what is the fundemental difference between Islam, Judaism and Christianity?

[surenderer]

surrenderer, in the English language, "God" is a proper noun, a name, and has no plural. On the other hand, "god" as a noun refers to a class and can have a plural form. So I'll ask this, does Arabic have an equivalent "allah" (as opposed to "Allah") to the English "god"?

No....but It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.

BTW, talking of names, I recall coming across a long list of "approved" names referring to Allah. Anything to this?

Those are attributes as you can see by what the names mean in Arabic(I wont post all of them just provide a link )

http://g.msn.com/9SE/1?http://www.g...a5608234e22b847cad493e73cff&POS=5&CM=WPU&CE=5

 

[marv]

Thanks for the link, surrenderer, but what about "allah" (lower case) in Arabic?

Incidently, Yahweh in Hebrew means "I am who I am", or something to that effect. In other words, the Hebrew god could not be named because the thought at the time was that if you new a person's name, you had some degree of control over that person. I think that was first inferred in the Bible when Isaac fought all night with some being in the desert. (After so many years, my Sunday School lessons desert me. )

 

[surenderer]

Marv,
You see this is when it becomes difficult for me to translate because different words have different meanings or emphasis in different languages.....There is no allah only Allah in Arabic Al-means supreme ultimate grand Lah-single Deity off the top of my head I cant think of any single words that have the same effect or meaning in English (I am born and raised in America).....<shrug> thats probably the best explanation I can give you...peace :m:

 

[path]

Noble Verse 45:14 "Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each people according to what they have earned."

y ou forgot these verses

Noble Verse 3:85
Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

Noble Verse 5:72
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

Noble Verse 5:32 "...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people..."

Noble Verse 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."



And these

2: The Cow

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6

Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10

A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24

Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90

For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104

For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114

Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126

The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162

They will not emerge from the Fire. 167

Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174

How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 216

Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 257
3: The Family of 'Imran

Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 4

Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 10

Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 12

Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 21

Theirs will be a painful doom. 77

All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 85

Disbelievers will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 87-88

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 91

Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 105-6

Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 116

The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 131

We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 151

Theirs will be an awful doom. 176

Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 177

Disbelievers will have a shamful doom. 178

Disbelievers will go to Hell. 196
4: The Women

Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14

For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18

For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37

Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55

Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56

Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74

Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89

If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91

Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 115

Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 137

For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 138

Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 140

The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 145

You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 150-151

For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 160-1

God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 168-169
5: The Table Spread

Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 10

Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 33

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 36

Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 37

Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 38

Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 41

Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 45

Christians will be burned in the Fire. 72

Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 73

Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 86
6: The Cattle

Many generations have been destroyed by Allah. 6

Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 49

Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 70

When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 93

Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 113

Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 125

Allah will send everyone the Fire, except those he chooses to deliver. 128

Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah's will. 137
7: The Heights

How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 4-5

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 36

Entire nations have entered the Fire. Some get a double torment. 38

Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 40-41

Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: "Pour water on us." But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 50
8: Spoils of War

Allah will throw fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, and smite their necks and fingers. 12

Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 14

When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 15-16

Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 17

Those who disbelieve will be gathered into hell. 36

The angels smite the face and backs of disbelievers, saying: "Taste the punishment of burning!" 50

The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. 55

Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 59-60
9: Repentance

Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 3

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 5

Don't let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 17

of a painful doom to Christians and Jews. 34

Those who are tormented in the Fire will have their foreheads and backs branded. 35

If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 39

Disbelievers go to hell. 49

Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 60

Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 63

Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 68

Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 73

Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 74

For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 90

Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 111

Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 113

Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 123
10: Jonah

Disbelievers will have a boiling drink and a painful doom. 4

Those who neglect Allah's revelations will make their home in the Fire. 7-8

Allah has destroyed entire generations. 13

Those who disbelieved will face a dreadful doom. 70

Allah drowned those who disbelieved his revelations. 73

Moses asked Allah to harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they would not believe until they saw the painful doom. 88
11: Hud

Those in the Fire will suffer as long as the heavens and earth endure. 106-7

Allah will fill hell with humans and jinn. 119
13: The Thunder

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire 5

Those who do not answer Allah's call will go to hell. 18

Disbelievers will be tormented in this life, and suffer even more pain in the Hereafter. 33-34

