What is your view of death, afterlife (or lack of), heaven?
- Thread starter truth
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You are too funny.
Something can not come from nothing. That defies all science rules. Only people that fall for cheap magic tricks would share your believe that we were nothing, then became something, then will turn into nothing...We are not a bunny in a hat Mr. SnakeLord.
Technically, we were something before we were born since all of our matter still existed at that time (same goes after we die). Our matter just was not as organized as it is now. But I agree that we will not be able to maintain this highly-organized collection of matter that makes us alive after we die.
This is not true. Do some googling on virtual particles to see how something really can come from nothing.
Jade,
So if God exists wouldn’t he necessarily be like the Borg?
All evidence so far indicates that everything that exists has evolved; even computers have evolved from simpler mechanisms, and planets and stars coalesce from other matter as big bangs expand. With no evidence for anything having been intentionally created from nothing then a reasonable proposition seems to be that God would also have evolved from something.
This leads us to the grouping and merging of simpler intelligences over time until everything that could be intelligent had been absorbed into a single all knowing intelligence, i.e. God.
The Star Trek vision of the Borg of course is that they are evil and other beings are absorbed into the collective against their will. But what if individuals agreed to merge because they could see no other way to grow?
Perhaps the end of a big bang universe is the final emergence of a god, with sufficient power and intelligence to start another big bang and hence procreate.
So if God exists wouldn’t he necessarily be like the Borg?
All evidence so far indicates that everything that exists has evolved; even computers have evolved from simpler mechanisms, and planets and stars coalesce from other matter as big bangs expand. With no evidence for anything having been intentionally created from nothing then a reasonable proposition seems to be that God would also have evolved from something.
This leads us to the grouping and merging of simpler intelligences over time until everything that could be intelligent had been absorbed into a single all knowing intelligence, i.e. God.
The Star Trek vision of the Borg of course is that they are evil and other beings are absorbed into the collective against their will. But what if individuals agreed to merge because they could see no other way to grow?
Perhaps the end of a big bang universe is the final emergence of a god, with sufficient power and intelligence to start another big bang and hence procreate.
No need for googeling, I know enough about quantum physics to know that while energy can transfer between levels while emitting and absorbing, it's flat out wrong to call that or compare that with the nothing becoming something told by snakelord to explain how we didn't exist before birth.
Oh i'm sorry miss. pedantic, sure- we were a few molecules, atoms, whatever. That wasn't the point.
What were YOU before you were born, before you were a sperm?
Now.... if you can remember what you were way back then, tell me why it would be any different after you die.
To say we have an afterlife, go to heaven or any such thing seems a tad groundless. The evidence suggests we'd just turn back into a molecule or two with no conciousness, no knowledge, no memory, no sin vs lack of sin, no religious shit, no lakes of fire, nada.
What were YOU before you were born, before you were a sperm?
Now.... if you can remember what you were way back then, tell me why it would be any different after you die.
To say we have an afterlife, go to heaven or any such thing seems a tad groundless. The evidence suggests we'd just turn back into a molecule or two with no conciousness, no knowledge, no memory, no sin vs lack of sin, no religious shit, no lakes of fire, nada.
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Sure, he could be like the Borg. This might explain why God-based religions are bent on assimilation.
Then it's all good. But personally, I'm not ready for such growth and I don't know that I ever will be in my short time in this life.
I presume you are only asserting this in the hypothetical context that God does exist. If so, then yes, perhaps.
Not sure whether this was directed toward me (people often mistake me for a female because of the "Jade"). If it was, I understand the point you were making and agree that any person as a whole did not exist before he or she was born and will not exist after he or she dies.
I'm so glad you guys bring quantum to the discussion
How so ignorant of you......and since when do you actually have a point?
How am I supposed to know???, I suffered a memory misplacement due to the trauma of birth and coming down a narrow fallopin tube in my mother womb. I also hear that people can have car accidents that renders them with a temporary or permanent memory loss, where they have no idea where they were before the accident, and that doesn't mean that they didn't exist before the accident and that their memories have no existance.
Where I was before I was born is with the unified grand maker of things, god, or what quantum physics calls, "the single entity of high energy source", and that's where I'll go along with all other matters when I die. God or single entity energy is the level that I need to bounce of to transfer from one mode to another.
Watch some blues clues to further your thought process. The dog teaches you how to first think, then look for clues, then last to write things down on the notebook.
How so ignorant of you......and since when do you actually have a point?
How am I supposed to know???, I suffered a memory misplacement due to the trauma of birth and coming down a narrow fallopin tube in my mother womb. I also hear that people can have car accidents that renders them with a temporary or permanent memory loss, where they have no idea where they were before the accident, and that doesn't mean that they didn't exist before the accident and that their memories have no existance.
Where I was before I was born is with the unified grand maker of things, god, or what quantum physics calls, "the single entity of high energy source", and that's where I'll go along with all other matters when I die. God or single entity energy is the level that I need to bounce of to transfer from one mode to another.
