What is your belief regarding the existence of "God"?
- Thread starter SolusCado
- Start date
You beat me to the punch. The poll has now been added.First of all, if the answer is yes to belief in god, then what god ? whose god ?
It makes way more sense that man created the idea of god to explain the unknown because he was essentially in the dark when it came to explaining natural phenomena.
And since there is a lack of evidence of it's existence then the best answer is that it does not exist. Unless better information comes along there is no reason to believe.
I do know that anyone who believes can not successfully answer the contradictions built into the belief itself.
For example, does it have control over us or do we have freewill ?
Does it live within or outside of the universe ?
Any answer you give will create additional questions which expose a contradiction. Up and until the point that one states that god is just a part of everything and everybody and thus indistinquishable from reality as we know it, IOW god does not need to be believed in for us to continue on our way.
It adds nothing and takes nothing away.
It makes way more sense that man created the idea of god to explain the unknown because he was essentially in the dark when it came to explaining natural phenomena.
And since there is a lack of evidence of it's existence then the best answer is that it does not exist. Unless better information comes along there is no reason to believe.
I do know that anyone who believes can not successfully answer the contradictions built into the belief itself.
For example, does it have control over us or do we have freewill ?
Does it live within or outside of the universe ?
Any answer you give will create additional questions which expose a contradiction. Up and until the point that one states that god is just a part of everything and everybody and thus indistinquishable from reality as we know it, IOW god does not need to be believed in for us to continue on our way.
It adds nothing and takes nothing away.
For the purposes of the poll, it is irrelevant - that is why I put the word in quotation marks.
Makes way more sense than what? Frankly, I don't think man in general - much less early man - is creative enough to simply invent the idea of God. Everything else surrounding the development of homo sapien and our technologies has been based on observations of the natural world, followed by guesses as to what caused what we were observing. It is a lot easier to apply some natural-world guess than to INVENT the idea of a God. Like, what was going through that first person's head when he thought of the initial idea?
This logic only applies to things for which there CAN be evidence. I am reminded of the theory of black holes. For decades, they were a mathematical anomaly, with absolutely zero evidence supporting the theory that they might exist. Eventually, circumstantial evidence was found, and few would challenge their existence now, but human discovery is rife with ideas that started out without evidence. In any case, there are plenty of believers in God who would claim through their own personal experiences that they HAVE witnessed the effects of God in their life.
Wow - that is an extraordinarily bold statement that I will take you up on.
"It" doesn't control us; it CREATED us ... along with the entire universe - which, according to the most modern understandings of physics, encompassess all of space and time, meaning the Creator, external to said Universe, is also external to the concept of time, without which the concept of free will has no relevance. So, he created a thing (much like I might create a photograph or painting). We all exist in our entirety in said universe, so there are technically no choices to be made - from a purely physical standpoint. Consciousness itself would seem to be little more than an illusion, but an illusion made real by its very existence (I think, therefore I am). As such, free will would fall under the same category - illusory by virtue of the fact that there are no choices to be made, but real enough by its very perception (I can choose to sit down or stand up).
As the Creator of the universe, it would stand to reason that "God" exists in some capacity outside the universe. That isnt to say there aren't reflections of his being in his creation (just as a photographer or painter's works are usually quite clearly recognized because of the nature of the artist). In some sense, their works become part of who they are. (Just not in a physical reality sense.)
Show me. Ask away.
No one said that God DID need to be "believed in" for us to continue on our way.... Where is that coming from? Would you care to rephrase?
It adds nothing and takes nothing away.[/QUOTE]
I think the idea of God is as silly and unrealistic as the idea of witchcraft or ghosts, a relic of a time when mankind knew far less about the physical world, apart from practical living skills (which primitive people might have known more about).
how can you possibly not believe in ghosts? don't you watch the syfy channel?
I don't watch any channel.
god denotes an entity or individual for most. the universe could be a combination of many disparate pieces or entities (interpretation) that have coalesced together either by accident or not, probably the former.
i think the problem with the concept of god is that it is usually viewed in terms of just the laws of nature or as a singular entity. it may be far more complicated than that. for instance, if another universe exists that is entirely different in it's laws or it's composition, then what some view as god or laws of nature is only temporal or within context which can mislead one (if that were the case) to believe this is all there is.
for instance, the universe may be similar to a chemical reaction but the elements not necessarily belonging together. this also may be the distinguishment of good and evil, heaven and hell etc as acknowledgement on some level of the duality and constant struggle as well as the contradictions we face in this existence.
i think the problem with the concept of god is that it is usually viewed in terms of just the laws of nature or as a singular entity. it may be far more complicated than that. for instance, if another universe exists that is entirely different in it's laws or it's composition, then what some view as god or laws of nature is only temporal or within context which can mislead one (if that were the case) to believe this is all there is.
for instance, the universe may be similar to a chemical reaction but the elements not necessarily belonging together. this also may be the distinguishment of good and evil, heaven and hell etc as acknowledgement on some level of the duality and constant struggle as well as the contradictions we face in this existence.
