What are the benefits of religion?

[New Atheist]

You said:



The studies you cited do not support that, though.

We would need studies of people who were non-religious, in great distress (clinically depressed, long-term unemployed, chronically severely ill and such) and who then joined organized religion expressedly viewing it as a tool to "cope with life as it is".

Comparing people who have been religious since early childhood or for a long time with people who have not been religious at all cannot lead to instructive results, since such a comparison trivializes the problems and challenges that a person faces when they try to become religious as adults.

Show me people who consider themselves both genuinely religious, who are respected members of religious communities - and who also believe that their religiousness is merely a tool for coping with life as it is because they lack any other adaptive coping mechanisms.


If religious people themselves do not view their religiouness as a mere coping tool, then the psychological abstraction that you work with is just speculation, based on the assumption that religiousness is for weaklings.

Well Sig, no clue what you just said. I agree with everything Wisdom Seeker wrote here. Religion, right or wrong, is a support structure. Some things are so evident they need no proof. This is one of them. Religion (all of them) may be wrong and a lie but they help a swath of society fit in and cope. "Weaklings" (in your workds) may be so, but none the less, you seem to only understand one aspect of Natural Selection and evolution - and that is collaboration is more important than competition. and without that segment of society, humanity will not make the next leap.

I'd really like to see how you put this down Signal. C'mon, lets hear it.

 

[wynn]

Well Sig, no clue what you just said. I agree with everything Wisdom Seeker wrote here. Religion, right or wrong, is a support structure. Some things are so evident they need no proof. This is one of them. Religion (all of them) may be wrong and a lie but they help a swath of society fit in and cope. "Weaklings" (in your workds) may be so, but none the less, you seem to only understand one aspect of Natural Selection and evolution - and that is collaboration is more important than competition. and without that segment of society, humanity will not make the next leap.

I'd really like to see how you put this down Signal. C'mon, lets hear it.

You just restated what you and some others have said earlier.

There is nothing new to "put down".


It is still not clear, though, that people take to religion for the sake of coping - and then cope successfully.
Rather, as intrareligious considerations show, people who first begin to turn to religion/God only when they are already in difficulty, do not fare well in the religion. Instead, they often develop what is termed "religious addiction," an unhealthy way to be religious.
(See various Christian books on spiritual/religious addiction and abuse.)

As for you having no clue what I had just said - then I suggest you read again.

:shrug:

 

[New Atheist]

You just restated what you and some others have said earlier.

There is nothing new to "put down".


It is still not clear, though, that people take to religion for the sake of coping - and then cope successfully.
Rather, as intrareligious considerations show, people who first begin to turn to religion/God only when they are already in difficulty, do not fare well in the religion. Instead, they often develop what is termed "religious addiction," an unhealthy way to be religious.
(See various Christian books on spiritual/religious addiction and abuse.)

As for you having no clue what I had just said - then I suggest you read again.

:shrug:

I did, again, and again and....

But not everyone comes to religion only in times of trouble. A huge population is raised, i should say marinated and seeped in religion, and are told to pray to resolve problems. And when life beats them up, they run to a place of worship to cope. These people are more in number than the ones you chose to draw on, the ones who "first begin to turn to god' are not who I am referring to.

And by the way, the reason, there is nothing new to put down, is because it is a central issue to humanity. I don't consume alcohol, but I do not begrudge the man who does, I do not smoke, but I do not begrudge the person who odes, I do not buy into religion, and I do not look down my nose at those who do. What part of the 'freedom to choose' do you not understand?

 

[wynn]

I did, again, and again and....

But not everyone comes to religion only in times of trouble. A huge population is raised, i should say marinated and seeped in religion, and are told to pray to resolve problems. And when life beats them up, they run to a place of worship to cope. These people are more in number than the ones you chose to draw on, the ones who "first begin to turn to god' are not who I am referring to.

