What determines nose structure?

Sub saharan africans seem to have very open broad and short nostrils, probably to get as much air in as fast as possible for long distance running in the heat. I wonder why meditaranean and middle eastern people have big long noses? I think there must be a reason other than sexual selection, because with all due respect to people with mass honkers, no one really prefers them.
I suppose it could be to filter sand out of the desert winds, meditaraneans descending from the desert dwelling middle easterners.
 
Sub saharan africans seem to have very open broad and short nostrils, probably to get as much air in as fast as possible for long distance running in the heat.
Correct. Broad noses dissipate heat better.

I wonder why meditaranean and middle eastern people have big long noses? I think there must be a reason other than sexual selection, because with all due respect to people with mass honkers, no one really prefers them. I suppose it could be to filter sand out of the desert winds, meditaraneans descending from the desert dwelling middle easterners.
To moisten the dry air better.
 
Do noses moisten air? How?
They only seem to get dry themselves in dry air, and it seems the bigger they are the more there is to get uncomfortably dry.

Why do I have a funny rounded english farmer nose? What about rural england demands such a nose, or did this nose arise in pagans? It seems quite good at sniffing if that is a clue, I also find it useful for looking down at others with no point in the way.
 
Do noses moisten air? How?
They only seem to get dry themselves in dry air, and it seems the bigger they are the more there is to get uncomfortably dry.
Huh ? The reason they get dry is because the lose moisture to the dry air..
This is a well known function of all noses by the way. Bigger noses are just more efficient at it.

Why do I have a funny rounded english farmer nose? What about rural england demands such a nose, or did this nose arise in pagans? It seems quite good at sniffing if that is a clue, I also find it useful for looking down at others with no point in the way.
A lot of Western Europe's people are mixtures. Britain's people, for example, incorporate Nordic as well as Roman influences. On top of that there is variety in every population and the comfort of warm cozy houses the last couple of centuries might have had some impact although that would be minor. Britain has a mostly moist but relatively cold climate, but then again so did the countries where it's original inhabitants came from probably.
I guess you can only say a thing or two about relatively "pure" populations, such as Africans and Nordic people. Europe and North America are just too mixed up.
 
They may be mixed up but a distinct type has clearly arose in rural england (and in many places), and something has shaped it. All the dog breeds are mixed up too, but still you can say this dog has long drooping ears for this or that reason. Even dog types, which aren't breeds, that arose recently for a purpose will lean towards distinct similar phenotypical characteristics. For example in australia we have "pig dogs" which are mongrels used for hunting wild boar, even though all and any breed can be in the foundations for the pig dog strains, in the blackberry country of central new south wales (for example) where there is lots of thorny brush the pig dogs will tend to have small beady eyes, and obviously it's to minimise the chances of getting them injured on thorns. You can have greyhound x bullterriers and mastiff x wolfhounds from central nsw and they'll both share beady eyes, and then in western queensland where there are open plains there might be a different greyhound x bullterrier and a different mastiff x wolfhound and neither will have beady eyes.
There are countless similar little cases all across the country, and all across the world of dogs. It doesn't take long for strains to homogenise somewhat in accordance with environmental pressures.
Humans are no different. Even modern strains like "midwestern americans" or haitians have distinct phenotypical tendencies. The fact their foundations stem from mixed ethnicities is neither here nor there. It's not like "they're randomly whatever because they aren't pure", they aren't whatever, they're something in particular. Who can't differentiate between an english farmer and a dutch hang-gliding enthusiast? I can, and it's because they're from seperate breeding populations, not through the eternity of history, but long enough for distinct types to deviate from one another.
 
