What do you believe?

F

falcon22

Registered Senior Member
I was born as a Christian Assembly of God (branch off of Pantecoastal) pastor's son, learned Presbyterian teachings in Jr. High, attended Baptist Church in high school, attended Catholic mass during high school years also, taught myself Buddhism and Islam through series of books, and took lectures and seminars on evolution and the faults of evolution.

But I believe in none of these things I've been taught.

I believe that God must exist, especially if evolution is true but I think that either God is powerless (what he created the world but can't fix its state?) or he/she/they/it is a sadist (because he created lust, moral standards, difference races and then implemente racist thoughts in us, beautiful and ugly people then implementing beauty standards in us, genetic deformities, hurricanes, cancer, AIDS, acid rain, emotional disorders, resources able to be made into weapons, etc.)

But I'm curious. What do you guys believe in? Are you Christian, evolutionist, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Wiccan, Satanist, agnostic, athiest but not a believer in evolution, creationist, have your own unique set of beliefs now known yet to the world? What is your religion?

If you're not afraid to come out of the closet on that, this is the thread for that.
 
falcon22 said:
I was born as a Christian Assembly of God (branch off of Pantecoastal) pastor's son, learned Presbyterian teachings in Jr. High, attended Baptist Church in high school, attended Catholic mass during high school years also, taught myself Buddhism and Islam through series of books, and took lectures and seminars on evolution and the faults of evolution.

But I believe in none of these things I've been taught.

I believe that God must exist, especially if evolution is true but I think that either God is powerless (what he created the world but can't fix its state?) or he/she/they/it is a sadist (because he created lust, moral standards, difference races and then implemente racist thoughts in us, beautiful and ugly people then implementing beauty standards in us, genetic deformities, hurricanes, cancer, AIDS, acid rain, emotional disorders, resources able to be made into weapons, etc.)

But I'm curious. What do you guys believe in? Are you Christian, evolutionist, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Wiccan, Satanist, agnostic, athiest but not a believer in evolution, creationist, have your own unique set of beliefs now known yet to the world? What is your religion?

If you're not afraid to come out of the closet on that, this is the thread for that.
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I believe in me.:p

until some god comes down and PROVES to me that hes god they all remain as fictious as a Santaclaus.

evolution is a fact how it happens is a theory,
here learn something worthwile instead of that religious fantasy
www.talkorigins.org
 
falcon,

welcome to sciforums.

The majority here are atheists or non-believers and few have any concerns about coming out of any closets.

Some corrections for you on evolution, that you don't appear to have studied very well. Evolution is fact, it has occurred and is occurring, this is not a matter personal choice. Evolutionary theories, however, are attempts to explain the processes of evolution and while some of these are well established others are still being developed.

As for the existence of a god being necessary - can you you show any single instance where a god is needed where a more credible natural cause would not be possible?
 
Actually one of the reasons I am reluctant to come forward with my specific religious upbringing is because I am more interested in discussing philosophy - seems here people are more interested in judging the politics of religious institutions - classic example is samckdey - over 95% of what she can tell us about islam is wasted by discussions of terrorism etc
 
I am strong believer in evolution actually. But... think about it, who started the process? Who actually created space to start the evolutionary process to begin in the first place? Who allowed big bang to happen? Evolution also explains how powerless God is, how he can't create things out right, but can only slowly form stuff out of failures and experimentation.

But honestly... I really really wish God just didn't exist at all, that in the beginning, just something existed and randomly started a series of chains that kept on occuring and occuring and failing and adapting to end up with one planet in countless number of galaxies with life and with patterns, although life and pattern here is imperfect to say the least.
 
Although... maybe God doesn't have to exist...
Have you heard, in 2001, some scientist created a virus?? Virus is life!!! Man actually created life!!!
 
falcon22 said:
I am strong believer in evolution...
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I might suggest reconsidering what you know about evolution. If the evidence says its true then you should know its true... not believe.

falcon22 said:
But... think about it, who started the process? Who actually created space to start the evolutionary process to begin in the first place? Who allowed big bang to happen?
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A better question might be does a 'who' need to exist for the things listed above to exist? Another question might be, does the concept of 'start' even apply?


falcon22 said:
But honestly... I really really wish God just didn't exist at all, that in the beginning, just something existed and randomly started a series of chains that kept on occuring and occuring and failing and adapting to end up with one planet in countless number of galaxies with life and with patterns, although life and pattern here is imperfect to say the least.
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There isn't necessarily a 'beginning' and the concept of 'random' doesn't seem to objectively exist. If you are convinced that 'God' exists however, it might be a good exercise to list out all the supportive evidence that shows an instance of such a life form really exists.
 
Light,

Actually microevolution is a fact - macro evolution is hypotheisis in light of evidence
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Largely irrelevant here - Both are attempts to explain the fact of evolution. No serious biologist doubts evolution has occurred they are just not entirely sure how.
 
Cris said:
Light,

Largely irrelevant here - Both are attempts to explain the fact of evolution. No serious biologist doubts evolution has occurred they are just not entirely sure how.
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How can a person can accept something as fact when there is no direct perception - even in all branches of theism, which may for the majority of people operate out of the principle of being true in principle, has at least some connection with saintly persons who operate out of the principle of direct perception
 
Crunchy Cat said:
I might suggest reconsidering what you know about evolution. If the evidence says its true then you should know its true... not believe.
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Dude, nothing's knowable. But I guess if you say it that way, Yeah, I know evolution is true. But you can't deny that God could possibly have been involved with it.