The reward for disbelievers is the Fire. 35
14: Abraham

Woe unto the disbelievers. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2

Those who are in hell will be forced to drink festering water which they can hardly swallow. They will want to die, but they will not be able to. Theirs is a harsh doom. 16-17

Those in hell will be chained together. Their clothing will be made of pitch and fire will cover their faces. 49-50
16: The Bee

Disbelievers are evil and will dwell in hell forever. 27-29

Allah will add doom to doom for those who disbelieve. 88

Those who oppose Islam will face an awful doom. 94
17: The Children of Israel

Allah made hell to be a dungeon for disbelievers. 8

Allah has prepared a painful doom for those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 10

Allah destroyed entire towns. 16

How many generations Allah has destroyed since Noah! 17

Allah intends to burn people in hell. 18

Allah will destroy every town before the Day of Resurrection. 58

Allah will send disbelievers astray. Then he'll burn them in hell, increasing the flames from time to time. 97-98
18: The Cave

Allah has prepared a Fire for the disbelievers. When they want a shower, Allah will give them a shower of molten lead to burn their faces. 29

Those who are condemned to the Fire know they will have no way to escape. 53
There is an appointed time in which the doomed will find no escape. 58

Allah has destroyed many towns. 59

On a certain day, Allah will present hell, in plain view, to the disbelievers. 100

Allah will welcome the disbelievers into hell. 102

Hell is the reward for disbelievers because they made a jest of Allah's revelations and messengers. 106
19: Mary

Allah will pluck out from every sect those who should burn in hell. 69-70

Allah will record what disbelievers say and then prolong their torment. 77-79

Allah has sent the devils on the disbelievers to confuse them. 83

Allah has destroyed many generations. 98
21: The Prophets

Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 6

Disbelievers will not be able to put out the fire on their faces and backs. They will be stupefied and no one will help them. 39-40

Every person alive at the time of the flood was evil. So Allah drowned them all. 77

The disbelievers will stare in terror at what Allah has in store for them. 97-99
22: The Pilgrimage

When the doom of Allah comes, pregnant

Now that I have answered your question I will state that Islam believes that non-believers will be judged on judgment day......not by Muslims today. Do all muslims believe or follow this?....99% do which is why you dont see 1.5 billion muslims trying to convert the world. There are verses/surahs in the Koran which told the Prophet(pbuh) how to deal with unbelievers of his day but this was during wartime. It (the Koran) does the same thing with Christians and Jews also when they were also at war with Muslims. We have had this discussion before Path......You see the truth is in reality and reality is that 99% of the worlds Muslims aint got time to be worried about unbelievers salvation because we are worried about our own.......That ok though I still love ya Path

I am still waiting for someone to show me where allahs says that the fighting only applies for that specific time in the past. You know my beef is not with muslims it is with the quran, sunnah and hadith and the quran seems insanely obsessed over burning people in eternal flames.

 

[path]

Forgot to mention that list for brevitys sake is from skeptics annotated site under the listing cruelty in the quran. They also have a bible which you would surely find more entertaining

 

[surenderer]

y ou forgot these verses

Noble Verse 3:85
Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

Noble Verse 5:72
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.






Noble Verse 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."



And these

2: The Cow

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6

Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10

A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24

Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90

For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104

For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114

Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126

The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162

They will not emerge from the Fire. 167

Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174

How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 216

Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 257
3: The Family of 'Imran

Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 4

Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 10

Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 12

Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 21

Theirs will be a painful doom. 77

All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 85

Disbelievers will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 87-88

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 91

Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 105-6

Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 116

The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 131

We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 151

Theirs will be an awful doom. 176

Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 177

Disbelievers will have a shamful doom. 178

Disbelievers will go to Hell. 196
4: The Women

Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14

For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18

For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37

Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55

Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56

Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74

Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89

If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91

Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 115

Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 137

For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 138

Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 140

The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 145

You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 150-151

For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 160-1

God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 168-169
5: The Table Spread

Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 10

Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 33

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 36

Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 37

Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 38

Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 41

Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 45

Christians will be burned in the Fire. 72

Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 73

Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 86
6: The Cattle

Many generations have been destroyed by Allah. 6

Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 49

Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 70

When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 93

Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 113

Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 125

Allah will send everyone the Fire, except those he chooses to deliver. 128

Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah's will. 137
7: The Heights

How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 4-5

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 36

Entire nations have entered the Fire. Some get a double torment. 38

Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 40-41

Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: "Pour water on us." But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 50
8: Spoils of War

