What Christians Believe

[fahrenheit 451]

keep in mind that "wisdom" doesn't pertain to facts, but to knowledge and truth..

I am not trying to convince you the bible is bad but you must have an open mind to suggestion so as to question " to know one's self is wisdom, to know others is enlightenment".

As I've said, facts can be proven. There is much factual information in the Bible that has been corroborated..

there facts in all books of fiction otherwise they would be nonsense

It proves that the Bible is true within its historical setting, but that's not the sum of its truth. .

then are aesops fables and arabian nights true within there historical settings

You can look at Archaeological Evidence verifying biblical cities and Non biblical accounts of New Testament events and/or people here..

as you can with the above fables

Nevertheless, many used to think that the Bible had numerous historical errors in it such as Luke's account of Lysanias being the tetrarch of Abiline in about 27 AD (Luke 3:1). For years scholars used this "factual error" to prove Luke was wrong because it was common knowledge that Lysanias was not a tetrarch, but the ruler of Chalcis about 50 years earlier than what Luke described. But, an archaeological inscription was found that said Lysanias was the tetrarch in Abila near Damascus at the time that Luke said. It turns out that there had been two people named Lysanias and Luke had accurately recorded the facts accurately.
Can we trust the New Testament as a historical document?​

This already contradicts your statements that there "isn't anything than has been proven" and that "there's no factual base" for it..

factual base i meant was to gods or god buddha allah etc as i stated above any book has to have an eliment of fact

But this isn't all you need to establish it's truth, is it? As I pointed out to ConsequentAtheist, the information contained in the Bible can itself be verified against experience. There are many truths that, like your statement, have merely been recorded in the Bible. You have to have better reasons for rejecting the Bible than "a lack of facts".
If you accept their guidance and moral content, it mean you already accept they are "fact", and you agree with the character of the authors - in other words, you accept the truth of what they're saying. And they would not have made those statements if they didn't believe in God. The moment you take God out of the equation, the premise on which they based their arguments fall flat. They derive their authority from the words of Jesus. If you recognize their authority, you recognize Jesus' authority. It's not propaganda, it's called deference. Where did their wisdom come from? On what grounds do you accept the message and reject the messenger?.

Literately every story /tale has moral guidance but this is not classed as truth

Aesop's Fables which is nearly as old as the Olympics
includes a total of 655+ Fables some and there suggested morals are below
Androcles Gratitude is the sign of noble souls
The Ant and the Chrysalis Appearances are deceptive
The Ant and the Dove One good turn deserves another
The Ass and the Grasshopper Even a fool is wise-when it is too late!
The Buffoon and the Countryman Men often applaud an imitation and hiss the real thing
The Bull and the Goat It shows an evil disposition to take advantage of a friend in distress
The Bundle of Sticks Union gives strength
The Cage Bird and the Bat Precautions are useless after the crisis

we are sated with such morals as A Man Is Known By The Company He Keeps, and Union Gives Strength. when you want insights, humor, and lessons in life.
but not true ( fables )
Also there’s the Arabian night(1001 nights)
All with moral guidance

• THE TALE OF THE BULL AND THE ASS
• THE FISHERMAN AND THE JINNI
• THE TALE OF THE ENSORCELED PRINCE
• THE PORTER AND THE THREE LADIES OF BAGHDAD
• WHOSO SPEAKETH OF WHAT CONCERNETH HIM NOT SHALL HEAR WHAT PLEASETH HIM NOT!
• THE TALE OF THE THREE APPLES
• THE FIRST KALANDAR'S TALE
• THE SECOND KALANDAR'S TALE
• THE THIRD KALANDAR'S TALE
• THE ELDEST LADY'S TALE
• TALE OF NUR AL-DIN ALI AND HIS SON BADR AL-DIN HASAN
• THE CITY OF MANY-COLUMNED IRAM AND ABDULLAH SON OF ABI KILABAH
• THE SWEEP AND THE NOBLE LADY
• THE MAN WHO STOLE THE DISH OF GOLD WHEREIN THE DOG ATE
• THE RUINED MAN WHO BECAME RICH AGAIN THROUGH A DREAM
• THE EBONY HORSE
• THE VOYAGE’S OF SINDBAD
• ABU KIR THE DYER AND ABU SIR THE BARBER
• THE SLEEPER AND THE WAKER
• ALADDIN; OR, THE WONDERFUL LAMP
• ALI BABA AND THE FORTY THIEVES
To name but few
but not true ( fables )
there are many folk tales in all religions, that does not make them true
they have gone down the eons into history as myths legend’s saga’s epic’s etc
I used to wish that there was truth in these tales but the only truth is that people wrote them.

