What Makes A Good Person?
- Thread starter mis-t-highs
- Start date
c20H25N3o said:
Excuse me? Since when did I believe "science has no answers, so there must be God?" Please do put words into my mouth, and then falsely judge me accordingly. Furthermore, I would appreciate it if you didn't make such bold judgements about me publicly either. You presume much if you believe to know a person's spiritual state based upon words posted on a computer screen. You're right, there is a huge difference between believing with the heart and believing with the mind. However, just because one believes with the mind doesn't mean that he does not also believe with the heart. That is a very large presumption on your part. Furthermore, I ask, if there is none to defend belief in God through the method of logic, then how are those who know the world through logic to come to understand rightly what is believed by the religious? If, and I know you believe this, God created humans with intellect and free will, then it would be a smack in the face to God to (so to speak) to abandon one's own intellect for the sake of blind faith. Faith yes, but understanding also. There is most definitely more than one way to come to belief in the supreme entity, and by way of logical deduction is one of them. Logic is a function of the brain, just as intuition is a function of the brain. Each function is controlled by either hemisphere. Those who operate mentally with the intuitive hemisphere more are going to be the kind of people who come to know God intuitively, as you do, and will simply argue that they 'just know' it to be true, without any logical analysis of their belief. And this is fine, since it is actually a function of the brain, and an accepted source of knowledge as such. Those who operate with the logical hemisphere more are the kind of people who will come to belief in God by way of logic. Such people will be able to offer logical analysis of the reasons for their beliefs. And this is also fine, since it is a function of the brain, and an accepted source of knowledge as such.
Don't sit there and tell me that because I am the type of person who has, both genetically been built, and developed in such a way that I use the logical hemisphere of my brain to come to the conclusion of a God that I am unable to love Him, and that it is a stumbling block for me. Each and every person will believe in their own unique way, as they are capable. Since the existence of God isn't proven, and every major theologian and philosopher throughout history would agree with me on this point, belief... FAITH is all that one can have concerning this point (at least until the day that the existence of God is proven, if it can be). So, whether I have faith by means of logic, or by means of intuition, it is still faith, and I have the capacity of love God every bit as much as you do. Don't sit there on your pedestal making such ludicrous and ill-formed judgements, not to mention ill-educated, about people you have never even met.
beyondtimeandspace said:
Ok Ok, I have made assumptions and put words in your mouth. Forgive me. Honestly forgive me.
I will say this though ( and please bear in mind that I am only trying to 'help' ), Jesus is the answer and Jesus is desperately illogical to most e.g. Whoever wants to be the greatest must be the least!
I am sorry if I have preached to you the converted, in such a way that you believe I have questioned your own faith on the matter. I did not mean to make you angry with me. I just know that there are many on here who despise the whole Least is Greatest thing and I am compelled to speak the truth on this matter. Logic will bear out the 'least is greatest' thing but first people have to throw away the logic of this life in order to understand what I mean.
Again, i did not mean to patronise you so sorry for that.
peace
c20
mis-t-highs said:
Religion has nothing to do anything!
1-knowing what is Right.
2-knowing what is Wrong.
2-knowing where/by whom you got that Right and wrong from.
Not what man's laws are or the intricacies of man's judicial system and following them.
I like this. But I think you are missing a little thing. An infinite chain of events have to "start", right? However, imagine a place that has no time at all. How could we have a problem with infinity in a place that has no time? Space and time were created, somehow. But before that was created, that wasn't any time at all (at least not the way we think of). So... "when" did the universe start!?!?!?Balder1 said:
Geeeeezzz.... NOW I'm lost....
The problem with this, is that without a timeframe, there shouldn't be any distinction between present, past and future. No time works in a similar way than infinite time. When would the universe start? Let's say it starts today. So... there was an infinite amount of time before us. How long it took for the universe start? An infinite amount of time. But that makes no sense! Because it started at some point! If there was an infinite amount of time before us, we would never have come to existance. The same way works if there was no time at all. The universe wouldn't have started at any given point, because wherever it start, it would take an infinite amount of "time" to start it.
Hence the paradox of existance.
Yeh, yeh ,yeh.....! hold on a second. Of course it is possible! I said it is hard not impossible. It is hard because it requires a very broad understanding of both the universe and the human mind. And, you cannot be biased either way. Of course we cannot understand God by ourselves. But who said we are alone? Isn't God in us? All that you need to do is to find Him in you. If you do that, why wouldn't you be able to understand Him? As it is written:c20H25N3o said:
1 Corinthians 13:8-13
"8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. "
If you find God's love within you, what else do you need to know Him?
Well... there's a balance to be achieved. Humility doesn't imply humiliation. God doesn't want us to submiss ourselves. I think He would even be glad if people would question things more, because the questioning can deepen your understanding of Him. I think it should just be blant honesty, that's all. You don't need to submiss yourself. Just stand up and look up, because God is up there - not on your feet. I'm not saying Christians should be proud, I'm just saying Christians should be less self-humiliating. We are children of God, after all.
Well, thank you...
But even if what you say it's true, you should worship me or something...
"Worship" God within me, instead.
