Which came first, the theist or the atheist?

But how can anyone accept any one set of details as true and all others as false. In zoroastiran religion, there are two gods of equal power and standing. Ahura Mazda, the god of creation and good, and Angra Mainyu, the god of entropy and evil. Who is to say that the conventional god-devil pairing is correct, with the devil being merely a creation, instead of the zoroastrian belief?

A billion other examples could be found.
 
I once heard religion described as a "Cover Crop." A Cover Crop is something you plant after your harvest to protect your soil until you plant you real crop again in the spring. religion is just a way to explain the unknown things about the world until science can give us the truth. its a place holder until we find the truth, thats why religions that relied on a god assigned to specific things (sun, moon, stars, ect) have fallen by the way side. the candle of science has lit up that dark corner of the universe. so if a religion is to survive, it must adapt. thats why religions of today are often described as being unknowable (god works in mysterious ways) or as merely a guiding force behind the physical processes we can explain.
 
cato,

I like that description. I think it fits. The tension then, between theists and atheists, comes from the atheists knowing and accepting this, and the theists insisting that what we don't understand is still GOD (that is, until the thing we don't understand is explained by science. Then GOD gets the leftovers once again...).
 
Though some shake their fists and insist that what most of us do understand is still god. There is still a good chunk which believe the universe is ~6000 years old and some even refuse medicine, claiming that all disease is the direct will of god and that it may only be cured by prayer.
 
M*W: Who knows? Electricity could be god.
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Yorda: Hehe... that's not really what I meant.
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M*W: Because a "separate, omnipotent, kingly entity" is merely an idea created by humans. It really doesn't exist.
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Yorda: It is an idea, but it is impossible to say if it is ONLY an idea. Ideas can be true also. Once, electricity was "merely" an idea. THIS kind of God (the God of the 3 major religions) has been confirmed by millions of people, and millions of people have also rejected it because they couldn't understand it or accept it because of the mistakes created by man. Once, all religions were one teaching, man has made several "religions" of it.
 
There is still a good chunk which believe the universe is ~6000 years old and some even refuse medicine, claiming that all disease is the direct will of god and that it may only be cured by prayer.
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I admire these people, they have the guts to truly believe in their god. anyone who truly thinks god plays a personal roll in their life should never take medicine.
 
cato:

I admire these people, they have the guts to truly believe in their god. anyone who truly thinks god plays a personal roll in their life should never take medicine.
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Darwinian selection in action.
 
Which came first, the theist or the atheist?

atheist of course,
even if there was god,
he would not believe worship other gods so he would have to be an atheist :p
 
scorpius said:
Which came first, the theist or the atheist?

atheist of course,
even if there was god,
he would not believe worship other gods so he would have to be an atheist :p
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Uh... I think God, If God existed, would probably believe God existed.
 
M*W: You're only partially right, Yorda. All the Abrahamic religons do come from the same 'god,' Amen Ra, as in Ab-RA-ham, Is-RA-el, etc. All religions known to humankind have come from early humans fearing and awing the sun, solar system, the elements, and women.
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Yorda: You know the 4 elements. They are also called the 4 faces of God (the Zodiak) You can see them, if you divide light into a spectrum of colours. Red would be fire, green would be air, blue would be water and black would be earth.

"Fire" is the first one of "God's faces", therefore it is also the most important one. The sun is a manifestation "fire" on a material state. Lion is a manifestation of fire on animal state and a human like Jesus is a manifestation of fire on human level, which is the last level. Humans are the only creatures able to express God (themselves) fully.

Anyway... religions talk about a thing which they call "God". Many people have misunderstood what God really is. If you have read Eastern religions, they often refer to the SELF when they talk about God. They say that God is the same as our SELF. This is not so easily detectable in Western religions. People are different in the West, so the Sons of God had to teach differently.

God can be likened to light (the Sun). You know that if you divide the light, you find infinite colors. In Hinduism, they talk about infinite "gods", which are a part of one supreme God (light). These infinite gods represent natural elements, human psyche and so on. Of course, there is also a God which represents the sun. This is the way the sons of God teached us, with colorful things rich in fantasy... and still, the truth is in them!

