When Is A Terrorist Not A Terrorist?

crazy151drinker said:
Now we are Brit bashing? Oh my, dont we have enough people to bitch about? The Islamic nuts for sure, and the French are easy pickings, but the Brits? What have they done to us? We havnt fought with them for almost 200 years! They are our best friends! Dont stab your buddy.....

Crazy - what you say is true, but Britain was forced by its government under influence of the American government to join the war on Iraq (Much against British public wishes) and the increase of twats like Tiassa who Brit bash are widening the gap between the US and the UK. America is going well down the pan as far as I'm concerned.
 
like Tiassa who Brit bash

Something about literacy goes here, but you didn't understand it any other time around, so I'll save us both the trouble.

I'm also aware that the average Brit is more intelligent than you, Vienna. That's why I tend to think people like you and R/D do more to bash the Brits than anyone who might look to the open books of history. Hell, you portray the British as jingoistic enough to give the Americans a run for their money.
 
phlogistician said:
Maybe you just skimmed the part where I said I was part Irish. So what do I have to feel guilty for?

Yes I was there professionally and made a hell of a lot of friends there, ordinary people. And, as a side, I am also of Irish stock, on my mothers side.

I suggest that some people read Jack Higgin's books on Sean Dillon. He is quite possibly fiction but I suspect, based on fact. I will give nothing away about the plots but excellent readings by a man himself from Belfast.

The Americans vision of Northern Ireland has been foggy for decades, prefering to belive the poor downtrodden masses under the cruel English thumb. As quite rightly mentioned, the occupants of Northern Ireland are all British by birth. I do not bring religion into it being an athiest, so have no preference or axe to grind on that score.

The referendum's in Northern Ireland, back in '72, at the height of the "troubles" and again in the 90's both gave a massive thumbs up to remain as part of the United Kindom, voting in favour over 90%; cannot remember exact figures. As a direct consequence of this Dublin dropped all claims to Northern Ireland from its constitution and the Republican movements came to the peace table.

What mistakes that were made in the past, ancient history and modern, should, in the light of peace, be put on the back burner so to speak. We should all live to the future now and not dwell on the past, a crime committed by many many people in Ireland, both north and south.

Those of us who have been there, lived through the horrors of bombs and bullets, mostly from American dollars, should be grateful that there is a chance for everlasting peace in Ulster, and grasp it with both hands.

Let us not forget that organisations like the IRA and PIRA were virtually extinct before August '69, when the Loyalists started it all off by driving Catholic families from homes, aided and assisted by the notorious B Specials, a police organisation. The Army was sent over by the London Government, to assist the Royal Ulster Constabulary in restoring order, protecting Catholic homes. The IRA didn't like the idea of their people being protected by these soldiers, so a few loonies got some guns and started taking shots at the Police/Soldiers - the rest, as they say, is history.

Nobody is blameless, but no side can afford not to take to chance of peace in the Province. Everyone makes mistakes, its how you learn from them thats the important thing. People of America were blinded for too long by anti british propaganda and rhetoric from politicians eager to hang onto power with the american-irish vote; believe me, thats the only reason they did it.

Having such an irish "royal family" in the Kennedy's didn't help either. My point to you all, is that you should never believe everything you read in the press, you are being told what people WANT you to know, not necessarily what is the truth. The government here in London did it as well, nobody, as I said, is blameless. But some factions had the ears of the biased american press, some did not.
 
Tiassa, let's get this back to the core issue, and ignore your attempts to distract anyone from the real issue using ad-homs etc, are you going to answer my question?

If you believe the Brits should be expelled from Ireland, what are you going to do with them, their homes, and their livelyhoods? Offer then new lives in the USA? Or has Lady Liberty turned her back on the Irish now? What's your solution to the problem?
 
StarOfEight said:
Vienna - and the British aren't looking out for their own interests?

And how does that work?

By invading Iraq has made Britain a prime target for terrorism. The WMD excuse was an obvious and blatant lie. The UN did not approve the war on Iraq. The people of Iraq didn't ask for help They didn't ask us to get rid of Saddam, and they don't want us there now.

America and Blair dragged the British into this war.
 
What exactly is this thread about?
The Irish that live in Northern Ireland are Protestants, they have the British Army there to protect them. Britain doesent occupy the place for fun (although admittedly, we have in the past). The Catholics have their own republic, i dont see what the problem is really.
And Britain needs oil as much as the US, thats why Blair pushed us into the war. It was wrong, we could of made some deals for oil without invading Iraq, but i dont think Blair did it just because the US told him to. Look at the trade wars where the UK has sided with Europe for evidence that Blair doesent always side with the US.
I hate Blair as much as the next man, but shit with some truth behind it sticks better than conspiracy theories.
 
Working Class Hero said:
What exactly is this thread about?
The Irish that live in Northern Ireland are Protestants, they have the British Army there to protect them. Britain doesent occupy the place for fun (although admittedly, we have in the past). The Catholics have their own republic, i dont see what the problem is really.
And Britain needs oil as much as the US, thats why Blair pushed us into the war. It was wrong, we could of made some deals for oil without invading Iraq, but i dont think Blair did it just because the US told him to. Look at the trade wars where the UK has sided with Europe for evidence that Blair doesent always side with the US.
I hate Blair as much as the next man, but shit with some truth behind it sticks better than conspiracy theories.

Your knowledge of the Northern Ireland issue is dim - please read Red Devils posts - that man served in the forces there and knows the facts, he has my greatest respect.

As for Blair - he is Americas puppet just as every Prime minister before him. It has got to stop, we have more than repaid all the favours to America. And don't forget that America financed the terrorists in Ireland.

