What is the real reason christians join scientific forums?
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
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TOR,
All your quotes seem like dishonest and twisted propaganda. I guess if I were to dig further we might discover some balanced truth. But really, quoting scientists from the past when even the hint of being an atheist would mean to be excluded from society – they are hardly likely to tell their true feelings. Einstein was always deliberately and ambiguously elusive, again bear in mind his position and the predominant expectations of his times.
Umm – he didn’t have much choice, it was either say that or be executed.
Very nice but most of his life and most of his writings and his real passion was alchemy and magic. Some brilliance but otherwise something of a nutter.
Curious that in a private letter in reply to the direct question “are you an atheist” he stated that to a Jesuit priest I am an atheist. Hardly a firm denial of atheism.
Belonged to a weird Christian cult and hardly mainstream.
All your quotes seem like dishonest and twisted propaganda. I guess if I were to dig further we might discover some balanced truth. But really, quoting scientists from the past when even the hint of being an atheist would mean to be excluded from society – they are hardly likely to tell their true feelings. Einstein was always deliberately and ambiguously elusive, again bear in mind his position and the predominant expectations of his times.
Cris said:
I pity you, squirming around in your refusal to accept scientists can be theists, what about the ones who are still alive, they all lying too?
Christians come here because they want to test their belief and try to convince themselves that they believe the right thing.
Atheists who come to the religion subforum do it for the same reason: they come here because they want to test their belief and try to convince themselves that they believe the right thing.
Most people do this subconsciously, so they don't know exactly why.
The things that people discuss and speak, they don't yet believe... If they believed, they wouldn't need to discuss and speak of them. Like a person who says he is intelligent, he isn't intelligent at all... like Jesus said: "Everyone who exalts himself will be humbled and everyone who humbles himself will be exalted."
So, as long as I speak of these things, I'm not yet convinced that I'm "right".
Consciousness is a separation between me/emptiness and you/universe/infinity, between inner and outer. Because everything is conscious[ness], we see duality everywhere in nature, like men and women, cold and warm...
The idea of God is a result of basic logic.
The answer to who answers everything because everyone/everything is "who".
When primitive humans saw the incredible complexity and big world, it was only logical to assume that an allpowerful God must have done this. It's still logical, to some people...
the infinity (everything) of emptiness.
and... "illusion".
now, in the present moment. time exists only in the thoughts/consciousness. without consciousness, there is no understanding of "time".
nowhere (infinite small point) and everywhere (infinite)
Voltaier: "God is a circle whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere."
because emptiness has infinite possibilities, the so called "emptiness" actually includes everything.
the "separation" in/between the infinity of/and nothingness is the most significant factor. understand magnetism and you understand how.
Light means consciousness in most world religions.
since everything is the same thing, god is sometimes referred to as consciousness, but not in this case. here he is the creator of consciousness/light/heaven/"days".
Atheists who come to the religion subforum do it for the same reason: they come here because they want to test their belief and try to convince themselves that they believe the right thing.
Most people do this subconsciously, so they don't know exactly why.
The things that people discuss and speak, they don't yet believe... If they believed, they wouldn't need to discuss and speak of them. Like a person who says he is intelligent, he isn't intelligent at all... like Jesus said: "Everyone who exalts himself will be humbled and everyone who humbles himself will be exalted."
So, as long as I speak of these things, I'm not yet convinced that I'm "right".
By separation of negative pole from the divine oneness.Theoryofrelativity said:
Consciousness is a separation between me/emptiness and you/universe/infinity, between inner and outer. Because everything is conscious[ness], we see duality everywhere in nature, like men and women, cold and warm...
Matter. Everything that has the will to survive is conscious.
God wrote what "you" just wrote. Goddidit, or Ididit, is the answer to everything. There is no real explanation, only more infinity. The only real explanation is the everexisting nothing (everything)wsionynw said:God must have done it
The idea of God is a result of basic logic.
Science is your God/belief. Belief is science, and science is belief.
Absane said:
The answer to who answers everything because everyone/everything is "who".
When primitive humans saw the incredible complexity and big world, it was only logical to assume that an allpowerful God must have done this. It's still logical, to some people...
the infinity (everything) of emptiness.
and... "illusion".
now, in the present moment. time exists only in the thoughts/consciousness. without consciousness, there is no understanding of "time".
nowhere (infinite small point) and everywhere (infinite)
Voltaier: "God is a circle whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere."
because emptiness has infinite possibilities, the so called "emptiness" actually includes everything.
the "separation" in/between the infinity of/and nothingness is the most significant factor. understand magnetism and you understand how.
perplexity said:
Light means consciousness in most world religions.
since everything is the same thing, god is sometimes referred to as consciousness, but not in this case. here he is the creator of consciousness/light/heaven/"days".
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c7ityi_ said:
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M*W: What a very thought-provoking statement! I appreciate your input.