God is not the sun, although it is easily misunderstood. And since God is everything, it ALSO represents the sun. God is like light, like the sun, but it IS not the sun. The sun shines so that we wouldn't walk in darkness here on earth. God, the Christ, shines in our hearts so that we wouldn't walk in darkness, inside ourselves! God (our true self) is like the sun, it isn't partial. It shines with his love (fire) to all people, just like the sun shines upon all humans, whether they are good or bad. In the sun (and God), the good and the bad are the same thing, they don't exist! The sun is a good representation of God.

People misunderstood the teachings of the sons of God, that's why they started to worship the physical sun. It may also be that they purposely told that the sun is God (because light is like God) so that the very early humans could get an idea of what God is.
 
Clockwood said:
Though some shake their fists and insist that what most of us do understand is still god. There is still a good chunk which believe the universe is ~6000 years old and some even refuse medicine, claiming that all disease is the direct will of god and that it may only be cured by prayer.
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This generation of humans have only lived for about 7000 years (with this kind of consciousness). That is when OUR UNIVERSE begun. The real universe has no age, because it had no beginning. Time can only exist in the thoughts. If we get a disease, it is karma. If we use medicine, it is also a part of the learning process! Medicine can be bad, and it can be good. There is no absolute good or evil. Mind, place and time decides what is "good" (divine).
 
This generation of humans have only lived for about 7000 years (with this kind of consciousness).
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I don't think that is true, we became sedentary about 7K ago, but modern humans migrated out of Africa about 40K ago.
 
cato said:
I don't think that is true, we became sedentary about 7K ago, but modern humans migrated out of Africa about 40K ago.
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It was about 40000 years ago when the sons of God (an ancient giant race) took primitive human wives to themselves and had children with them. The mixture of their highly advanced race and the primitive humans created the human race which lives on Earth today. Later, the sons of God fled their homeland (Africa) because they knew that it would be destroyed and that the Flood would come. Before they left the Earth, they teached the humans, how they should live. Wherever the sons of God came, a great culture appeared (Azteks and Sumerians for example)

Because their homeland was destroyed the Flood came. At this time (5000 years ago), the sons of God didn't exist anymore because they didn't reproduce. But some of their descendants (Gilgamesh and Noah for example) still inherited their wisdom.

This is why some people have special skills. The sons of God, have been reincarnated on Earth as great philosophers and scientists (like Socrates, Hermes, Nostradamus, Newton, Tesla). But these people now only have a fraction of the knowledge which they possessed before they married with the primitive humans. I think Jesus was a "pure" reincarnation of the giant race. Jesus didn't inherit the size though, but there were still some who did, like Goliat. Goliat didn't inherit their wisdom, so David beat him because of his superior wisdom.

The great pyramid was built by the giant race, and many other monuments also. These buildings tell us that the giants existed. The giants didn't use slaves or their hands to build. They used special instruments and natural powers. They could manipulate the attraction of the earth, so that heavy blocks of stone could be easily lifted. They could make stones smooth as a polished mirror. By dematerializing the surface of the stone they could form it the way they wanted, as if it was butter.



See more images from Baalbek at: http://www.prophecy.worthyofpraise.org/baalbek/
 
Yeah atheists clearly would have come first.

Yorda: Oh I see.. so anything large has been made by giants? I guess anything small, (like my daughters doll house furniture), must have been made by leprechauns.
 
SnakeLord said:
Yorda: Oh I see.. so anything large has been made by giants? I guess anything small, (like my daughters doll house furniture), must have been made by leprechauns.
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Clearly, that's not what I meant to say. These things just happen to be built by them. They probably built big things because they were big. The giants didn't use their muscles while building the things they built.

There you go about your leprechauns again ;) But that is quite a bad example since doll house furniture are just toys, not real architecture.

