What is the nature of God/Good

[wesmorris]

Dear Wesmorris,

You are just one of those guys who love to talk yourself away from any semblance of common sense.

LOL. Uh huh. You can't refute it, so you attack my character? Fuck you.

You just use words to create conceptual patterns -- no Truth or Reality -- just Cobwebs of the Mind.

What do you know of my mind? Honestly son, I don't think you could fathom it.

Grow up and we'll talk.

I'm a dad, a professional, an adult. I'm 35 years old.

With an attitude like yours - child - I have no use for conversation with you.

Fucking punk.

 

[SkippingStones]

You fail to account for the complexity of interacting perceptions.

As long as it is not possible to actually account for this complexity, there will always be a gulf between discussion and reality. You can't put life into words or thoughts as we know it.
No matter what we call 'good' or 'bad', when the 'shit hit's the fan', theoretics go out the window.
It's not futile to try to discuss it anyway, but any absolute truth expressed in words will always fall short. We will be ourselves.
We make our own truth and nobody but us 'fathom' our mind.

So, how can we take this into account when we attempt to put reality in ink? Are we losing something when we only take what is believed common between us?

 

[wesmorris]

As long as it is not possible to actually account for this complexity, there will always be a gulf between discussion and reality.

My initial post in this thread covers it, so it's possible.

You can't put life into words or thoughts as we know it.

Whose life? I can put my life into thoughts, and I can put good and bad in terms of the individual - as I've done.

No matter what we call 'good' or 'bad', when the 'shit hit's the fan', theoretics go out the window.

Untrue. When the shit hits the fan, you do what is good for your survival as you perceive it.

It's not futile to try to discuss it anyway, but any absolute truth expressed in words will always fall short.

Fatalist. Perhaps the only absolute truth is that truth is subjective.

We will be ourselves.

That's pretty much what I said the first time, except in terms how good and bad work into it.

 

[Leo Volont]

LOL. Uh huh. You can't refute it, so you attack my character? Fuck you.



What do you know of my mind? Honestly son, I don't think you could fathom it.



I'm a dad, a professional, an adult. I'm 35 years old.

With an attitude like yours - child - I have no use for conversation with you.

Fucking punk.

35 years old. Ha! You little Baby! I was making out with Joanie Mitchel at Woodstock while you were still pooping your diapers. Naked, drunk, covered in mud and high on LSD my thoughts would have been more coherent then that crap you're now trying to pass along stone cold sober. Its just one of those nasty facts of life that you can't do anything about inherent stupidity... except shut up and try to hide it. But that would take Wisdom and you obviously do not have that either.

 

[SkippingStones]

Whose life? I can put my life into thoughts, and I can put good and bad in terms of the individual

You cannot live completely in thoughts formed with the logic of words.

It seems circular to use words to describe it, but it seems helpful nonetheless.

When the shit hits the fan, you do what is good for your survival as you perceive it.

The key is perception. Does the man who sacrifices himself so that another may live perceive that his act is good for his survival?
We cannot know, logically. There are to many factors to look at it as a whole.

 

[wesmorris]

You cannot live completely in thoughts formed with the logic of words.

My thoughts are not formed only with words - and I don't see how that is relevant to my assertion of behavior. I didn't say you "word think" everything. I said how your subconsious manages your behavior, and how your thoughts/emotions in reflection of that behavior, modify it towards a goal. Why would you think I implied "thoughts formed only with the logic of words"?

It seems circular to use words to describe it, but it seems helpful nonetheless.

You don't have to to think about it, as your thoughts include more than words. You only have words with which to communicate to the other people... so you're constrained due to lack of tools. It's circular in the sense that only you can know the fundamental meaning behind your words.

The key is perception. Does the man who sacrifices himself so that another may live perceive that his act is good for his survival?

If he's dead he doesn't percieve it at all eh? Regardless, the answer is obviously dependent on the man in question.

We cannot know, logically. There are to many factors to look at it as a whole.