Allah will throw fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, and smite their necks and fingers. 12

Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 14

When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 15-16

Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 17

Those who disbelieve will be gathered into hell. 36

The angels smite the face and backs of disbelievers, saying: "Taste the punishment of burning!" 50

The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. 55

Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 59-60
9: Repentance

Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 3

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 5

Don't let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 17

of a painful doom to Christians and Jews. 34

Those who are tormented in the Fire will have their foreheads and backs branded. 35

If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 39

Disbelievers go to hell. 49

Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 60

Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 63

Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 68

Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 73

Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 74

For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 90

Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 111

Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 113

Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 123
10: Jonah

Disbelievers will have a boiling drink and a painful doom. 4

Those who neglect Allah's revelations will make their home in the Fire. 7-8

Allah has destroyed entire generations. 13

Those who disbelieved will face a dreadful doom. 70

Allah drowned those who disbelieved his revelations. 73

Moses asked Allah to harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they would not believe until they saw the painful doom. 88
11: Hud

Those in the Fire will suffer as long as the heavens and earth endure. 106-7

Allah will fill hell with humans and jinn. 119
13: The Thunder

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire 5

Those who do not answer Allah's call will go to hell. 18

Disbelievers will be tormented in this life, and suffer even more pain in the Hereafter. 33-34

The reward for disbelievers is the Fire. 35
14: Abraham

Woe unto the disbelievers. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2

Those who are in hell will be forced to drink festering water which they can hardly swallow. They will want to die, but they will not be able to. Theirs is a harsh doom. 16-17

Those in hell will be chained together. Their clothing will be made of pitch and fire will cover their faces. 49-50
16: The Bee

Disbelievers are evil and will dwell in hell forever. 27-29

Allah will add doom to doom for those who disbelieve. 88

Those who oppose Islam will face an awful doom. 94
17: The Children of Israel

Allah made hell to be a dungeon for disbelievers. 8

Allah has prepared a painful doom for those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 10

Allah destroyed entire towns. 16

How many generations Allah has destroyed since Noah! 17

Allah intends to burn people in hell. 18

Allah will destroy every town before the Day of Resurrection. 58

Allah will send disbelievers astray. Then he'll burn them in hell, increasing the flames from time to time. 97-98
18: The Cave

Allah has prepared a Fire for the disbelievers. When they want a shower, Allah will give them a shower of molten lead to burn their faces. 29

Those who are condemned to the Fire know they will have no way to escape. 53
There is an appointed time in which the doomed will find no escape. 58

Allah has destroyed many towns. 59

On a certain day, Allah will present hell, in plain view, to the disbelievers. 100

Allah will welcome the disbelievers into hell. 102

Hell is the reward for disbelievers because they made a jest of Allah's revelations and messengers. 106
19: Mary

Allah will pluck out from every sect those who should burn in hell. 69-70

Allah will record what disbelievers say and then prolong their torment. 77-79

Allah has sent the devils on the disbelievers to confuse them. 83

Allah has destroyed many generations. 98
21: The Prophets

Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 6

Disbelievers will not be able to put out the fire on their faces and backs. They will be stupefied and no one will help them. 39-40

Every person alive at the time of the flood was evil. So Allah drowned them all. 77

The disbelievers will stare in terror at what Allah has in store for them. 97-99
22: The Pilgrimage

When the doom of Allah comes, pregnant








I am still waiting for someone to show me where allahs says that the fighting only applies for that specific time in the past. You know my beef is not with muslims it is with the quran, sunnah and hadith and the quran seems insanely obsessed over burning people in eternal flames.

Cute Path....but I didnt say there was nothing wrong with being a disbeliever....thats between them/you and the Creator but you seem to be saying that it's the Muslims job today to shun or kill non-believers. I do indeed believe that the Creator will judge non-believers for their actions. As far as fighting applying to specific times I am reffering to when the surahs were revealed....the fact that 1.5 billion muslims dont behave as monsters seems to show that they know the difference also...This is exactly why the Muslims who behave as OBL does and the people whom you cut and paste your websites from are exactly the same........They read something at face value while taking no time to investigate yet they claim to have knowledge......I would have more respect for both parties if they just said "I dont understand it" and walk away instead of trying to talk about what they dont know. But the Koran tells us how to deal with this also:


