What was the message of Jesus?

[SnakeLord]

You would have to eliminate all the past memories causing you unhappiness (unconsciously), to do this you would have to destroy all insecurities (which stem from past memories), so you can just use an exercise like reframing, which is reframing a memory into the way you desire then telling your unconscious to handle it in that way from now on. The experience would in a way be gone, gone forever, though it only existed as a memory.

Then once you finally achieve the highest perfection you will finally enjoy every instant, you would not be able to become fearful, angry, sorrowful, etc...because the impulses causing those would be gone.

Don't get me wrong, I somewhat admire Vulcans.. Tuvok, Spock, what a great gang they were - and to a degree the principle of which Vulcans operate is a noble one. However, without having emotions, without recognising and remembering past experience a person will have no 'guiding light' as it were. Without fear people would cross the road without looking, without remembering the pain of touching an open fire one will most likely touch it again. Without emotion and experience, life would be a lot shorter.

I would also, from a professional standpoint, have to disagree with any notion concerning the ability to "tell your unconscious". You are a product of your society, a product of your genes and most importantly a product of your experiences. They shape the exact person you are and every single decision you make in life. You can't just turn them off like fuses in a fuse box no more than you can choose to no longer like the sound of a specific style of music.

There are many ways of 'removing demons'. Some pay me to do a service, some drink large quantities of alcohol, some turn religious. They all have the exact same issues in life and if they had the ability to just switch them on and off so easily not only would I be out of a job but there wouldn't be any religious people left. Your brain will deal with things in whatever way it sees fit. You have no say in the matter, but will take the path that fits best with the sum of your life experiences.

 

[mustafhakofi]

This doesn't really contradict anything I'm saying....plus what do you mean by brainwash? Have you been brainwashed to learn english, science, etc...?

ah but it does contradict you cant be condictioned and unconditioned at the same time, there is a big difference.
being taught english and science, which are evidence based is not brainwashing/indoctrination, but not so religion, if you had asked if I had been brainwashed in to believing in santa or the tooth fairy, then I would have said of course, yes.

No it wouldn't I know lots of people are raised atheists, they are conditioned to be atheists,

absolute rubbish.

religious doctrination has nothing to do with being unconditioned.

true your being condictioned to beleive.

But if you want to be technical then it would mean free from all conditioning,

WTF are you talking about, are you speaking english. How so.

even atheism (which is the disbelief in God's existence).

yes I know whats your point.

It doesn't matter if its a doctrination or not, conditioning is conditioning,

and indoctrination is indoctrination is conditioning.

atheism is the disbelief in God(s) or Goddesses.

yes already stated I know.

Again, atheism and theism have little to do with being unconditioned.....

wrong; atheism is unconditioned, theism is conditioned.

 

[VitalOne]

ah but it does contradict you cant be condictioned and unconditioned at the same time, there is a big difference.
being taught english and science, which are evidence based is not brainwashing/indoctrination, but not so religion, if you had asked if I had been brainwashed in to believing in santa or the tooth fairy, then I would have said of course, yes. absolute rubbish. true your being condictioned to beleive. WTF are you talking about, are you speaking english. How so.yes I know whats your point. and indoctrination is indoctrination is conditioning. yes already stated I know. wrong; atheism is unconditioned, theism is conditioned.

Man, just when you think someone can't rise to an even higher level of stupidity....

Being brainwashed to believe in Santa or the tooth fairy? You've been brainwashed to believe that they don't exist...you been brainwashed to believe whatever science says to be the absolute truth...if science said shit was sugar you would start eating it...you've been conditioned to believe that God doesn't exist just like how a theist has been conditioned to believe that God does exist.....for instance in the 1500s a fool like you would be believing that the Sun revolves around the Earth just because the current science of the time says so....or in the 1950s an electron was the smallest particle...you see what I mean...what do you mean by "brainwashed"? You can say that everyone has been brainwashed...

How is atheism the freedom of all insecurities (or unconditioned)...you don't make any sense at all...

 

[VitalOne]

Don't get me wrong, I somewhat admire Vulcans.. Tuvok, Spock, what a great gang they were - and to a degree the principle of which Vulcans operate is a noble one. However, without having emotions, without recognising and remembering past experience a person will have no 'guiding light' as it were. Without fear people would cross the road without looking, without remembering the pain of touching an open fire one will most likely touch it again. Without emotion and experience, life would be a lot shorter.

I would also, from a professional standpoint, have to disagree with any notion concerning the ability to "tell your unconscious". You are a product of your society, a product of your genes and most importantly a product of your experiences. They shape the exact person you are and every single decision you make in life. You can't just turn them off like fuses in a fuse box no more than you can choose to no longer like the sound of a specific style of music.

There are many ways of 'removing demons'. Some pay me to do a service, some drink large quantities of alcohol, some turn religious. They all have the exact same issues in life and if they had the ability to just switch them on and off so easily not only would I be out of a job but there wouldn't be any religious people left. Your brain will deal with things in whatever way it sees fit. You have no say in the matter, but will take the path that fits best with the sum of your life experiences.

What do you mean from a professional standpoint, that base reframing process is a psychological technique developed to trace back earlier memories based upon bodily feelings (like back tension, nervousness, anxiety, etc..) and replace them with new desirable imaginary memories you create, its almost like changing the past itself

 

[mustafhakofi]

(personal attack removed, argue the point not the person)

Being brainwashed to believe in Santa or the tooth fairy? You've been brainwashed to believe that they don't exist

ah so they exist.

you been brainwashed to believe whatever science says to be the absolute truth if science said shit was sugar you would start eating it

of course if it tasted good. they ate shit in 18th century france it was a delicacy.

you've been conditioned to believe that God doesn't exist

so I conditioned/indoctrinated/brainwashed, myself, ah I get it now.

a theist has been conditioned to believe that God does exist.

yes that obvious.

for instance in the 1500s a fool(personal attack removed, argue the point not the person)would be believing that the Sun revolves around the Earth just because the current science of the time says so

yes but it would be open to question thats the beauty of science, the fact that it's questioned, if it wasn't we'd still think the sun evolves around the Earth

or in the 1950s an electron was the smallest particle.

same answer. see above. science questions.

you see what I mean.

no

what do you mean by "brainwashed"? You can say that everyone has been brainwashed

any child born into a religion is brainwashed to follow that religion (against their will I might add) the only time an adult turns to religion is either due to them being at a low in there life, and then the preachers descend on them or they have had a severe trauma.

How is atheism the freedom of all insecurities (or unconditioned)...you don't make any sense at all...

because we are born atheist and thus continuing that way or reverting back is unconditioned or unconditioning.

 

[SnakeLord]

that base reframing process is a psychological technique developed to trace back earlier memories based upon bodily feelings (like back tension, nervousness, anxiety, etc..) and replace them with new desirable imaginary memories you create, its almost like changing the past itself

I'm unsure exactly what you're referring to unless you mean cognitive restructuring which doesn't really do what you state it does. Feel free to provide me with some links but 'reframing' is more to do with looking at an instance in a more positive manner as opposed to a destructive one. Perhaps you could even benefit from it - instead of labelling musthafakofi as a 'fool' and claiming his post as the highest level of stupidity, perhaps you could reframe yourself to say "My good friend musthafakofi, I happen to disagree with you on several key issues but otherwise find your post quite informative".

Here's where you'll probably tell me that he started it and, in the words of Jan - if he can do it so can I, but that's quite negative. Reframing can help to deal with that. What it wont do is change the past or your memories of them. Those experiences remain and proceed to shape you in a certain manner. As a result of that you would naturally be more inclined to call someone a fool than to say what I quoted.