That wholly depends on what evidence you accept as true. Different people have different standards. That's why there are christians you know. Hehe.

Refute my first post in this thread if you disagree with it.

 

[mustafhakofi]

35 years old. Ha! You little Baby! I was making out with Joanie Mitchel at Woodstock while you were still pooping your diapers. Naked, drunk, covered in mud and high on LSD my thoughts would have been more coherent then that crap you're now trying to pass along stone cold sober. Its just one of those nasty facts of life that you can't do anything about inherent stupidity... except shut up and try to hide it. But that would take Wisdom and you obviously do not have that either.

and yet another dream, Leo.
of course you was, there there,mummy make it better.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Leo Volont: 35 years old. Ha! You little Baby! I was making out with Joanie Mitchel at Woodstock while you were still pooping your diapers. Naked, drunk, covered in mud and high on LSD my thoughts would have been more coherent then that crap you're now trying to pass along stone cold sober. Its just one of those nasty facts of life that you can't do anything about inherent stupidity... except shut up and try to hide it.
*************
M*W: Speaking of those "nasty facts of life," back in my rocker chick days, when my band opened for the Rolling Stones, Jerry Garcia tried to make out with me at a party. What he had on his mind wasn't sex but a little shot of heroin. I told him to get lost, and he did.

 

[Cyperium]

What is bad:

That which harms anyone other than self, is bad.
that intent to decieve, coherse, or use force agaist anyone is bad.
To manipulate the ignorance of others, and force your opinions to them with the intent to decieve is bad!.

What is good:

That which benefits you and others, is good.
That you don't force opinions on others, but bring choices for others to choose. is good.

Well that's an atempt, however the question of good or bad is really a study of morality. And what is to be moral.

Godless

I agree with you overall. But I would also think that harming yourself is bad too (which you said that harming anyone other than yourself).

Harming yourself leads to sadness to others as well. Who likes to see their loved ones harm themselves?

 

[kula]

35 years old. Ha! You little Baby! I was making out with Joanie Mitchel at Woodstock while you were still pooping your diapers. Naked, drunk, covered in mud and high on LSD my thoughts would have been more coherent then that crap you're now trying to pass along stone cold sober. Its just one of those nasty facts of life that you can't do anything about inherent stupidity... except shut up and try to hide it. But that would take Wisdom and you obviously do not have that either.

Obviously the LSD had different effects to most people !

If you are a religious person (and you have expanded the use of your mind with LSD) why havnt you worked out the ego thing, and the being nice to people thing ? Surely you must have worked out that, using your methods of communication, people will not take seriously what you are saying as it makes you appear arrogant, and there are a lot of people on forums who dont want to learn but get a kick out of pretending to be learned.

Most people can see that without taking acid.

You have some really interesting points, but they are lost in the huffle and ego ! LSD and God deserve better representation !

kula

 

[Godless]

Harming yourself leads to sadness to others as well. Who likes to see their loved ones harm themselves?

True!; but i was refering to generalities i.e. Smoking cigs, weed, is bad for you, yet no one is forcing you to do it, drinking beer or alcohol is bad for you but again no one forces you to do it. However if you'r intent is to "FORCE" someone to smoke weed, or get drunk with you so you can easily coherse and seduce, is morally bad.

If you physically hurt yourself, you need psychological help.
If your depressed and want to comit suitside, you need a psychiatrist.
However if you want to commit suitside because you have a fatal desease, then it's your right to do so.

Godless.

 

[enton]

Please list ideas or actions and define them as good or evil. Give evidence for your claim.

About GOOD

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;

2 Kings 20:19 Is it not good, if peace and truth be in my days?

1 Chronicles 16:34 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.


About EVIL


2 Chronicles 20:9 If, when evil cometh upon us, as the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name is in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help.

Psalms 140:11 Let not an evil speaker be established in the earth:

Proverbs 1:16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.

Proverbs 6:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.