what you dispute is the existence of God, and I can't help you with that, except by saying again that it doesn't follow from the evidence. Jesus himself asked people to examine the evidence and make up their own minds about his claims (John 8:45-47 and 14:11). He didn't rely on coersion or confrontation to establish his authority, he simply let his words and deeds speak for themselves..

as i have said I have nothing against the moral content of the bible qu'ran

Keep on researching the facts, and test them yourself. But don't limit the truth to dead facts, you'll only come up with dead truths. You have to test the claims these people made as well.

I am hence my reply.

 

[Jenyar]

I want to ask a question. If you get baptised and get saved or, whatever it is called,then go out and kill a bunch of people you still get to go to heaven?

If the answer is yes I don't think that is right and that is what I am being told.

p.s. I am not Christian.

Paula is right, that's simply not true...

1 John 3
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.​

 

[Jenyar]

Fahrenheit 451

Haven't you ever wondered why there are so many fables and fairy tales? It's because they were they way that people taught morals and kept the truth alive... a lot like Jesus' parables. The fictitious elements are easy to discern - animals don't talk, etc. - but they form a kind of narrative space that makes the truth easier to see and understand. When you eliminate what is clearly impossible, you are left with the moral, or truth - that's how fairy tales worked.

But the way historical facts are meshed into the stories are also different. Instead of being there to give it a more historic feel, they are the very elements of the story. Pharisees and Sadducees really existed; the objections they raise in the Bible can still be verified; The reasoning and conclusions of the disciples and apostles can still be verified. Jesus' miracles are given such historical status - not with the idea that they are obviously fictitious and should be eliminated, but that they are part of the truth. In those days people really believed in miracles, for whatever reason, and taking them out of the story would actually lessen its historical value.

 

[stretched]

Yo,

Quote stretched:
“O.K. First Adam can eat from any tree on the face of the earth. Then he cannot eat from a particular tree. And as we see, he did not die on that day.”

Quote JIL:
“But he did. Spiritually. He disobeyed God and brought sin into the world”

Nope dude, God did not say – “You will spiritually die”. This interpretation is only your way out of explaining the fact that Adam did not die.

Quote stretched:
“O.K. Cool. So God changes his mind? Creation on the hop. Help me here.”

Quote JIL:
“What do you mean?

Why if God said that Adam will surely die on that very day, did Adam live? Remember, God did not say anything about dying spiritually. He said –
Genesis- 2:17 “but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Explain to me on what authority you can interpret this any differently to what the Bible says?
Allcare.

 

[Jenyar]

stretched
Without doubt it has a physical meaning in the passage - remember that the ancient Hebrews did not have a spiritual understanding of life. To them, death and hell were the same place (sheol). It was only with the influence of prophets and visionaries that they came to understand that there were spiritual consequences to life's decisions.

Like other cultures, they were certain that everybody died, but uncertain about what God did with those who were dead. It was only by faith that they believed life was still available to them, no doubt owed in part to this decree in Genesis. If God said Adam and Eve would die, why didn't they? If death was such a sure thing, what made survival at all possible? The death of Adam and Eve marked the beginning of a spiritual life... which is intersting since the same is true for the death of Jesus, who was called to the "heavenly Adam".