What makes your (dis)belief better?

i lost my faith very long ago. and i never claimed that i was right, all i claim is that i believe.
 
The best thing about my un-belief is the freedom it allows me to construct my own ideas about reality and my place in it.
In doing this i learn more about myself and what motivates me than i think i could following someone elses version of reality.
I just dont see any (or at least very little) room for growth living in accordance with someone elses 'sacred doctrine of reality'. If i live by someone elses ideas then im really just handing over my own personal responsibility to an outside agency while having faith that their way will somehow help me arrive at my chosen destination.
I think if i followed a system of belief id be somewhat like a dog whod been trained not to shit indoors. Id be conditioned not to do it, but i wouldnt have any real understanding of why it would be wrong or a bad thing to do. :D
 
Sounds reasonable. Anyone else? More people who rarely post posted on this than the top-posters did lol
 
Provita said:
What makes your (dis)belief [enter religion here or athiesm] better than all other beliefs? What made you come to believe that you belief ... or disbelief.. was supreme to all other beliefs? *The* truth?
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My belief is in nature as law. It is superior to others because it is natural, how things are meant to be. If materialism and leisure were natural, other animals would experience them. The same is true of religion. Have you ever seen a devoutly religious wolf? I believe that people should not own the land and that governments should not own the people; true freedom.

Many theists claim their religions to be true, but how do they know? What makes them right? What makes you right? Keep in mind what your religion offers and what other religions offer. (i.e. Holy texts arent proof, for other religions have it.) I was just wondering... what makes you believe what you believe?
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They have no proof that their religion is real, they are brainwashed at a young age or are somehow convinced of their beliefs by some tramatizing event in their live. Theists are not free, they serve their dieties. Those who have no dieties serve someone else's moral code. I believe what I believe because it is nature for me to believe that way, I have eliminated society's bullshit from my mind and accepted what is real.

Many athiests claim their belief that there is no god(s) ... or disbelief in any such thing... to be true. But what made you come to this conclusion? Dont just say logic. Explain a bit. Compare and contrast if you can. What makes you not believe?
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I don't believe in religious dieties because the lion has no dieties, and the bear has no dieties. Neither does the squirrel, or the fox, or the ant, or any other beings, from what we can see from observation. Theists believe that god(s) control my world, I believe that I control my world, which would you say has more direct effect on my world, the evident answer is the latter.

For both of you... were u raised that way? Do u follow the belief... or disbelief... you were raised in? Or were u a rebel? Were you exposed to other religions and given a choice? Or were u indoctrinated? Were u told they were all wrong and urs was right? Or that none were right?
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I was raised in a presbitarian church, and I went to a christian school for a few years.I started to doubt God when I was around 10 years old. I looked into other religions seeking "truth." I had to buy the books myself, and keep them at my mom's house, because my dad is a scitzo(diagnosed) religious moron. I decided that it is only logical to believe that nature is true.

What made you come to believe what you believe. Or disbelieve.
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Unity, freedom. There is a natural balance of predator-prey in the wild, this makes me believe that humans at some point were part of this balance. Nature is perfect, all species co-exist and survive, and the next generation is always more equiped to survive than the last. In the end, there is evolution. Science has made the environment adapt to us, and we are no longer adapting to the environment. This halts evolution. We have destroyed the natural balance of things, we have destroyed nature's perfection. That is why I've believe as I do.
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Provita said:
What makes your (dis)belief [enter religion here or athiesm] better than all other beliefs? What made you come to believe that you belief ... or disbelief.. was supreme to all other beliefs? *The* truth?

Many theists claim their religions to be true, but how do they know? What makes them right? What makes you right? Keep in mind what your religion offers and what other religions offer. (i.e. Holy texts arent proof, for other religions have it.) I was just wondering... what makes you believe what you believe?

Many athiests claim their belief that there is no god(s) ... or disbelief in any such thing... to be true. But what made you come to this conclusion? Dont just say logic. Explain a bit. Compare and contrast if you can. What makes you not believe?

For both of you... were u raised that way? Do u follow the belief... or disbelief... you were raised in? Or were u a rebel? Were you exposed to other religions and given a choice? Or were u indoctrinated? Were u told they were all wrong and urs was right? Or that none were right?

What made you come to believe what you believe. Or disbelieve.

Just wondering really, kind of like the topic "who believes and who doesnt" but a little more on... why?

Just wondering :D

I think it would be a good way to find out why people are what they are.
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Your putting beliefs on the same level with facts. They are not the same, equal or interchangeable. Beliefs are personal choices but have no obvious basis in reality or proof or evidence. Also fundamental religion tries to covertly or overtly insist that their "beliefs" are somehow fact if given the chance. Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is open for evidence.

Unity, freedom. There is a natural balance of predator-prey in the wild, this makes me believe that humans at some point were part of this balance. Nature is perfect, all species co-exist and survive, and the next generation is always more equiped to survive than the last. In the end, there is evolution. Science has made the environment adapt to us, and we are no longer adapting to the environment. This halts evolution. We have destroyed the natural balance of things, we have destroyed nature's perfection. That is why I've believe as I do.
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Nature is not perfect. Nature is always making mistakes, changing and the key is adaptation to what is but what is could hardly be described as perfection. There is severe imbalances in nature caused by even natural disasters. The human race could possibly be wiped out but the earth does not require us. It does not care about happiness or even health but survival. Imagine this place as being labeled hell with resources to fight over. Death, unfairness, evil can exist and nature does not feel or care. Only living things can feel and we're alone to make the best of it, with it and against it for our best interest. This is what you refer to as balance and its not a foregone conclusion. If there were no resistance then there would not be this balance you refer to as perfection. If nature was perfect there would have never been a hitler or a jeffrey dahmer.
 