Watch some blues clues to further your thought process. The dog teaches you how to first think, then look for clues, then last to write things down on the notebook.
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Aww, what's the matter baby, life getting you down heh
Yeah good one...
Sure, that has relevance... :bugeye:
Time of the month is it? Calm down puppy.
Evidence would show that testosterone, nucleic acids, proteins, fats, monosaccharides, disaccharides etc etc do NOT have any concious thought, any knowledge, any awareness of being.
Sure, if you want to say the testosterone was living it up with god before being sent down into a mans testicle then fair enough but "look for clues", as you so rightly said. I see no clues leading to a belief that we were something other than simple molecules before we were conceived.
In the same way, when we die we will once again become nothing but a molecule with no thought, no awareness, no caring.
This would negate an "afterlife" in the manner many people perceive it. Perhaps we'll all go live on a cloud as simple molecules but i'd ask you to cite some evidence to suggest such a thing. I could be wrong, but i'm sure you'll provide a shit load of evidence to suggest otherwise.
So you saying that we are first molecule with no thought, memory, consciousness, ect....then all of a sudden like magic, god and behold, we acquire consciousnees, store massive amount of memory and thoughts, and again puff god and behold, we turn back into molecules and the memory and data are swallowed up by the cat in the hat.??
Even the simple computer, can not loose it's data except to another source, recycle bin, ect....Where the hell are is our programming and data going to.
Except that decay is not the cause of memory and awareness loss in humans. A perfectly fresh corpse is as good as a thousand year mummy. A well preserved cooled body have no awareness or conscious as well. Similarly, a sleepy person has no way of reaching his consciousness until he wakes up. So bringing up the decay process is a desperate decoy effort from you to escape reasonable discussion.
A computer devoid of it's power source still have memory and data, just data unavailable for our use.
It is if we are talking about the decay of synapses and neurons in the brain that are responsible for memory and awareness.
True. But if the actual hard drive decays, then the information stored thereupon will be lost.
well, i don't know about all you others (some i do, specifically the people who've posted here), but i don't believe in heaven. it is horribly tied to human want, when our belief's should have no impact on what IS. the pearly gates of heaven? it is just a dramatization, it is what humans want it to be. heaven about 300 years ago was just beyond the clouds, a place where everyone got fed and was warm, it was not the ubber-entity that heaven has evolved into today. i reckon it is also an ointment to the human condition of wanting to live forever.
for me religion seems all about ME (as in the individual person). it's a special form of arrogance. god SACRIFICED his ONLY SON for ME. god created US. WE are GOD'S GLORY. WE are IMPORTANT. WE are UNIQUE from all other LIFE. WE are worth the PERSONAL time of GOD. see, all that stuff doesn't sit with me. it is all too close to a humans idea of what god would be relating to US. it doesn't make sense to me that a most powerful god would not find a way to not have to sacrifice his only son.
so that little aside basically explains why i don't believe in the afterlife. it is not relevant to me, because as soon as i figured out i didn't want to live forever in some heaven, these things became transparent to me. on the other hand i believe in a semi-reincarnation type of thought based on energy, as it cannot be destroyed or created, it can only change forms. the energy that has been apart of me and has already left me is being used by something else, as the energy i used was used by something before me. it's not in anyway spiritual energy, but collective energy. yeah, in a way i guess we're all linked together somehow.
), but i don't believe in heaven. it is horribly tied to human want, when our belief's should have no impact on what IS. the pearly gates of heaven? it is just a dramatization, it is what humans want it to be. heaven about 300 years ago was just beyond the clouds, a place where everyone got fed and was warm, it was not the ubber-entity that heaven has evolved into today. i reckon it is also an ointment to the human condition of wanting to live forever. for me religion seems all about ME (as in the individual person). it's a special form of arrogance. god SACRIFICED his ONLY SON for ME. god created US. WE are GOD'S GLORY. WE are IMPORTANT. WE are UNIQUE from all other LIFE. WE are worth the PERSONAL time of GOD. see, all that stuff doesn't sit with me. it is all too close to a humans idea of what god would be relating to US. it doesn't make sense to me that a most powerful god would not find a way to not have to sacrifice his only son.
so that little aside basically explains why i don't believe in the afterlife. it is not relevant to me, because as soon as i figured out i didn't want to live forever in some heaven, these things became transparent to me. on the other hand i believe in a semi-reincarnation type of thought based on energy, as it cannot be destroyed or created, it can only change forms. the energy that has been apart of me and has already left me is being used by something else, as the energy i used was used by something before me. it's not in anyway spiritual energy, but collective energy. yeah, in a way i guess we're all linked together somehow.
