What is GOD? (I will try to explain to skeptics)

[(Q)]

There is only one God
God has no children, no parents, and no partners
God was not created by a being
There are no equal, superior, or lesser Gods.
God is without form, so:

God is neither male nor female
God can neither be seen nor heard.
God does not resemble anything that he created
God shares few, if any, characteristics with human beings.
God has never been incarnate in any human being.
God can neither be proved of disproved.

Those claims are contradictory to themselves. You cannot know those things if what you claim is true.

You are but a dog chasing his own tail.

 

[spidergoat]

OK, I'm not confused about the concept of God, I just don't believe it. Maybe you assume that if we understood it, we would accept it. I think it's fine if people want to believe in it, but that's not my choice.

 

[Mosheh Thezion]

There is only one God... THIS IS A COMMON BELIEF... based on nothing.

God has no children, no parents, and no partners...also based on nothing... we cannot know either way.

God was not created by a being...also... compleletly unknowable by humans...

There are no equal, superior, or lesser Gods.
another assumption.... we dont really know.


God is without form, so:

God is neither male nor female...how could anyone know this?

God can neither be seen nor heard. this much you have got right.

God does not resemble anything that he created... reasonable,, but not factual in anyway.

God shares few, if any, characteristics with human beings... also... another complete assumption.

God has never been incarnate in any human being....while we have no way knowing... surely A GOD, could do so if desired.

God can neither be proved of disproved.

atlast... you speak some truth...

everything else... was biased...

-MT

 

[(Q)]

I had an Athiest friend, and everyday we used to argue about god and what not, and he would go out and have sex with prostitutes and I would tell him what you're doing is all wrong, and one day he was sick he was really, sick. He had gotten HIV, and he died from it. You should think about that.

Congratulations! You've won the award for the most ridiculous comment today.

Here's something for you to think about - 65% of Africas population is made up of Muslims - 6000 people die every day from aids in Africa.

 

[spidergoat]

LOL
Atheism kills!

 

[GeoffP]

In fact, I heard that the rock that muslim pilgrims walk around was originally a pagan idol, possibly a meteorite.

It was, and it was.

There was actually another one, or the other half of the same one, somewhere in Mesopotamia somewheres.

Geoff

 

[wesmorris]

The things we know about god are the ones he has told us through various scriptures.

Your brain has been washed. Apparently you like it that way, so... as you wish. Trying to rationalize your irrational belief is not working except apparently to you, which is cool, but trying to form an argument that you think should persuade others who are not washed in the same manner is, as you should understand prior to your attempt, pointless.

Because it is written in a book, you presume it "holy"?

I'm not trying to get you not to believe. I simply think it's ridiculous for the faithful to put their ideas up for criticism. It nearly always ends in the faithful doing logic circles around the assumptions they forgot they made and that person ignoring any valid questions posed by those criticizing.

Faith is not to be questioned. To allow us to question yours by offering it for scrutiny, I'd surmise you're being a bad muslim.

Its your choice if you want to believe in it. If you want to believe in flying unicorns then that is your choice. Or if you want to believe their is no god then that is your choice - that loss is not mine or gods its your loss.

What if you believe in the reality that you've implied but deny: God is unknowable and thusly, quite irrelevant... unless of course you prefer the washed perspective that you're in on something that these atheists just don't get. Obvoiusly, you'll believe whatever the hell you want. Are you really interested in discussing this and being honest? I don't see how you can be given the subject matter, your analysis and that you basically say "can't prove or disprove" in the same breath that you say "this is what god is". Seems rather contradictory. Of course I'm presuming you believe in god. Is that correct?

Why is "believing there is no god" a loss?

what if you're wrong and I am right and there is a god, and when you die you find out then your going to be buggerd.

How is that relevant? How can you make any assertions or guesses to what death might offer besides nothing? I'll guess I suppose, but attempting assertions in that regard is basically argument from ego.

Say there are 3 cups and one of them cups has a check of 10 billion, and I here mate take a free guess if you get it you win 10billion, if you think I am lying you still lose nothing, but if I am telling the truth and then you have something to gain. It all might seem daft right now, but this is what happans when pepole are on thier death beds that is when they think of god, that is when all the fear hits you. I had an Athiest friend, and everyday we used to argue about god and what not, and he would go out and have sex with prostitutes and I would tell him what you're doing is all wrong, and one day he was sick he was really, sick. He had gotten HIV, and he died from it. You should think about that.

You seem to be fairly bright, yet you are basically spewing a mix of analysis and authoritarian dogma. You should think about that, silly.

What I am saying is look at things for a logical point of view.

LOL.