And by the way, the reason, there is nothing new to put down, is because it is a central issue to humanity. I don't consume alcohol, but I do not begrudge the man who does, I do not smoke, but I do not begrudge the person who odes, I do not buy into religion, and I do not look down my nose at those who do. What part of the 'freedom to choose' do you not understand?

You can't read, or can you?

"New Atheist" - it figures.

 

[New Atheist]

oh for crying out loud, can we hear from someone other than urkel here.

 

[New Atheist]

OK so back to point at hand. How does religion benefit those who believe in it. I, do not see the need for it, but there are many who do, and that's fine. But i'd like to understand what those benefits are.

 

[chimpkin]

For me...I feel connection, less loneliness, and a sense of wonder with what I do.

I agree atheism is most logical, but mentally it doesn't seem to work for me. It feels too cold.

No offense meant.

 

[New Atheist]

For me...I feel connection, less loneliness, and a sense of wonder with what I do.

I agree atheism is most logical, but mentally it doesn't seem to work for me. It feels too cold.

No offense meant.

No Offense taken Chimpkin (like the handle - lol) I hear ya. It does feel too cold and its funny how many atheists think its necessary to be exclusionary.

It occurs to me that the human condition requires a sort of community feel. The need to be a part of a group. And I think thats what religion provides. Right?

 

[Yazata]

Well Sig, no clue what you just said.

I think that he's questioning the idea that people, especially weak people, choose to be religious because religion represents a coping mechanism in a tough world. That's not reflected in how people come to be religious.

I agree with everything Wisdom Seeker wrote here. Religion, right or wrong, is a support structure. Some things are so evident they need no proof. This is one of them.

A fundamentalist couldn't have said that any better.

I guess that every human belief, doctrine or social structure is some kind of "support structure" for living human life.

Of course, not all of these are consciously generated or adopted. Nor does something being a support structure imply that it's factually wrong or merely a psychological crutch. Science is a support structure. Medicine and engineering are support structures.

 

[charles brough]

Lets step back for a moment and say religion is man-made. (Please note this OP is not about whether religion is man made or not) If so, does it benefit the every day man? Is it hope that keeps man's mind from collapsing under the pressure of everyday life?

. . . a good subject. Religion serves the function of bonding people into a sense of comunity so they feel they belong and more eagerly help each other.
They go to the church, mosque or temple because they like to. We are social group primates and evolved that way.

The only atheistic religion is East Asian Marxism and it is otherwise such a defective ideology that most of the world's atheists, even those in China, are not among the Marxist faithful. Like us in the US, all we atheists of the world are kind of isolated and generally have to avoid expressing our view in order to function socially. and at work. :bawl: The faithful like to vandalize your home if you speak your mind in the local newspaper.

We need a common belief system or world-view that is atheist and that will also bring us the sense of community the rest of the world has. With it, we would be able to ultimately replace all the old religions and build a better world.

brough
http:civilization-overview.com

 

[New Atheist]

Charles, thank you for a constructive and accurate depiction of what its like being atheist and a possible path forward.

I am an atheist - although, i have not read nearly enough on the subject and my convictions are based on personal reflection and reasoning. And I think that it is in each person's best interest to follow his/her own path towards freedom - in this case freedom from the limitations of religion - 'red pill blu pill' kinda thing. they have to make the journey that inevitably brings them to the fork in the road that makes them choose.

For atheists, i do not believe there should be an 'evangelistic' wing where we go around trying to preach - its distasteful. Its also, distasteful to mock those who believe in something different. If we do, we are no better than those who survive under the veil of theism and man made religions.

Atheists, by virtue of their introspection, reasoning and loyalty to the truth (of nature and what is observable) should take the high ground in all we do, we do not need a set of rules to tell us killing is wrong, we know it is because we can our reason our way to its repercussions. We do not need a commandment to say that we must fight in a deity's name, because we know better.