Theoryofrelativity said:
Wow, those are some interesting poles and neither of them seem to have anything to do with scientific discovery. Science has provided evidence that reality doesn't appear to have contradiction / execution flaw and the concept of random doesn't appear to objectively exist.
There is not one iota of evidence that I am aware of that suggests a reality-creating sentient life form exists.
Humans naturally anthropmorphize things. If scientists (or anyone else) start seeing patterns within reality then it will go right through that anthro-filter where it's given some eyes, a grimace, and some ass hair.
I think Wes said saomething on the lines of 'God' is an anthropmorphization of reality. It certainly seems to be the case.
Crunchy Cat said:
from web
yockey
" One must conclude that, contrary to the established and current wisdom a scenario describing the genesis of life on earth by chance and natural causes which can be accepted on the basis of fact and not faith has not yet been written"
Theoryofrelativity said:
Hey look, I can post quotes too
David Attenborough: I don’t think there is room for exploring ID as if it were a science. I think there is room for looking at it as a philosophy just as there is for many other philosophical thoughts but to call it science is not accurate and dangerous
Prattle on a bout ID all you want, but not under the name of science.
I think the religious (Christians included) come here for various reasons.
The most obvious, and productive, being to share their beliefs with others and through that general sharing come away with a better knowledge of the human condition - just like everybody else.
Of course, some come to have a laugh at the amazing thoughts, 'facts' and conjecture that self declared rational people can come up with at times - spouting like water from Old Faithful.
As Theory of Relativity aptly illustrated, the religious (Christians included) have every right as any other person to be here.
It is rather obvious that the loudest, most vehement, and vulgar of the individuals on the Religion forum have a very superficial grasp of what science is.
Certainly, if one were to be constantly interested and engaged in debating or learning science, they would not be here.
After all, the Religion forum is listed under Philosophy, not science. Blame the creators and administrators of the forum.
Or maybe just blame the one who started the thread... apparently there was not much rationale put into it.
The most obvious, and productive, being to share their beliefs with others and through that general sharing come away with a better knowledge of the human condition - just like everybody else.
Of course, some come to have a laugh at the amazing thoughts, 'facts' and conjecture that self declared rational people can come up with at times - spouting like water from Old Faithful.
As Theory of Relativity aptly illustrated, the religious (Christians included) have every right as any other person to be here.
It is rather obvious that the loudest, most vehement, and vulgar of the individuals on the Religion forum have a very superficial grasp of what science is.
Certainly, if one were to be constantly interested and engaged in debating or learning science, they would not be here.
After all, the Religion forum is listed under Philosophy, not science. Blame the creators and administrators of the forum.
Or maybe just blame the one who started the thread... apparently there was not much rationale put into it.
Perhaps its the same reason that atheists come to religious threads
Theoryofrelativity said:
Yockey appears to be missing some education about ecosystems, evolution, energy, mechanics, chemistry, and critical thinking for a position to be taken which dismisses evidence (the kind reality provides) as 'faith'.
What is true is that we don't have complete knowledge of everything that has occured between the proto-formation of this planet and this very moment. A common failure in thought is when such lack of knowledge is seen as a void that must be filled with 'God' did it.
lightgigantic said:
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M*W: Since I don't know the answer to this, I would like to ask the forum this question. What are your observations about atheists infiltrating religious forums?
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Sarkus said:
Science seeks to uncover and resolve mysteries, religion seeks to know the origin of the mystery. Religion depends on the universe being beyond our understanding. Only bad religion (like bad science) rushes to fill the vacuum with unsupported explanations.
Yes, I agree - "God did it" is no explanation. Science has been described as "exploring the mind of God". For instance - we uncover the elegant mathematics that underpins our existence and marvel at it's cleverness. Whose ingenuity are we admiring - where did it come from?Sarkus said:
I do despair that religion is so often divorced from reality e.g. creationism. This 'superstition' (as KennyJC calls it) is what science rightfully opposes.
However, philosophy and religion (especially christianity) have often cross-fertilised each other. Philosophy poses two types of questions: "What is reality" and also "How should man live?" I see science and religion as complementary in answering those two questions.
Who's pretending?KennyJC said:
A moderate theist worldview is as rationally coherent as any atheist's worldview - just less blinkered.
I see dogmatic atheists as like 19th centuary scientists who thought they'd explained the universe apart from a few loose ends (like black body radiation). They now look pretty stupid with the quantum and relativity revolutions just around the corner. Agnosticism (theistic or atheistic) is the only rational and epistemologically defensible position.
Medicine Woman said:
With the quote you chose for your avatar heading I think its pretty clear what the general agenda is
I joined a religious forum (www.religious-debate.com) as an agnostic atheist. I vigorously challenged some of their religious beliefs, however, I doubt anyone but me was changed by it.Medicine Woman said:
The only outcome of joining any forum is to challenge and clarify your own views in the context of other people's belief systems. The more divergent the range of opinions, the better.