Last edited:
They may be mixed up but a distinct type has clearly arose in rural england (and in many places), and something has shaped it. All the dog breeds are mixed up too, but still you can say this dog has long drooping ears for this or that reason. Even dog types, which aren't breeds, that arose recently for a purpose will lean towards distinct similar phenotypical characteristics. For example in australia we have "pig dogs" which are mongrels used for hunting wild boar, even though all and any breed can be in the foundations for the pig dog strains, in the blackberry country of central new south wales (for example) where there is lots of thorny brush the pig dogs will tend to have small beady eyes, and obviously it's to minimise the chances of getting them injured on thorns. There are countless similar little cases all across the country, and all across the world of dogs.
Humans are no different. Even modern strains like "midwestern americans" or haitians have distinct phenotypical tendencies. The fact their foundations stem from mixed ethnicities is neither here nor there. It's not like "they're randomly whatever because they aren't pure", they aren't whatever, they're something in particular. Who can't differentiate between an english farmer and a dutch hang-gliding enthusiast? I can, and it's because they're from seperate breeding populations, not through the eternity of history, but long enough for distinct types to deviate from one another.

Like I said there is a lot of sexual selection involved. Besides, different mixes..
 
I just think the explanation should be more complicated and nuanced. Saying sexual selection is like saying natural selection, there are cultural pressures that drive each sexual selection.
Sexual selection always works in concert with natural/environmental selection anyway, I'm interested in understanding the details.
 
I just think the explanation should be more complicated and nuanced. Saying sexual selection is like saying natural selection, there are cultural pressures that drive each sexual selection.
Sexual selection always works in concert with natural/environmental selection anyway, I'm interested in understanding the details.

Of course, but unless some member here is actually a geneticist that has done this kind of research you are not going to get any detailed information about this.
I believe the basic mechanisms are as I explained them, I can't go any further than that.
 
Fair enough but for the record geneticists work on an abstract level that I have no interest in. I'm more interested in theorising on how and why this or that feature was favoured in the different strains of organism, basing it on their environment and the lifestyles they lead within that environment.
 
Fair enough but for the record geneticists work on an abstract level that I have no interest in. I'm more interested in theorising on how and why this or that feature was favoured in the different strains of organism, basing it on their environment and the lifestyles they lead within that environment.

True, it would fit more into the realm of ecology. I guess it would be Physical anthropology to be precise.
 
It has to do with nose structure. It changes with time.

The cartilage can calcify and change the shape and size of the nose.

Yes, but what does that have to do with the original nose structure ? I'm sure the OP didn't mean to include deformity form old age :p
 
Yes, but what does that have to do with the original nose structure ? I'm sure the OP didn't mean to include deformity form old age :p

The OP didn't specify, though. There are some diseases and changes that affect cartilage - so these too are factors that determine nose structure.
 
The OP didn't specify, though. There are some diseases and changes that affect cartilage - so these too are factors that determine nose structure.

True, he didn't specify explicitly, but I really he didn't mean it like you interpreted it.
 
True, he didn't specify explicitly, but I really he didn't mean it like you interpreted it.

It is relevant, though. If what happened to my grandfather's nose will happen to my nose too - then I am very worried.

Anyway, the OP should specify.
 
It is relevant, though. If what happened to my grandfather's nose will happen to my nose too - then I am very worried.

Anyway, the OP should specify.

lol :p

I agree he should specify more explicitly. He did however agree with me that the cause is genetic.
 
Enmos said:
Where in the DNA is the blueprint ? The DNA IS the blueprint.

Sure DNA codes for protein assembly, everyone knows that. The question is, where is the blue print for the nose?


Enmos said:
Uh.. see above ?
The proteins aren't shipped as you mention, they are made on the spot.

Isn't protein made inside the cell? If so, does it stay inside the cell forever? Or does the protein exit the cell and then locates its blue print position?
Enmos said:
I'm not sure what you're on about.. and I'm not sure you do yourself. Are you at least a little bit familiar with how genetics works ?

Central dogma -


Enmos said:
Perhaps you are referring to migratory cells that exist in the embryonic stage?
No I am referring to a school of fish.


Enmos said:
And your point is ?

Morphology, the shapes of things cannot be rationally determined from an analysis of DNA. There must be some interactive "field system" that Sheldrake refers to as "morphic resonance"



Enmos said:
Why are you talking about QM ?
And could you perhaps, if you choose to respond, write stuff down in a bit more readable manner ?
Yes, QM - is this post better? Enmos, mon ami, you actually read that inflated post? I salute you for the courtesy sir.
geistkiesel :shrug:
 
Back
Top