We're all going to hell.

[tony1]

Re: The worm doth woo the mortal...

Originally posted by Emerald
Does any of your doctrine come from the Old Testament? You know, if the New Testament writers hadn't spent so much time plagiarizing the works of Old Testament writers, I might not have as much ammunition:

It's probably safe to say my doctrine comes equally from both the OT and the NT, since there is overlap there.

I don't see the copyright notice that would turn "quoting" into "plagiarizing."

Besides, the amount of quoting you're doing from the OT is starting to rival the NT, and I'm pretty sure you would laugh off an accusation of plagiarism.

That's what I'm doing.

<font color="red">Psalms 22:1 [To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

</font>
I see the worm thing here.
But, wasn't the "immortal worm" supposed to be immortal?
Assuming that this psalm is about Jesus, the worm mentioned here dies, as contrasted to the other worm "that dieth not."

<font color="red">

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.


Num 12:9 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed.
10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.
11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.
12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb.


Isaiah 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.


Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.</font>

I'd like to underscore the point that it isn't necessarily a good thing for one's sins to become "white as snow", nor should one strive to be "as wool", lest one be eaten by the worm.

This is clever.

Sins as scarlet.
White as wool.

Leprous white as snow.
Worm eats wool.

Therefore, white is bad and wool gets eaten.
Therefore scarlet sins better than white, eaten wool.

I suppose you have dozens, or even hundreds like this.

I'm guessing that it is pointless to point out that your point is missing the point?

It could be that sins should not be scarlet, and skin should not be white as snow.

It could be that the worm isn't going to be eating bleached sins, as much as it will be eating men who revile the righteous and who transgress against the Lord.

 

[Emerald]

Re: Re: The worm doth woo the mortal...

Tony,

Originally posted by tony1
I don't see the copyright notice that would turn "quoting" into "plagiarizing."

I hadn't noticed where they had acknowledged the source from which the material was copied. As I see it, the material was either copied by Christians from the Old Testament into the New Testament, or the matching material found in the Old Testament was really a later Christian interpolation.

I see the worm thing here. But, wasn't the "immortal worm" supposed to be immortal? Assuming that this psalm is about Jesus, the worm mentioned here dies, as contrasted to the other worm "that dieth not."

You mean, Jesus is dead?

I'm guessing that it is pointless to point out that your point is missing the point?

It could be that sins should not be scarlet, and skin should not be white as snow.

It could be that the worm isn't going to be eating bleached sins, as much as it will be eating men who revile the righteous and who transgress against the Lord.

What color <i>should</i> sins be?

My point is that your god is sometimes very cryptic with his messages, and maybe you have to work a bit to figure out what he's really saying, rather than take it at face value. It tied in with the worm thing pretty neatly, so I thought it was appropriate to include it here.

By the way, the Old Testament seemed to have no problem with scarlet or crimson or with people being clothed in scarlet or crimson - in fact, it appears to be a good thing:

<font color="red">Proverbs 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.</font>

No point there, really. Just thought I'd mention it.

Emerald

 

[tony1]

scarlet is still OK, it's the sins that aren't

Originally posted by Emerald
I hadn't noticed where they had acknowledged the source from which the material was copied. As I see it, the material was either copied by Christians from the Old Testament into the New Testament, or the matching material found in the Old Testament was really a later Christian interpolation.

Oh, is that the problem?

Well, here are some examples...

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
(Hebrews 4:7, KJV).

God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
(Acts 13:33, KJV).

You mean, Jesus is dead?

He was.

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
(Revelation 1:18, KJV).

My point is that your god is sometimes very cryptic with his messages, and maybe you have to work a bit to figure out what he's really saying, rather than take it at face value.

In one sense, you're not helping any.
OTOH, you do have an interesting, though deadly, take on things.

By the way, the Old Testament seemed to have no problem with scarlet or crimson or with people being clothed in scarlet or crimson - in fact, it appears to be a good thing:

<font color="red">Proverbs 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.</font>

No point there, really. Just thought I'd mention it.

Actually, there is a point there.

The ideal woman is a wealthy woman, according to that proverb.

After all, God takes pleasure in the prosperity of his servants...

If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
(Job 36:11, KJV).

Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
(Psalms 35:27, KJV).

Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Emerald]

Perhaps I should also remind you of this...

Tony,

Originally posted by tony1
The ideal woman is a wealthy woman, according to that proverb.

After all, God takes pleasure in the prosperity of his servants...

If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
(Job 36:11, KJV).

Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
(Psalms 35:27, KJV).

Thanks for reminding me.

No - thank <i>you</i> for reminding <i>me</i> of one more apple cart that Jesus came to upset:

<font color="red">Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Luke 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Luke 18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Luke 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

Luke 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?

Luke 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

Luke 18:28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.

Luke 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,

Luke 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.</font>

I hope that clears it all up for you, Tony.

Emerald

 

[tony1]

Re: Perhaps I should also remind you of this...

Originally posted by Emerald
No - thank <i>you</i> for reminding <i>me</i> of one more apple cart that Jesus came to upset:

<font color="red">Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.</font>

I hope that clears it all up for you, Tony.

All?

Anyway, I've got to guess that your point here might be that Christians have to be broke, and who would want that?
Of course, there is the point-counterpoint thing that follows this subject, too.

Tha answer to my assumption of your point is in verse 27...

And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
(Luke 18:27, KJV).

Plus there is the added advantage of receiving a return on anything given up for God, as in verse 30 or here...

And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
(Mark 10:29,30, KJV).


The rewards are immense, especially when compared to what people generally consider good returns.