"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: 'To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant.' (The Noble Quran, 28:55)"

 

[path]

Cute Path....but I didnt say there was nothing wrong with being a disbeliever....thats between them/you and the Creator but you seem to be saying that it's the Muslims job today to shun or kill non-believers. I do indeed believe that the Creator will judge non-believers for their actions. As far as fighting applying to specific times I am reffering to when the surahs were revealed....the fact that 1.5 billion muslims dont behave as monsters seems to show that they know the difference also...This is exactly why the Muslims who behave as OBL does and the people whom you cut and paste your websites from are exactly the same........They read something at face value while taking no time to investigate yet they claim to have knowledge......I would have more respect for both parties if they just said "I dont understand it" and walk away instead of trying to talk about what they dont know. But the Koran tells us how to deal with this also:


"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: 'To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant.' (The Noble Quran, 28:55)"

Well the quran is full of vitriole against unbelievers and my original point in response to you was simply you cannot blame the unbelievers for railing against the quran when the quran rails against them, it is hypocritical.

Peace love and pudding.

 

[surenderer]

Well the quran is full of vitriole against unbelievers and my original point in response to you was simply you cannot blame the unbelievers for railing against the quran when the quran rails against them, it is hypocritical.

Peace love and pudding.

I dont blame the unbelivers Path...I have never said anything like that ....peace

 

[path]

I dont blame the unbelivers Path...I have never said anything like that ....peace

But you did you got upset because you felt that someone didn't pay islam enough respect and said sarcastically "yeah, it's religion that is the problem " To which my point is, if you don't give respect (not you but islamic doctrine) then you can't expect it back in return. The same can be and is said about christian doctrine (one of the reasons I abandoned religious doctrine)

 

[surenderer]

So you abondon it and do the same thing without the "religious tag"? how are you better now? you say "I left christianity because they talked bad about people" but now as a non-christian you talk bad about people still ....<shrug> I respect your right to not-believe (even though people here seem to think thats inpossible for muslims) but I just dont see any clarity that you have gotten from that right....peace :m:

 

[Leo Volont]

Thanks for telling me how I feel Leo.....you seem to know more about Muslims than I do

You need not find that surprising.

It can be a simplistic assumption that because you ARE Muslim, that you must have a greater knowledge of Islam than any outsider could possibly have. However, you may only be looking at Islam from the Inside. Information may be kept from you that is freely available to those outside of the strict control of your violent Mullahs.

Then there is the matter of Intelligence... of whether presented with the same data, you would be able to reach the same pithy conclusions as I would. In this regard, I can't say I've ever been much impressed by you. In fact, I would suppose that you should have recognized this dullness in yourself, by this point in your life, and would no longer express much surprise when other scholars seem to get the jump on you.

 

[Leo Volont]

So is your ignorance saying that Muslims havent intergrated themselves into Western society?

Look!

See how insulting you are!? Does this not verify the point I am making. I suppose the next step is for you to convoke a meeting among your Mullahs and have a contract put out on my life, or maybe simply blow up a few school buses or day care centers.

My point is not so much that Islam is not activily integrating into Western Society as that it is deliberately antagonizing it. It is one thing to not welcome a neighbor into your own home, and another to attack the neighbors house. Muslims even maintain this same hostility when they arrive as guests into Western Society, for instance, murdering Dutch People for not being exactly like 7th Century Beduin Arabs -- the boneheaded aggression demonstrated by the Muslim Communities in the West is alarming. It goes way beyond the Muslim Community being reluctant to integrate itself, and seems more like a Demand of the Islamic Community that the West integrate itself into adopting all of Islam's beliefs and cultural norms.

Out of an unreflective habit of social tolerance the West allowed a great influx of Muslim Peoples into the lands of their Jurisdiction, only to find that the same habits of tolerance were not even in the least shared by their guests, but who would in fact be killing us for our kindness.

 

[surenderer]

You need not find that surprising.

It can be a simplistic assumption that because you ARE Muslim, that you must have a greater knowledge of Islam than any outsider could possibly have. However, you may only be looking at Islam from the Inside. Information may be kept from you that is freely available to those outside of the strict control of your violent Mullahs.