 

[geeser]

enton ar'nt you supposed to be disproving the evill god has done, so why are you not doing it.
and do stop preaching.

 

[enton]

enton ar'nt you supposed to be disproving the evill god has done, so why are you not doing it.
and do stop preaching.

Another question solely for you: Do God make evil?

 

[Godless]

Eton: Do god make evil?

Godless: Death - 459 results; 2 Kings 19:35, That night the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning-there were all the dead bodies!



Kill - 421 results; Revelation 9:15, And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.



Blood - 392 results; Isaiah 49:26, I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine. Then all mankind will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior, your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.



In the Bible God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered. People in the Bible tried to force beliefs of imaginary paranormal beings onto others, and many times when they failed they killed in the name of God. A good start is the first two commandments, no others gods or idols - they result in Moses killing 3,000 friends and family in Exodus 32:27-28. David and Gideon slaughtered thousands. Jesus said in John 15:6: “Anyone who parts from me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.” Revelation 9:15 prophesize angels will kill a third of mankind. Is mass murder a principle of right conduct?



Sacrifice - 361 results; Judges 11:30-34, And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD 's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering." … 34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter.
http://www.non-religious.com/debate.html

I think this qualifies as evil!.

Godless

 

[Prince_James]

Leo:

Keep the ad hominem attacks on Wesmorris out of this.

Now, I ask you this: Why should the rich give to the poor? The rich are the very reason the poor exist. Without the rich, the poor would have no jobs. The rich are our greatest members of society, the backbone which supports all things. Why ought the rich -give- more than that? Why are they undeserving of a reciprocation that their position deserves even more? For all the good they do for society, to then be robbed?

In order to get a viewpoint that you seem to never have been exposed to, I would strongly recommend reading the novel "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.

Bourgeoise:

Have you finished "The Republic"? Or have you stopped at Thrasymachus' argument?

On morality as a whole:

I am unconvinced that morality, in the sense of an objective thing which we are obliged to correspond our actions to, exist. In essence, I am a reluctant - as I would rather like goodness to exist objectively - Moral Relativist/Subjectivist.

 

[enton]

Eton: Do god make evil?

Godless: Death - 459 results; 2 Kings 19:35, That night the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning-there were all the dead bodies!



Kill - 421 results; Revelation 9:15, And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.



Blood - 392 results; Isaiah 49:26, I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine. Then all mankind will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior, your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.



In the Bible God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered. People in the Bible tried to force beliefs of imaginary paranormal beings onto others, and many times when they failed they killed in the name of God. A good start is the first two commandments, no others gods or idols - they result in Moses killing 3,000 friends and family in Exodus 32:27-28. David and Gideon slaughtered thousands. Jesus said in John 15:6: “Anyone who parts from me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.” Revelation 9:15 prophesize angels will kill a third of mankind. Is mass murder a principle of right conduct?



Sacrifice - 361 results; Judges 11:30-34, And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD 's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering." … 34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter.
http://www.non-religious.com/debate.html

I think this qualifies as evil!.

Godless

So based on the above-mentioned. You`re answer is: Yes. Am I right?

 

[enton]

By the way, I found out that only few were interested about the topic. Now here comes the question. What do you know about "nature" ?
Follow-up question: Who has the power/control over nature, environmentally speaking?

 

[geeser]

I was making out with Joanie Mitchel at Woodstock. Naked, drunk, covered in mud and high on LSD

now we know why she O D'd.

 

[geeser]

Another question solely for you: Do God make evil?

yes, most definitely, biblical speaking.
if you believe the bible then you must also believe god made evil.
however I dont and as a god does not exist, then it could not of made evil.
the answer is yes if you believe in god and no if you dont believe, ok.

What do you know about "nature" ?

The world of living things and the forces and processes that produce and effects all the wonders of the material world.

Follow-up question: Who has the power/control over nature, environmentally speaking?

the sun, the moon, and comets, however it's not control, just an effect.
whats your point.