And if we take the route of cooperation, collaboration, reason and reflection, we will be able to dictate the next step in our evolution.

But that's just me.

 

[Michael]

Financial benefits are one of the benefits of religion - I'd say it's the main one.

Interestingly, JW are near the bottom. Who would have guessed that? I've heard so much propaganda that they are only interested in "rich" white middle class I just assumed they were linked up with Scientology somehow?

 

[New Atheist]

Wow, this is an awesome piece of info. Did they measure Atheists anywhere or did I miss it?

 

[Jan Ardena]

"state of grace"... a nonsensical phrase.

Why is it?

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Like us in the US, all we atheists of the world are kind of isolated and generally have to avoid expressing our view in order to function socially. and at work. :bawl: The faithful like to vandalize your home if you speak your mind in the local newspaper.

Yet the big tv shows, films, documentaries not to mention toys, law, and legistration all allow condemnation of God, Jesus, and religion (as if it were to be taken for granted).

We need a common belief system or world-view that is atheist and that will also bring us the sense of community the rest of the world has. With it, we would be able to ultimately replace all the old religions and build a better world.

brough
http:civilization-overview.com

A New Age?
A New World Order?

jan.

 

[rjr6]

Religion gives you someone else to lay the blame upon, the devil made me do it, God works in mysterious ways and on and on.

And science gave us 'chemical imbalance' and 'chaos theory'.

 

[rjr6]

Lets step back for a moment and say religion is man-made. (Please note this OP is not about whether religion is man made or not) If so, does it benefit the every day man? Is it hope that keeps man's mind from collapsing under the pressure of everyday life?

our lives here whether you 'have religion' or not, are temporary. Why do you think religion gives a person hope, since that is what you expressed in your question?

 

[New Atheist]

our lives here whether you 'have religion' or not, are temporary. Why do you think religion gives a person hope, since that is what you expressed in your question?

Our current particular consciousness is temporary, BUT our collective consciousness is NOT. In my opinion most people find hope in religion because they are told to. Others, because the follow common practice and still others, with a sense of "what do I have to loose?" I am sure there are 4 billion unique reasons, but i just thought of three.

It also promises an after life. Or the threat of a bad after life (for those who believe in reincarnations)

Personally, I like knowing that once my lights go out, its game over. And the only thing that remains are the accomplishments I have made which help the living. It makes me want to get up every day and do more because I do not have much time left.

 

[chimpkin]

Personally, I like knowing that once my lights go out, its game over.

That would be too tempting. I choose to believe if I push the reset button, I'll just have to do it all over in a slightly different miserable way.

I'm having a bad hair incarnation.

FWIW, I'm not part of any group, I'm much more inclined to be a solitary practitioner.

 

[Jan Ardena]

New Atheist,

Our current particular consciousness is temporary, BUT our collective consciousness is NOT. In my opinion most people find hope in religion because they are told to. Others, because the follow common practice and still others, with a sense of "what do I have to loose?" I am sure there are 4 billion unique reasons, but i just thought of three.

People take refuge of the Darwinian idea of evolution for the same reasons;

1 they are told to
2 because they follow current trends
3 as they don't have to answer for their action, they can do whatever they like.

I, like you, am sure that there may be billions of other reasons.

It also promises an after life. Or the threat of a bad after life (for those who believe in reincarnations

)


Religion loosely base their philosophy on scriptures which do not promise anything. They are instructions for how human beings to reach their full human potential. No other discipline concerns itself with such a task.

Personally, I like knowing that once my lights go out, its game over.

As an example, Christians like to think that when their lights go out, their spirit goes to heaven. What is the difference between you and the Christian
(apart from the destination)?

And the only thing that remains are the accomplishments I have made which help the living. It makes me want to get up every day and do more because I do not have much time left.

How can your acomplishment help the living, when the living are born to die?
Can your acomplisment stop the onslaught of time upon material objects?
Do you have plans for that?


jan.