Then there is the matter of Intelligence... of whether presented with the same data, you would be able to reach the same pithy conclusions as I would. In this regard, I can't say I've ever been much impressed by you. In fact, I would suppose that you should have recognized this dullness in yourself, by this point in your life, and would no longer express much surprise when other scholars seem to get the jump on you.

Ok Leo....my posts are for discussion and occasional debates on topics when necessary not for personal insults....I will leave that to the immature. I can only wonder however what Angels speak to you. Would they approve of your disrespect for others beliefs? I was actually one of the few who had your back when you made these claims You say you havent been impressed by me.....that to is fine because my intention hasnt been to impress "Leo" But seeing how I was born in the West and raised a Christian and have become a convert to Islam I dont think anything has been held from me. Im sure what really upsets you is that a polite mature non-suicidal Muslim is the last thing you probably wanna see because my existance makes that garbage you spew about Muslims wrong.....sorry Leo but as long as Muslims like me are around you may be talking alot but you arent saying anything ......I still wish you peace :m:

 

[surenderer]

Look!

See how insulting you are!? Does this not verify the point I am making. I suppose the next step is for you to convoke a meeting among your Mullahs and have a contract put out on my life, or maybe simply blow up a few school buses or day care centers.

My point is not so much that Islam is not activily integrating into Western Society as that it is deliberately antagonizing it. It is one thing to not welcome a neighbor into your own home, and another to attack the neighbors house. Muslims even maintain this same hostility when they arrive as guests into Western Society, for instance, murdering Dutch People for not being exactly like 7th Century Beduin Arabs -- the boneheaded aggression demonstrated by the Muslim Communities in the West is alarming. It goes way beyond the Muslim Community being reluctant to integrate itself, and seems more like a Demand of the Islamic Community that the West integrate itself into adopting all of Islam's beliefs and cultural norms.

Out of an unreflective habit of social tolerance the West allowed a great influx of Muslim Peoples into the lands of their Jurisdiction, only to find that the same habits of tolerance were not even in the least shared by their guests, but who would in fact be killing us for our kindness.

Ignorance:

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed

Thats what Im saying Leo.....yes The Dutch murder was awful...please tell me how this is a reflection on the whole Muslim community? If what you say is true then post me a link of muslims blowing up Buses in the West.......how about DayCares.....I would venture to say that the West is in fact in Muslims lands causing 100% more havok than vice-versa

 

[path]

So you abondon it and do the same thing without the "religious tag"? how are you better now?

I never said I was better than anyone else (if you claim I did quote me on it) The improvement in my current stand is that I never look at another preson and think "sigh, there goes one of the damned" and I don't rely on anything or anyone to tell me what to believe or think which means I am less likely to be dupped.

you say "I left christianity because they talked bad about people" but now as a non-christian you talk bad about people still ....<shrug>

Surrenderer surrender come on you haven't been paying attention no matter how many times I say it I do not attack muslim or christian people I criticize the texts (again if you think I have talked bad about people show me where) . You are not the quran no matter what you say.

I respect your right to not-believe (even though people here seem to think thats inpossible for muslims) but I just dont see any clarity that you have gotten from that right....peace :m:

Because you are misinterpreting what I say.

 

[okconor]

Ok Leo....my posts are for discussion and occasional debates on topics when necessary not for personal insults....I will leave that to the immature. I can only wonder however what Angels speak to you. Would they approve of your disrespect for others beliefs? I was actually one of the few who had your back when you made these claims You say you havent been impressed by me.....that to is fine because my intention hasnt been to impress "Leo" But seeing how I was born in the West and raised a Christian and have become a convert to Islam I dont think anything has been held from me. Im sure what really upsets you is that a polite mature non-suicidal Muslim is the last thing you probably wanna see because my existance makes that garbage you spew about Muslims wrong.....sorry Leo but as long as Muslims like me are around you may be talking alot but you arent saying anything ......I still wish you peace :m:

Why did you convert?

 

[Brutus1964]

These are the people we are being asked to help. Notice the man wearing the Osama Bin Laden T-Shirt. These were the same people that were dancing in the streets on 9/11. The US is being criticized for not sending more money to people that hate us. These are Muslim countries. Why aren’t Saudi Arabia and other rich Arab nations helping their own Muslim brothers? Because it is the Judeo-Christian way to always come to the aid of people. We even help our enemies.