Really? So, what is? However, regardless to that, it depends on the context with which you say that..... Are we talking about forgetting what we had for breakfast yesterday or the complete decay of one's brain? If your entire brain decayed it's pertinent to state you'd have no memory and no awareness, that's the whole point. You can argue this, but i'd like you to provide something in support. You've been very quick to attempt insult and slander but haven't even begun to back up what you say- instead, trying to compare this all with car crashes and computers.
I used your analogy to show that decay is a reality and is permanent. When something decays it doesn't miraculously pull itself back together and start being aware again. While during one's life you can witness regeneration of cells etc, this does not happen when someone is dead. The cells themselves die.
We can all hope for some wispy bit of smoke that comes out of our bodies and flies off into the cosmos to enjoy some time basking in the light of the sun- the evidence just doesn't support it.
Neither of which show any sign of awareness, conciousness, memory, or happiness of being with god. When the brain dies, it's dead- and so are you. The cells die, the brain decays, and that's that. a worm eats the remains and then poops it out- and we end up as fertiliser. Sure, worm poop might have awareness aswell.... :bugeye:
And if there's no activity except for cell decay- the cooled body might aswell be hung on the wall alongside the deer trophy.
Maybe nobody has ever told you this before but sleepy people and dead people don't have too much in common.
Lol ok. I thought it was a perfectly reasonable discussion. Someone asked what we think happens after death, and just like everyone else, i stated my case. You then decided to hurl a few baseless insults at me for posperity, and much that i don't mind them, it leaves you in no position to be making statements about reasonable discussions.
In simple terms:
Man A dies. Cells start to decay, (including brain tissues/cells). He gets stuck in a box and continues to decay. Everything breaks down and decays, (including his brain). At the moment of death the brain ceases to function. (there may be some left over electrical impulses which cause corpses feet to jiggle and shit- but that's hardly a sign that they're actually playing football inside the pearly gates). We all die the same way- be it by cancer or old age it actually boils down to brain death. The brain decays and everything you were decays with it- UNLESS you waft off into space invisible. Provide evidence for such a notion and it will be considered carefully.
Not if it's completely decayed.
I can agree with that. Just 13.7 billion years ago we (all the matter and energy that comprises us) were all crammed into the same small space (along with the rest of the matter and energy in the observable universe).
The only exception I can think of is if the brain ceases to function and it is later revitalized before the cell decay has caused irreparable damage.
I was watching this programme about cryogenics where they were saying they can 'freeze' a person and stop cell decay but currently they have no way of reversing the process, and can only hope they will find a way to do so some time in the future.
While i can understand people who are in a serious position being cryogenically frozen to prevent cell decay and hopefully bring them 'back to life' some time in the future, it doesn't really stop cell decay but merely pauses it.
Inevitably there will come a time, be it now or sometime in the next millennium, that the person will die just like everyone else and suffer the same cell decay everyone else does. It's good to prolong life, but it doesn't prevent eventual death.- Unless a way is found to make humans immortal- but then heaven/afterlife wouldn't be relevant.
If man remains mortal, he will at some stage die and decay.
Sure, we could have a 'soul' that wafts off into the next life, but there's nothing to support the notion, and in context of the word, is nothing more than a fantasy.
It is depressing to think that when i die everything i know, everything i've seen, everything i've done will die along with me but that's what all the evidence points to. As such i write, (stories, diaries, poems, etc), so perhaps one day someone can sit down and get a part of me, a part of my life.
Roy Batty:
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the darkness at Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain. Time to die."
Deckard :
"I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life, anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die."
~Raithere
I didnt believe in life after death until i experienced being in a room with someone close to me who had just died. As I kissed her goodbye and later i felt her presence. I knew she was not gone.
Similarly, I knew it was wrong to kill myself at a younger age, from an appreciationt hat came upon me of the miracle of life and its asacredness and how disrespectful it would be to kill myself when we are so lucky to have happened to be alive and experiuence consciousness and fit into the environment as we do.
Similarly, I knew it was right to become engage dto my husband after we had spent time together doing something on a sunny day outside and were comfortable with each other and happy and content.
These are the sum total of the things in my life i have known through intuition or spiritual experience/instinct.
Nevertheless, they are all powerful parts of my reality. Not everything in life has to be evidenced scientifically and not every decision ahs to be made woithout reference to deep intuition.
I do not believe in God, I dont think- certainly not a creator god.
Similarly, I knew it was wrong to kill myself at a younger age, from an appreciationt hat came upon me of the miracle of life and its asacredness and how disrespectful it would be to kill myself when we are so lucky to have happened to be alive and experiuence consciousness and fit into the environment as we do.
Similarly, I knew it was right to become engage dto my husband after we had spent time together doing something on a sunny day outside and were comfortable with each other and happy and content.
These are the sum total of the things in my life i have known through intuition or spiritual experience/instinct.
Nevertheless, they are all powerful parts of my reality. Not everything in life has to be evidenced scientifically and not every decision ahs to be made woithout reference to deep intuition.
I do not believe in God, I dont think- certainly not a creator god.