Have you considered that logic is infinitely recursive? For conclusions to be reached from logical analysis, assumptions must be made. You have made the assumption of god and now have apparently forgotten you assumed it because it's so obviously true. You are working from an assumption of faith which is IMO, entirely ridiculous... but if it works from your perspective, more power to you except until you become an authoritative jerk, at which point you basically suck (not saying that's the case, just a general opinion of the scenario).

 

[Muslim]

Wow, wow. Lets just forget everything and start the the beginning? everyone agrees that the universe was created from the "big bang" right? (am not an astrophysics) so get this I am supposed to belief that the universe formed out of nothing? and everything just nicely lined up in prefect order? Look at the position of the earth, its in the right spot, not too far from the sun and not too close.

Can you guys prove there was nothing before the universe? or can you prove there was something before the universe.

If you can believe the universe was formed out of a big bang and believe everything all aliened up you think that is logical thinking?

If I got a few thoudens bricks some cement, sand and wood, and blow them up on the street would they just randomly build a house for me?

And if I said it would I would be labeled insane. This is the thinking of a person who doesn't believe in a god. INSANE!

All I am saying is religion is a good thing even if there is a god or not. There might very well not be a god. However for me I do believe their is a god, he is always watching us. I don't have proof to prove there is a god I am not going to lie, but I can say there are something science can't explain and perhaps there is a god, until science can categorically prove there is no god, then there still is a possibility there is a god. Atheist and many scientists just naturally assuming anyone who believes in a god is somehow stupid. God might even be science we might make a discover that might make someone live for eternity never die and be all powerful. 2000 years ago could people image humans would be on the moon?

I really don't get why people so stubborn, a Christian friend of mine said that "atheists are just really homosexuals and lesbians who want to mess around with little kids, so they deny the existence of god so then they can morally detected them selfs from immorality. You will never see a practicing Christian indulged in such immoral activities."

 

[duendy]

Muslim---you assume pnly homosexual or lesbian athiests mess around with kids. both ins;iting and totally ignorant likethe rest of your musings......and you go worse and sayt christians never do it. where you been. you dont knowofthe massive child abuse expose of catholic church, andof supposed chrsitan chi;drens homes. ane when ws the last time you HEARDof any lesbian messing with kids......annnnd. a majority of child abuse cases comes from members of teir wown families, dads, uncles etc. so get yer facts straight before you spread malicious rumours
and by the way, you should look at the writings of some of your own 'aith' where it encourages child abuse...!!

reegarding your main contention. it is absurd. you try and find reason for te order of the universe, and imagine there must be a all-watchin 'God' behind it. ....
why?

the othe side--many of te athiests imagine it just has happened by chance

i am lookin at both sides like someone who watches tennis---yu know likewhen head goes from right toleft to right to left..

now i look at you direct and say: matter-energy is always with consciousness and is natrually creative. there is no NEED for some fundamentalist aloof CCTV God in the sky...

 

[Muslim]

Muslim---you assume pnly homosexual or lesbian athiests mess around with kids. both ins;iting and totally ignorant likethe rest of your musings......and you go worse and sayt christians never do it. where you been. you dont knowofthe massive child abuse expose of catholic church, andof supposed chrsitan chi;drens homes. ane when ws the last time you HEARDof any lesbian messing with kids......annnnd. a majority of child abuse cases comes from members of teir wown families, dads, uncles etc. so get yer facts straight before you spread malicious rumours
and by the way, you should look at the writings of some of your own 'aith' where it encourages child abuse...!!

reegarding your main contention. it is absurd. you try and find reason for te order of the universe, and imagine there must be a all-watchin 'God' behind it. ....
why?

the othe side--many of te athiests imagine it just has happened by chance

i am lookin at both sides like someone who watches tennis---yu know likewhen head goes from right toleft to right to left..

now i look at you direct and say: matter-energy is always with consciousness and is natrually creative. there is no NEED for some fundamentalist aloof CCTV God in the sky...

I didn't say that. I was quoting a Christian friend. I thought it was a significant bit of infromation to mention.

I know about the child abuse issues, however this was before that.

and by the way, you should look at the writings of some of your own 'aith' where it encourages child abuse...!!

I want you to prove this claim.

 

[duendy]

I didn't say that. I was quoting a Christian friend. I thought it was a significant bit of infromation to mention.

I know about the child abuse issues, however this was before that.


I want you to prove this claim.

well very first, patriarchy isbe definITION child abuse! children are 'property' of the father.....and from that , all forms of abuse can arise, not just sexual, but for example sacrificing children for their wars etc. i have just come from a thread where you confess you love war and tink it "cool", right? not surprising given your patriarchal indoctrination

The Java Report: Child Molestation It's not just for Catholics...
http://www.mypetjawa.mu/nu/archives/058673.php
http://www.mypetjawa.mu/nu/archives/053937.php

 

[Muslim]

well very first, patriarchy isbe definITION child abuse! children are 'property' of the father.....and from that , all forms of abuse can arise, not just sexual, but for example sacrificing children for their wars etc. i have just come from a thread where you confess you love war and tink it "cool", right? not surprising given your patriarchal indoctrination

The Java Report: Child Molestation It's not just for Catholics...
http://www.mypetjawa.mu/nu/archives/058673.php
http://www.mypetjawa.mu/nu/archives/053937.php

The links don't work.