No one in hell can explain how "some slaves carved the stones with primitive instruments and worked for thousands of years to build the things in Baalbek". This is not how they were built. Not much physical human strength was used. I would enjoy hearing some feeble "scientific" theories though... No one has been able to demostrate how the great pyramid would have been built. That was also built by the giants. I bet you will be amazed when you hear that the giants really existed and when you hear what spiritual powers they possessed. But because of ignorant humans, that will not happen in your lifetime...
 
Its true that the sons of God walked the earth, and there is ample evidence that angels may have had more direct contact with early man. However, not every instance of colossal architecture should be ascribed to giants. The pyramids were built by men who were enslaved by the Pharoah.

Many giants existed in the past but the skeleton evidence was destroyed in the passage of centuries. There are many medieval records of giant skeletons being kept. They were just very large humans, perhaps 20 feet high.

I pretty sure that stonehenge was a sanctuary for worshipping the sun and moon, built by men over a long period in the neolithic era or early bronze age,
(not built by giants as legend says).

Christ was not a reincarnation, for if you read about His miracles in scripture, you will find that he both claims and demonstrates that He is God.

For example, Christ is able to heal a man who had been blind from birth, (in other words, he actually gave the guy eyes!) a feat that only the creator could do, not any demon's trick.

Besides, consider this: Reincarnation doesnt work. Heres why: each soul must have a certain body by which it expresses itself and cannot enter a foreign house and work well in a house that is strange. The body is sacred, not just litter, as long as it houses the soul and the indwelling divinity.

Great photo of Baalbek by the way. Have you ever read the utterances of the oracle of Baalbek?

The pre-Greek foundation stone of Baalbek is impossibly huge. Modern machines cannot move it.
 
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Lawdog said:
The pyramids were built by men who were enslaved by the Pharoah.
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No slaves were used. If they had used slaves, the pyramid would have never been finished. Do you know how many stones the great pyramid consists of? The pyramids were not graves. Humans made graves of them later. Why would it have the form it has? The sons of God wanted to build the pyramid in that form. It symbolizes "God" and his 4 faces (Ezekiel) Lion, eagle, man (aquarius), ox. Note that God's faces are the same as in the wheel of Zodiak.

Christ was not a reincarnation, for if you read about His miracles in scripture, you will find that he both claims and demonstrates that He is God.
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I have read about him and I know that he is a son of God. Yes, you could say that he was "God", like any other "son of God" (the giants). He himself says that God is within us, so if we find ourselves, we will realize that we have always been what we are: God. There is only one truth. God. There is nothing else.

Besides, consider this: Reincarnation doesnt work. Heres why: each soul must have a certain body by which it expresses itself and cannot enter a foreign house and work well in a house that is strange. The body is sacred, not just litter, as long as it houses the soul and the indwelling divinity.
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All houses we enter are foreign first, but we get used to them. We enter a body which suits us. Bodies are like clothes, when they get old, we change to new ones.

Great photo of Baalbek by the way. Have you ever read the utterances of the oracle of Baalbek?
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I have never heard of any oracle.
 
The entire thread is engaged in a very interesting subject matter.


I would think that since most animals don’t believe in God, that this makes them atheists and shows, once more, the connection between the denial of God and primitive minds.

Only a sophisticated mind, that has accepted our Lord Jesus Christ as its saviour, can formulate the question in such a well thought out and clear manner.

To answer the question of what came first the theist or the atheist one must first clarify if the chicken came first or the egg.

Of course this, in turn, rests on the answer to the question: Why did the chicken cross the road?
Was there an egg there already or did it lay it afterwards?
What about the road itself?
Did it pre-exist or did it come to be just so that the chicken can cross it?

Medicine Woman is on to something here.

It reminds me of a saying:
‘At the deaf mans door, you can knock and knock and knock….’
Or
‘No matter how much you wash a black man, you are just wasting your soap.’
 
ANIMALS ARE NOT "ATHEISTS".

Animals are like children: unconscious. They are nothing. They believe nothing, so they believe (accept) everything.
 
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