What if Eve had not eaten the apple?

Cris

Cris

In search of Immortality
Valued Senior Member
What if A & E had not eaten the forbidden fruit and had stayed in the Garden of Eden, how would the world have developed?

The garden appears to have been a "friendly" jungle where animals can be slaughtered easily for food and fruit was in abundance. What else were people meant to do? Sex I guess would have been the primary pastime since there was no TV, radio, internet, cars, sports, etc. I didn't see any references to buildings, sewerage systems, phone systems, etc., either.

Wouldn't a garden paradise without modern facilities have become rather boring and inconvenient after a short while? And since we wouldn't die and would have lots of sex then what was God's plan for solving inevitable overpopulation?

Just what had God planned for us in the event we hadn't disobeyed him?
 
Adam and Eve's disobedience was meant to happen. It was part of God's plan. Without eating the fruit, they would have been unable to procreate and would have remained in the Garden of Eden, unfulfilled and alone.
 
Sex is part of originical sin. Before they ate the apple, Adam and Eve were like children. They had no use for their sexual organs. In fact, if Adam and Eve hadn't disobeyed, none of us would exist. There'd still only be two people.

Of course, God meant for them to disobey and procreate so God would have generations of little sentient lives to fuck with.
 
How the hell anything in gods supposed divine plan can possibly be a sin is beyond me.
 
Marlin,

Adam and Eve's disobedience was meant to happen. It was part of God's plan.
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So they were setup for the fall. In effect they had no choice. So much for the Christian concept of freewill - clearly it does not exist.
 
Cris said:
Marlin,

So they were setup for the fall. In effect they had no choice. So much for the Christian concept of freewill - clearly it does not exist.
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They had a choice. They could have remained in the garden forever, but they both had a rudimentary understanding that eating the fruit was supposed to happen. Please see the web page I referred to above for more info about the Fall.
 
Roman,

Sex is part of originical sin.
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No, the original sin was eating the fruit. God intended A & E to have lots of sex -

Genesis 1:28 - And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:
 
Marlin,

They had a choice.
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No they didn't if God had planned for them to disobey. If they had not disobeoyed then God's plan would have been foiled, and for a perfect God that can't happen. Hence they had no freewill.
 
Cris said:
Marlin,

No they didn't if God had planned for them to disobey. If they had not disobeoyed then God's plan would have been foiled, and for a perfect God that can't happen. Hence they had no freewill.
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Yes, but God, knowing all things including future events, could foresee that they would disobey and made the conditions such that they would. Our free agency is always operative, even when our future actions are known by God. If He didn't know all things, He wouldn't be God.
 
Marlin,

They had a choice. They could have remained in the garden forever..
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And so back to my thread - if they had so chosen, which you claim is possible then what was God's plan for them and how would he deal with overpopulation?
 
Marlin,

Yes, but God, knowing all things including future events, could foresee that they would disobey and made the conditions such that they would.
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So he designed them to disobey then. Why didn’t he design humans so they wouldn’t disobey?
 
Cris, God's plan was for them to transgress His command, become mortal, and procreate. The transgression brought about changes in their body and in the world in general. We, as children of Adam and Eve, became subject to death, sorrow, pain, and Satan's temptations. The Plan was to let mankind experience mortality and yet be saved by repentance and obedience to Christ's gospel. Adam's transgression made Christ's Atonement necessary.

Please see the website I referred to above for more info.
 
Marlin,

Here is All You Ever Wanted to Know About the Fall of Adam But Were Afraid to Ask
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Thanks - Interesting read. It directly conflicts with Genesis from the outset - i.e. Genesis 1:28 - ... be fruitful and multiply. The basis of the Mormon idea is that A&E would not have had children had they not disobeyed and consequently we would not be here.

How do you explain this major Mormon contradiction with the OT - the word of God?
 
Cris said:
Marlin,

Thanks - Interesting read. It directly conflicts with Genesis from the outset - i.e. Genesis 1:28 - ... be fruitful and multiply. The basis of the Mormon idea is that A&E would not have had children had they not disobeyed and consequently we would not be here.

How do you explain this major Mormon contradiction with the OT - the word of God?
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Well, that was waaaayyy too quick for you to have read all of the sub-pages of that web page. But anyway, God gave Adam and Eve two conflicting commands: to multiply, and to avoid eating of the fruit. I think (and I may be mistaken) that they knew they couldn't do both. There is no contradiction, just two commands from God that couldn't both be obeyed.
 
Marlin,

Please see the website I referred to above for more info.
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Done so. It has some major logical flaws.

Adam's transgression made Christ's Atonement necessary.
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Agreed, without the A&E story being literal then Christianity would have no basis.

The Plan was to let mankind experience mortality and yet be saved by repentance and obedience to Christ's gospel.
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That’s basically an attempt to rationalize (make something inherently irrational appear rational) the inconsistencies in the myth of A&E with the myth of Jesus.

The major question becomes why should an omnipotent being capable of anything create such a circuitous route? Why not simply make humans so that they understand the issues correctly so they would never wish or need to disobey? That would save all the death, mortality, sin, repentance issues, and the farcical fraudulent sacrifice of his son.
 
Cris said:
The major question becomes why should an omnipotent being capable of anything create such a circuitous route? Why not simply make humans so that they understand the issues correctly so they would never wish or need to disobey? That would save all the death, mortality, sin, repentance issues, and the farcical fraudulent sacrifice of his son.
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The answer to that lies in the fact that the basic uncreated part of us, our most primal existence, was not created by God, but rather is co-eternal with Him. It is called our intelligence in Mormon terminology. God didn't create all of the intelligences, but rather, clothed them with spirit bodies and, later, with flesh.

The reason God works the way He does is, there is no other way to do it. He couldn't create us perfect because our basic being, our intelligences, have tendencies and personalities independent of God's creation. Mortality is a probation, wherein we must prove ourselves to God, whether we will obey Him or not. If we obey Him, His grace combined with our experiences and repentance is sufficient to save us and perfect us.

Think about it, though: if you have children, you know that they take things for granted a lot. The spoiled rich kid assumes that money is always going to be there. The pampered prince who has everything just given to him on a silver platter does not understand the meaning of being poor or destitute. Similarly, if God just created us perfect, we wouldn't appreciate it. The experiences of mortality could not be gotten any other way than the way they are, and mortality becomes a proving ground. After we leave mortality and receive our final judgment, we will (if we have obeyed God) become perfect.

And boy, will we appreciate it!
 
Marlin,

...God gave Adam and Eve two conflicting commands: to multiply, and to avoid eating of the fruit. I think (and I may be mistaken) that they knew they couldn't do both. There is no contradiction, just two commands from God that couldn't both be obeyed.
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There is no biblical support for this assertion. Read Genesis. Procreation and not eating the fruit are distinctly seperate issues.
 
Cris I agree with you that God should have made us all aware of sin without creating Sin. If God installed in me the knowledge that Sin was bad and spared me the experiance of it I would be greatful.

On the other hand if God made the world and millions of people suffer and die over thousands of years, just to prove a point, I would look closer for the horns.
 
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