 

[duendy]

The links don't work.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/058673.php
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/053937.php

 

[Muslim]

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/058673.php
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/053937.php

No, no. You said:

and by the way, you should look at the writings of some of your own 'aith' where it encourages child abuse...!!

And Shi'ttes are just weird. But still I don't see any writing of my "faith" that encourage child abuse.

You have just posted news articles, there that allege there was some abuse going on. Also let me tell you don't believe everything you read (I am not denying child abuse may have happened) some people have openly admitted in Pakistan to faking some gang-rapes so they could get a better life in the west. Some of the human-rights organizations, use them to further their own agenda they are not interested in the suffering of a person.

 

[Huwy]

What about mohammed's wife "Aisha"???
She was 6 when he married her, and 9 when he had sex with her for the first time.
9 years old.

Do you want me to find you the verse out of the Quran?

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

 

[Huwy]

And what about those two boys who were HUNG TO DEATH in Iran, for being homosexual?
Many countries still use "stoning" as a punishment.

 

[Sarkus]

Wow, wow. Lets just forget everything and start the the beginning?

Okay.

everyone agrees that the universe was created from the "big bang" right? (am not an astrophysics)

No - Big Bang is just one of many theories - and from what I understand has been rejected in favour of other theories.

so get this I am supposed to belief that the universe formed out of nothing?

No - this has never been stated and never been proven. Noone should "believe" anything without evidence.
There is no evidence for what the origin of the Universe is / was - so noone should ever "believe" one theory over another.

...and everything just nicely lined up in prefect order? Look at the position of the earth, its in the right spot, not too far from the sun and not too close.

Oh - classic religionist speil.
So egotistical to believe the Universe was created for us.

Right - God created man, and then created a planet for him to sit on? Is that how it went?

Is it not far more likely, even to you, that life happened to develop through natural means on this planet, and developing naturally meant that the long-lived life-forms were ideally suited to the environment?

It's a matter of cause and effect.

Can you guys prove there was nothing before the universe? or can you prove there was something before the universe.

Nope.
Can you?

What is wrong with saying "I don't know" ?
Why create a God to fill in the gaps?

If you can believe the universe was formed out of a big bang and believe everything all aliened up you think that is logical thinking?

All aliened up? Sorry - I've lost you.

If I got a few thoudens bricks some cement, sand and wood, and blow them up on the street would they just randomly build a house for me?

Flawed analogy.
If you took 10^76 particles, predominantly hydrogen, but also some other elements, added them together in a vast pressure pot, and then spewed them out with nothing but a few laws to guide them (physics, chemistry etc) - and then give them a few billion years to develop - what do you think they would create??

And if I said it would I would be labeled insane. This is the thinking of a person who doesn't believe in a god. INSANE!

No - it is the thinking of someone not paricularly clued up in either the scientific method, in scientific principles and logical fallacies.

All I am saying is religion is a good thing even if there is a god or not.

This is the first time you have mentioned this point.
And to be honest, religion certainly offers some people something quite good - a guide for their life.
But there are those that think religion is nothing but harmful.
The argument of whether "religion is good or bad" is a VERY different argument to "does God exist".

There might very well not be a god.

A sudden change in yout tune?

However for me I do believe their is a god, he is always watching us. I don't have proof to prove there is a god, I am not going to lie, but I can say there are something science can't explain and perhaps there is a god....

So you believe in God without evidence, purely because science can't explain everything?

...until science can categorically prove there is no god, then there still is a possibility there is a god.

This is not disputed by most atheists on this forum.
God is indeed a probability - just infinitessimally small, unless you define God as "everything that is unknowable" - (in which case God is just a useless concept).

The point is - WHY BELIEVE in the existence of something for which there is no evidence.

Atheist and many scientists just naturally assuming anyone who believes in a god is somehow stupid.

Belief without evidence is a sign of irrational behaviour, which some would equate to stupidity.

God might even be science we might make a discover that might make someone live for eternity never die and be all powerful.

I really don't get why people so stubborn...

The stubborn ones are those who continue to believe in the absence of any evidence.

...a Christian friend of mine said that "atheists are just really homosexuals and lesbians who want to mess around with little kids, so they deny the existence of god so then they can morally detected them selfs from immorality. You will never see a practicing Christian indulged in such immoral activities."

Ah - you mean like numerous Catholic priests in the UK and US?