Well... that's why I chose that name. I hope I am blessed...
W
what768
Guest
TruthSeeker said:
The universe is an endless loop without beginning or end. It explodes, and it falls back into a kind of black hole, then it explodes again, forever. There was no beginning and there is no end, like in a circle. Why would Existence need to have a beginning, or why would it have to be created?
It is hard to understand for humans because they feel separated with their one sided body. Humans always want to think "this" rather than "that". They think there is a first or last, or up or down, but they are mere definitions to explain the ultimate, that nothing is separated. In space there is no up and down, and it is like this with every so called negative and positive thing.
what768:
your statement leaves no room for a god.
your statement leaves no room for a god.
so you see no god.misty said:
W
what768
Guest
the preacher
I don't believe in a thinking "god".
I don't believe in a thinking "god".
what about an omniscient one,,a thinking god cannot be omniscient
# Being positive or desirable in nature; not bad or poor
#
1. Having the qualities that are desirable or distinguishing in a particular thing
2. Serving the desired purpose or end; suitable
#
1. Not spoiled or ruined
2. In excellent condition; sound.
#
1. Superior to the average; satisfactory
#
1. Of high quality
# Worthy of respect; honorable
# Attractive; handsome
# Beneficial to health; salutary
# Competent; skilled
# Complete; thorough
#
1. Reliable; sure
2. Valid or true
3. Genuine; real
#
1. In effect; operative
2. Able to continue in a specified activity
#
1. Able to pay or contribute
2. Able to elicit a specified reaction
#
1. Ample; substantial
2. Bountiful
#
1. Pleasant; enjoyable
2. Propitious; favorable
#
1. Of moral excellence; upright
2. Benevolent; kind
3. Loyal; staunch
#
1. Well-behaved; obedient
2. Socially correct; proper
________________-
all that just from the dictionary... but it's all a preconcept, fed to us by our parents and society....There is no good.
#
1. Having the qualities that are desirable or distinguishing in a particular thing
2. Serving the desired purpose or end; suitable
#
1. Not spoiled or ruined
2. In excellent condition; sound.
#
1. Superior to the average; satisfactory
#
1. Of high quality
# Worthy of respect; honorable
# Attractive; handsome
# Beneficial to health; salutary
# Competent; skilled
# Complete; thorough
#
1. Reliable; sure
2. Valid or true
3. Genuine; real
#
1. In effect; operative
2. Able to continue in a specified activity
#
1. Able to pay or contribute
2. Able to elicit a specified reaction
#
1. Ample; substantial
2. Bountiful
#
1. Pleasant; enjoyable
2. Propitious; favorable
#
1. Of moral excellence; upright
2. Benevolent; kind
3. Loyal; staunch
#
1. Well-behaved; obedient
2. Socially correct; proper
________________-
all that just from the dictionary... but it's all a preconcept, fed to us by our parents and society....There is no good.
W
what768
Guest
Yeah, I believe in a kind of omniscient god...
If it is an endless loop, than there is a beginning. You cannot describe something timeless using time. Can't you see that? Have you read my post or just the first sentence?what768 said:
W
what768
Guest
TruthSeeker said:
No, there is no beginning. I'm not using time. When the universe "explodes" it's the same thing as when it "implodes", and it has always "been" there "exploding" and "imploding", it has always "Existed"! It's hard to understand one-ness and infinity with a separated and finite mind, isn't it?
Jesus said:
John 14
1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2In My Father's house are many mansions if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4And where I go you know, and the way you know."
5Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"
6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Now this is not just arrogant opinion this is what followers of the Messiah Jesus believe because Jesus said it plainly Himself. So part of our faith is the belief that there is only one way to God and that is through the Messiah Jesus.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
No. You don't get it...what768 said:
There can't be no explosion or implosion without time. It's impossible. All changes depend on time to happen. If there is no time, nothing can ever happen. But if there is infinite time, than there was infinite time in the past (before today), so how long did it take for us to arrive at the present moment? An infinite amount of time. Which doesn't make sense. So in order words, it doesn't make sense the fact that we exist.
Truthseeker,
It is good that you now understand that nothing can happen without time but you are still very confused about the concepts of infinity. Infinity is not a numerical quantity that can be manipulated like other numbers. Infinity is something that has no boundary. You are tying yourself in knots when you talk about “an infinite amount of time” since you are thinking of infinity as a large number. When we say the universe has always existed then that means there was no beginning boundary condition. We cannot say anything meaningful about the quantity of time before the present – it remains undefined.
Once you correct your erroneous concept of infinity then an infinite universe and our place in it will start to make sense.
Take care
Cris
It is good that you now understand that nothing can happen without time but you are still very confused about the concepts of infinity. Infinity is not a numerical quantity that can be manipulated like other numbers. Infinity is something that has no boundary. You are tying yourself in knots when you talk about “an infinite amount of time” since you are thinking of infinity as a large number. When we say the universe has always existed then that means there was no beginning boundary condition. We cannot say anything meaningful about the quantity of time before the present – it remains undefined.
Once you correct your erroneous concept of infinity then an infinite universe and our place in it will start to make sense.
Take care
Cris