Bush has turned America into a very ugly and world hated superpower - much like the playground bully. We all know what happens to bullies - they eventually fall with a great thud - and I don't want Britain to be tarnished with the same brush as America thank you very much.
 
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If you believe the Brits should be expelled from Ireland, what are you going to do with them, their homes, and their livelyhoods? Offer then new lives in the USA?

Well ... let's see ... when the Americans expelled the Brits, the Crown went and the people stayed.

Did that really not occur to you, or are you just being obstinate in order to give yourself a reason to have a problem?
 
What exactly is this thread about?

Initially, it had to do with a legal decision giving some form of legitimacy to a terrorist or terrorist suspect.

I do actually see, as I review the topic, an early error of mine that unfortunately nobody has specified; I attributed the judge's position to a relative of a victim. I'll have to edit that when the storm calms.

But aside from that, my acknowledged "barely relevant" note has been used as a springboard for some machismo-laden venting of frustrations. And that seems to be largely where we're swirling around. Apparently some British folks are upset because a straw finally broke a camel's back; never mind that the breaking works to their favor.

These folks who are so sensitive about what people do and don't know about the British, and what they can and can't know according to their nationality, are busy showing that it's good enough for the British to go on about other folks, but nobody ought to have an opinion of the British that is anything short of sterling.

At least, that's what I'm getting from it. The original topic, though, seems to have to do with a court decision ruling the RIRA a legal organization.
 
WHEN IS A TERRORIST NOT A TERRORIST

I'd have to say when their not trying to meet a political / idealogical goal.
 
DONT INSULT THE BRITISH YOU BASTARD
Why not?
I'm British and I insult my fellow nationals without mercy. ;)

Hey Tiassa!
Just to drop a cat on your pigeons.
Perhaps (just perhaps) we occupied Ireland in order to protect it's population from the myriad abuses of the catholic church. ;)

In the late 20th century and especially the turn of the 21st, the Roman Catholic Church was hit by a series of allegations, many substantiated, concerning sexual abuse of children under the legal age of consent1 by priests, nuns and people employed by the Church. Well-publicized charges that the Church in some instances deliberately covered up such crimes have fueled criticism of the institution and its leadership. While not every allegation stood up to scrutiny, an extremely large percentage did, resulting in apologies and restitution by the Church and the criminal prosecution of some of those who engaged in the acts.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Roman_Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_scandal#The_threefold_allegations

Oh and lets not forget the Magdalen Asylums.
In many countries supposedly fallen women were abused in Magdalene Institutions. The worst known cases were run by the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland where conditions amounted to slavery.
The Irish government closed the last one in '96 you know.
There's even a film out about it now.

Would you hand a chunk of your own population over to these people?
No and neither did the Brits.

Seriously though, the C of E population in the north were well aware of what 'integration' with the south would mean and they didn't want it.

Dee Cee
 
Seriously though, the C of E population in the north were well aware of what 'integration' with the south would mean and they didn't want it.

There's never been any doubt about that. But what about the folks of plantation? Did they ever think they would lose the rest of the country when they got on the boat?
 
There arent really any Brits living in Northern Ireland, theyre all Irish Protestants. You could expel them, but i doubt theyd get on that much better in the UK. And we arent talking a few hundred, i think there are a fair few of them!
 
tiassa said:
I do actually see, as I review the topic, an early error of mine that unfortunately nobody has specified; I attributed the judge's position to a relative of a victim. I'll have to edit that when the storm calms.
Oh, is it an error.? Most of the time i don't have a clue on what the hell is your point. No wonder none noticed that there is an inadvertant error.
 
tiassa said:
Well ... let's see ... when the Americans expelled the Brits, the Crown went and the people stayed.

Did that really not occur to you, or are you just being obstinate in order to give yourself a reason to have a problem?

Except that's not what you said. You didn't say you believed the government of Northern Ireland should change (which it easily could if there was popular support, it being part of a democracy).

You said you agreed with expelling the British. The _people_ are British, and they want to be governed by a British Government! That is why loyalists act against the IRA for christ's sake (not that I agree with those acts).

Do you not grasp this! British people, in a part of Britain, want to stay British. Just because some Irish folks have a claim on the land dating back 1000 years, doesn't mean it is valid, or that the right thing to do is hand over sovereignty!

So, again you display that you haven't actually got a clue what's going on, but are prepared to run off at the mouth despite this.
 
Vienna said:
As for Blair - he is Americas puppet just as every Prime minister before him. It has got to stop, we have more than repaid all the favours to America. And don't forget that America financed the terrorists in Ireland.QUOTE]

What about Churchill?
 
Most of the time i don't have a clue on what the hell is your point. No wonder none noticed that there is an inadvertant error.

Fair 'nuff. But since people are taking the time to be exceptionally overcritical, it's worth mentioning. The way I see it, there's an outside possibility that simple mistake is what set R/D off. However, as the focus has been elsewhere, I can only work with that.
 
Phlogistician said:
You said you agreed with expelling the British. The _people_ are British, and they want to be governed by a British Government! That is why loyalists act against the IRA for christ's sake (not that I agree with those acts).

Do you not grasp this! . . . .

Well if every discussion we ever have is set according to your exclusive and provocatively-designed lexicon, we'll never get anywhere.

Say what you want, and then look at history.

Do you not grasp that if Americans expelled the British according to your standard, there would be no America?

And ... Phlog: You said you agreed with expelling the British.

You wrote that. I would like you to cite where I said I agreed with expelling the British.
 
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