Muslim - what you are spouting has been heard numerous times on this forum before - and with the same response.

There is no evidence for the existence of God.
Instead of choosing to say "God did it" to all the unanswered questions - why not try and do some science.
We may never find the answer - and for some things there are no answers - but this DOES NOT MEAN that "God did it"!!

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Wow, wow. Lets just forget everything and start the the beginning? everyone agrees that the universe was created from the "big bang" right?

Nope. The 'Big Bang' theory is one of several variants of theory that presently exist. It has the most supportive evidence and thusly tends to be the most popular.

(am not an astrophysics) so get this I am supposed to belief that the universe formed out of nothing? and everything just nicely lined up in prefect order? Look at the position of the earth, its in the right spot, not too far from the sun and not too close.

There is no evidence to suggest that the concept of 'nothing' even exists. The notion of things lining up in 'perfect order' is simply a relativistic interpretation. We have an environment on earth where matter can adapt and this is a result of the laws of physics... not 'perfect' placement.

Can you guys prove there was nothing before the universe? or can you prove there was something before the universe.

Nope. I could state however that there is no evidence to suggest that 'nothing' exists.

If you can believe the universe was formed out of a big bang and believe everything all aliened up you think that is logical thinking?

Was 'lined up' meant instead of 'aliened up'? If so, there are two flaws with the question. The first is the use of the word 'believe'. The moment it is used, we're getting into that acceptance w/o evidence trap. The second is the notion that everything is 'all lined up'. Evidence shows natural processes in reality at work over time and nothing else.

If I got a few thoudens bricks some cement, sand and wood, and blow them up on the street would they just randomly build a house for me?

Nope... and if this is being compared to life on earth then the comparison is flawed. Blowing up housing components is quite different than physics processes governing matter / energy behavior over time.

And if I said it would I would be labeled insane. This is the thinking of a person who doesn't believe in a god. INSANE!

Take away the 'God' component of that statement and it is saying that people are insane if they refuse to accept assertions as truth without supportive / contradictory evidence. Reality supports / validates evidence-based thinking and quite often contradicts 'belief'-based thinking.

All I am saying is religion is a good thing even if there is a god or not. There might very well not be a god.

A person can have a deep relationship with their ego without religion and they can have deep social relations with other people based on reality and not fantasy. I suspect that by doing this the 'benefits' of religion can be sustained while the problems of religion (crusades, Jihad, intolerance, etc.) can be done away with.

However for me I do believe their is a god, he is always watching us. I don't have proof to prove there is a god I am not going to lie, but I can say there are something science can't explain and perhaps there is a god, until science can categorically prove there is no god, then there still is a possibility there is a god.

This is another branch of flawed thinking. To substitute "I don't know" situations with "God did it" only hinders efforts to discover the truth.

Atheist and many scientists just naturally assuming anyone who believes in a god is somehow stupid. God might even be science we might make a discover that might make someone live for eternity never die and be all powerful. 2000 years ago could people image humans would be on the moon?

It's not 'belief' in 'God' thats the problem. It's 'belief' itself (religious belief specifically). Acceptance of assertions as truth without supportive / contradictory evidence is a flawed way of thinking and people whom choose this process to understand reality are far less likely to discover truth. It's not the people that are considered 'stupid'... it's the thought process (i.e. 'belief') that they have willingly chosen.

I really don't get why people so stubborn, a Christian friend of mine said that "atheists are just really homosexuals and lesbians who want to mess around with little kids, so they deny the existence of god so then they can morally detected them selfs from immorality. You will never see a practicing Christian indulged in such immoral activities."

How does the stubborn statement correlate with what your Christian friend said? Additionally it sounds like your friend is practicing 'belief' as there is a plethora of contradictory evidence to both of the assertions made.

 

[Muslim]

What about mohammed's wife "Aisha"???
She was 6 when he married her, and 9 when he had sex with her for the first time.
9 years old.

Do you want me to find you the verse out of the Quran?

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

That comes from the hadeeth. Not the Qu'ran. However this is a common misconception Aisha was not actually 9 she was 16 - 18 when the marriage was consummated. Evidence that Aisha was much older comes from many sources, which thus reinforce each other. But all hadith supporting an early age at marriage and consummation can be traced to Urwa (also known as Abu Hisham) and date back to the period after he migrated to Iraq at the age of 71. There are no such hadith collected while he still resided in Medina. Ibn Abbas and others (see Tazeeb al Tazeeb) consider Urwa's hadith from Iraq to be weak; his memory is presumed to have weakened as he aged.

 

[spidergoat]

Look at the position of the earth, its in the right spot, not too far from the sun and not too close.

But Mars isn't.

Every being that attained enough awareness would find itself in a seemingly miraculous situation, I believe it's called anthropic bias. If conditions were less than perfect, there would be no one to observe it.