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Again, for the second time in this topic, I know athiesm is not religion. I never said it was one.
 
I believe that IF there is a higher consciousness behind the universe and its laws, then all present forms of worship are wrong. Almost all religions were developed when people did not have even the most basic understanding of the universe.

And I also took this idea from nature. In none of the scriptures left behind by any religion does God make mention of giving the same ethical rules or rules of worship to animals, although some do address animal’s creation (even if swiftly). Nowhere are there stories of this divine knowledge of right and wrong, taking Sundays off, or facing East to pray, being passed to animals as well for humans are favored solely for eternal life (whether in paradise or hell) above all other creatures. Was then this knowledge of morality instilled directly into animals by His will, while humans (supposedly the most intelligent animal on Earth) needed guidelines and rules to set a path? Doubtful.
 
Provita said:
Again, for the second time in this topic, I know athiesm is not religion. I never said it was one.
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Come off it. You still equated disbelief the same as belief in regard to religion.
 
Disbelief is freedom from belief. Belief is usually a cultural con-game. In total freedom we may finally realize our individuality. I think it could be fun and satisfying to believe in God, and I don't think it's inherently inferior, but it is wrapped with in so much cultural baggage that it makes it hard to be free. My parents don't practice religion, but they left such things up to us.
 
^ its not inferior privately but it is when they leave all the critical thinking and accountability as the responsiblity of others.
 
Nature is not perfect. Nature is always making mistakes, changing and the key is adaptation to what is but what is could hardly be described as perfection. There is severe imbalances in nature caused by even natural disasters. The human race could possibly be wiped out but the earth does not require us. It does not care about happiness or even health but survival. Imagine this place as being labeled hell with resources to fight over. Death, unfairness, evil can exist and nature does not feel or care. Only living things can feel and we're alone to make the best of it, with it and against it for our best interest. This is what you refer to as balance and its not a foregone conclusion. If there were no resistance then there would not be this balance you refer to as perfection. If nature was perfect there would have never been a hitler or a jeffrey dahmer.
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I am well aware that the only thing relevent in nature is the survival of the species. That, in my eyes, IS perfection. I am happy with survival and with my genes going to the next generation, and if you are not, it is because of greed. You want more to be there, and it can not. When natural disasters occur, they are corrected by nature. The predators without enough food die off, and nature's balance is restored. That resistance is the need for survival, which is natural. Thus, perfection. Hitler was a result of society, and not nature. That is exactly why I perfer nature over society. If you disagree that Hitler was born the way he was, and it was not society's fault, read Mein Kampf to get his point of veiw on the subject. Hitler blamed all of his failures on society. Even if it was natural, Hitler couldn't have ever orginized all those people in nature.

Also: Adaptation is a creation of nature.
 
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i am jewish, and i dont hold my beliefs above anyone else's.
i never preach to convert, never espouse the virtues of my belief system, and never care what someone else believes as long as it makes them happy and helps them to live the life they want to live.

i wont even raise my children jewish. it is wrong to impose religion on anyone, especially someone that doesnt know better.
values are a different story.
 
Yet Hitler himself, or at least the Nazi philosophy,was a twisted combination of survival-of-the-fittest perfectionism and paganism.
 
The Devil Inside said:
i am jewish, and i dont hold my beliefs above anyone else's.
i never preach to convert, never espouse the virtues of my belief system, and never care what someone else believes as long as it makes them happy and helps them to live the life they want to live.

i wont even raise my children jewish. it is wrong to impose religion on anyone, especially someone that doesnt know better.
values are a different story.
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You've got problems, friend....
 
Lawdog said:
Yet Hitler himself, or at least the Nazi philosophy,was a twisted combination of survival-of-the-fittest perfectionism and paganism.
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So? Nazism is not unlike religion. Paganism is, of course, an ancient religion.
 
What does Nazism have to do with being a pagan? Are you familiar with the IRA? Or the KKK? Both are christian orginizations, I don't see how Nazism was influenced by paganism. Can you please explain?
 
correct, Nazism was a religion (with a political thrust).
Something that few historians realize.
Its origin was in the occult and in witchcraft.
the symbols of the Nazis were drawn from Teutonic legend,
New Age theosophical traditions from The Secret Doctrine
of the mystic madam Helena Petrovna Blavatski, Yorg Lance,
the Nordic Runes, and Odin warrior religion.
It was a cult of the masculine rooted in evil.
 
am well aware that the only thing relevent in nature is the survival of the species. That, in my eyes, IS perfection. I am happy with survival and with my genes going to the next generation, and if you are not, it is because of greed. You want more to be there, and it can not.
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You of course are entitled to your opinion but survival of the species is not technically perfection. If you are happy with it, then you should tell the millions of starving, diseased people and children in wartorn countries that they should be happy to have offspring to continue the legacy. I could turn around and say that it is also your insensitivity and complacency in principle that is part of these problems as well. But wanting more or things to be different if they are wrong or could be improved does not automatically equal to greed moron. Its called conceptual thinking which apparently you lack. And you cannot separate an example such as hitler from nature because it is nature that is responsible from either nonexistant universal laws which could prevent it or some other loophole and the myriad masses of pain, suffering, and dead soldiers along the way. If you think thats perfection then hitler is closer to your thinking than you realize because evidently the ends justify the means to you.
 
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