And what's the deal with this, there might not have been a beginning? No beginning? Everything has a beginning. What makes the universe an exception?
 
falcon22 said:
Dude, nothing's knowable.
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I know you typed that message on a keyboard.

falcon22 said:
But I guess if you say it that way, Yeah, I know evolution is true. But you can't deny that God could possibly have been involved with it.
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I can discard that 'possibility' because there would have to be evidence for 'God's existence in the first place. The claim of 'God' existing has been around for thousands (tens of thousands?) of years and not one speck of supportive evidence exist for any particular claim. Meanwhile knowledge about reality is increasing and is contradicting every assertion of 'God' there is. Basically n-thousand years of claims, zero supprotive evidence, and plenty of contradictive evidence is (as a whole) evidence that any particular religion's claim of 'God' does not exist. Do I know that there isn't some super-life form out there somewhere? Nope... and there is no evidence suggesting one exists either.

falcon22 said:
And what's the deal with this, there might not have been a beginning? No beginning? Everything has a beginning. What makes the universe an exception?
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We've seen evidence that the universe was a result of an inflation event 14+ billion years ago and our understanding of the universe suggests that it could maximally deflate at some point... and then inflate again. This inflation / deflation process might be something that goes on indefinately (no actual beginning or end). That is a variant of an inflationary theory.

There are other theories that suggest that our universe is just a moment of change in a neverending mathematical execution (sorry forgot that particular theory name... my bad) or that our universe might be a renewal of a different universe that reached a certain threshold of entropy (steady state theory) and our universe would do the same... and it's universe would do the same... and so on (i.e. no real beginning or end). There are lots of other theories out there as well which remove the concept of beginning and end.

I'll leave you with a somewhat related thought. Does 'nothing' exist? I mean really, can you think of one instance of 'nothing'? If 'nothing' really doesn't exist then that would imply 'something' has always existed; hence, an absence of 'beginning' and 'end'.
 
Light,

How can a person can accept something as fact when there is no direct perception - even in all branches of theism, which may for the majority of people operate out of the principle of being true in principle, has at least some connection with saintly persons who operate out of the principle of direct perception
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Take a room with a box in one corner. You leave the room and come back later. The box is still there but now in a differrent corner. What happened (many theories are possible). But you didn't see it get moved but you know it was moved somehow.

Same with biological evolution. It is like looking at a map and following the roads but in places the map has gaps but you can see the road continuing on the other side of the gap.

It takes very little intelligence to see what has occurred - i.e. there is no reasonable doubt. Like a child joining the dots in a picture puzzle so they can see the final shape.

Just follow the dots - evolution is so damn obvious it really isn't worth debating.
 
Cris said:
Light,

Take a room with a box in one corner. You leave the room and come back later. The box is still there but now in a differrent corner. What happened (many theories are possible). But you didn't see it get moved but you know it was moved somehow.

Same with biological evolution. It is like looking at a map and following the roads but in places the map has gaps but you can see the road continuing on the other side of the gap.

It takes very little intelligence to see what has occurred - i.e. there is no reasonable doubt. Like a child joining the dots in a picture puzzle so they can see the final shape.

Just follow the dots - evolution is so damn obvious it really isn't worth debating.
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precisely what is debated is that there is movement at all - for instance in the case with the road maps or join the dots - these things function by sequencing - but if you apply sequencing to a situation that doesn't innvolve sequencing you just have dots.

This is why the sequencing of evolution is only a theory
 
Light,

You mean like the sequence ......2 3 4 5 6 7 8......

Not sure if you can do this but what is your theory about a value that comes before the start and one after the end?

Of course there are no facts to say your theory might be true of course, right?
 
Cris said:
Light,

You mean like the sequence ......2 3 4 5 6 7 8......

Not sure if you can do this but what is your theory about a value at comes at the start and one at the end?

Of coure there are no facts to say your theory might be true of course, right?
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But numbers are a sequence - like for instance whats the difference between an arrangement of dots with numbers and just an arrangement of dots in terms of join the dot exercises??

In other words evolution can only be extrapolilated from the fossil record when you ascribe a sequence to the evidence - since the sequencing is highly speculative (in terms of macroevolution) and there is no empirical evidence of the sequencing in the first place it remains a theory
 
Slime through human - yup very subjective - umm, what order will I place them?

See the bigger picture Light and stop quibbling about minutia.
 
Cris said:
Slime through human - yup very subjective - umm, what order will I place them?

See the bigger picture Light and stop quibbling about minutia.
Click to expand...

The point is that they may exist independantly and be completely bereft of any need for sequencing, just like an array of dots with out numbers is not meant to illustrate any picture in terms of join the dots - in the absence of empirical evidence evolution could all be in your head
 
Light,

I think you must be wearing blinkers. The evidence of the sequence is overwhelming as Darwin realized as he made his discoveries. It is as obvious as the number sequence I gave you. And it makes no sense to attempt to deny it.

Humans are the result of evolutionary processes as is all life on this planet.
 
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