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SolusCado,
Well, every primitive society created some form of belief in a supernatural entity or myth, including creation stories about how we came to be. So yes, they are creative enough to create the idea of god. It was essentially a survival mechanism, they were scared crapless of dying, they were trying to create answers for questions they could not yet answer.
How would a primitive man interpret the meaning of thunder and lightning ?
Floods ? Earthquakes ? etc.
Ok, so when there is evidence of god, then come talk to me.
You example is flawed. Is god possible to know or IOW provide evidence of. So unlike chasing theories and hypothesis about the universe and everntually determining the validity of such, with God, there can only be faith. Never can there be knowledge.
Sure, and as long as they aren't starting wars and killing people because they claim god told them to I have no problem with it. It's also not evidence of god to others.
Be my guest.
So god then has no say or control over our lives ? Or does he ?
No choices to be made ? But I can choose to sit up or down ?
You don't see the contradiciton ?
Does god save people from car crashes ?
So does it interact with us in some capacity ?
Since people are claiming to have witnessed the effects of god in their lives then how can it simultaneuosly live outside of the universe with it's LAWS and still come to be part of peoples lives ?
Sure, god is not a seperate entity that lives outside of the universe. He is part of everything, he is within us, he is reality. He does not make choices for us, he does not have control over our lives or what happens in the world.
It is everything. So once we get to this point, there is no separation from reality as we know it. So there is no reason to believe in a separate entity anymore. Thus, no reason for god.
The reason I state this is because if you face the contradictions that you yourself should have come to realize and asked yourself, you would understand the only workable concept of god is what I stated above. In which case the importance of believing in an entity disappears.
Otherwise you can explain to me how it is outside of the universe and it's laws but can interract with each of us ?
How we have freewill but god is in control ?
Well, every primitive society created some form of belief in a supernatural entity or myth, including creation stories about how we came to be. So yes, they are creative enough to create the idea of god. It was essentially a survival mechanism, they were scared crapless of dying, they were trying to create answers for questions they could not yet answer.
How would a primitive man interpret the meaning of thunder and lightning ?
Floods ? Earthquakes ? etc.
Ok, so when there is evidence of god, then come talk to me.
You example is flawed. Is god possible to know or IOW provide evidence of. So unlike chasing theories and hypothesis about the universe and everntually determining the validity of such, with God, there can only be faith. Never can there be knowledge.
Sure, and as long as they aren't starting wars and killing people because they claim god told them to I have no problem with it. It's also not evidence of god to others.
Be my guest.
So god then has no say or control over our lives ? Or does he ?
No choices to be made ? But I can choose to sit up or down ?
You don't see the contradiciton ?
Does god save people from car crashes ?
So does it interact with us in some capacity ?
Since people are claiming to have witnessed the effects of god in their lives then how can it simultaneuosly live outside of the universe with it's LAWS and still come to be part of peoples lives ?
Sure, god is not a seperate entity that lives outside of the universe. He is part of everything, he is within us, he is reality. He does not make choices for us, he does not have control over our lives or what happens in the world.
It is everything. So once we get to this point, there is no separation from reality as we know it. So there is no reason to believe in a separate entity anymore. Thus, no reason for god.
The reason I state this is because if you face the contradictions that you yourself should have come to realize and asked yourself, you would understand the only workable concept of god is what I stated above. In which case the importance of believing in an entity disappears.
Otherwise you can explain to me how it is outside of the universe and it's laws but can interract with each of us ?
How we have freewill but god is in control ?
well if you were to, you would see an overwhelming abundance of modern testimony and evidence of ghosts. :shrug:
None of it valid. I only worship my Goddess Lori. I'm pretty sure she exists.
Do you have a non-subjective test that can be run? An experiment in which everyone gets the same result? I'm all ears. :bugeye:
that's ridiculous. if it was proven beyond doubt, most would not have a problem with admitting it's existence.
it's so far the other direction right now, the assertion is even ridiculous to make.
what i find strange is most people almost never consider that "god," um, possibility? may be an asshole. that's very strange considering the state of affairs on earth.
maybe what people think is god, is not god at all but we're inside the body of another being. maybe it's a murdering, raping, cheating, lying, psycho predator with perhaps just a teeny shred of decency or good and we're living in his universe and have to deal with it until it dies? :shrug:
and perhaps heaven is the person standing next to him who is a true saint? :shrug:
maybe what people think is god, is not god at all but we're inside the body of another being. maybe it's a murdering, raping, cheating, lying, psycho predator with perhaps just a teeny shred of decency or good and we're living in his universe and have to deal with it until it dies? :shrug:
and perhaps heaven is the person standing next to him who is a true saint? :shrug: