucked as an administrator.

 

[swarm]

He must have written it in indelible ink since nothing he said was written for 600 years. If he said any of it at all. If he even existed to begin with.

Couldn't careless. He could be full on myth, actual person, conglomerate of myth and a number of early buddhist leaders, much like Mohammad, it really doesn't matter. Buddhism is a toolset. As long as the tools work, the stories about how the tools came to be are just camp fire material for passing the time.

Its one of the things religious people used to cults of personas have trouble understanding. Buddhism isn't about the Buddha. He's just a character in a book. Its about each person figuring out their own life and their own mind.