We're all going to hell.

[Tiassa]

So that's what you're after ....

You quoted the verse Catholics quote

And on that standard, it isn't in the Bible? Tell you what, Tony ... go read the whole of the Catholic Encyclopaedia and the Catechism and cross off every Bible phrase used to justify any part of Catholic faith. When you finish, let me know what part of the Bible is untouched and therefore acceptable to use in regard to any issues you wish to discuss.

It should be interesting, at least.

--Tiassa

 

[tony1]

Are you an undercover Catholic priest?

Originally posted by tiassa
And on that standard, it isn't in the Bible? Tell you what, Tony ... go read the whole of the Catholic Encyclopaedia and the Catechism and cross off every Bible phrase used to justify any part of Catholic faith. When you finish, let me know what part of the Bible is untouched and therefore acceptable to use in regard to any issues you wish to discuss.

I'm sure very few parts of the Bible are untouched.

In various threads, I've been answering you according to the general context of each discussion.
It has occurred to me to look at all of your posts, and it seems to me that you are the ultimate Roman Catholic apologist.

Very low maintenance, in that you probably never take up any time of any Catholic priest.

Somehow, the Roman Catholic Church has indoctrinated you with every Dogma and Doctrine that exists.
Now I understand what the communists were trying to do with their indoctrination.
Their demise, aside from denying God, seems to stem from this failure to indoctrinate people in such a way that even when the people believe they are against an "ism," they are fervent apologists for it, in spite of themselves.

Every time you quote a Bible verse, you appear to interpret it with the RC spin.
You quote the ECF in greater detail than many RC scholars.
To you the entire world is neither black nor white nor gray, it is RC or anti-RC.

And which do you defend?
On any debatable point, you either defend the RC view, propose the RC view or insist that your opponent holds the RC view but is denying it.

Is there anything in your world that is not RC-flavored?

To answer your point in general terms, the fact that a verse is quoted by Catholics to "substantiate" RC doctrine does not mean that the RC doctrine is true, or even that the verse says what RC doctrine says that it says.

Thus, when you insist that hell is eternal torment, you are essentially quoting...

The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
(CCC, Part I, Sec II, Art. 12, IV, Para. 1035)

This doctrine is not taught in the Bible, although with your RC-colored glasses on, you can't see that.

 

[Tiassa]

Whoa, Nellie

Methinks, sir Tony, that you are perhaps searching too hard for a plank to smack people in the eye with.

It's very simple:

* You have attempted to classify Roman Catholics as not Christian. This is laughable. I have attempted to demonstrate this.

* Furthermore, the reason that this is important is that to discount Catholocism in an effort to avoid considerations on past mistakes made in the name of God is to exscind from the process the very means by which the Word was capable of existing long enough for you, sir, to inherit it. This is much like the fact that I am slightly perturbed at how sea to shining sea kicked the crap out of the people who lived here first; like I said in the Cult post--I am an American and I'm aware of what that means.

That's all there is to it. A pair of ideas in a larger process identifying what is perhaps the most significant cultural phenomenon ever. It's not hard to grasp, sir.

--Tiassa

 

[FA_Q2]

The one thing that I do have to say is that it may seem to go either way. The problem I am having tony is that you cannot construct an argument at all for your position. All you say is your wrong and I'm right. You sound like a child. I have already built up quite an argument for your side as well as the opposite, I like to walk on both sides before setting an opinion. Why fight so hard for nothing. I know you could sway tiassa if you could start sounding remotely intelligent and trying to make a statement. Instead you say worthless statements and pointless plays on words. I know you have the quotes and at LEAST enough intelligence to work it through. Hell my 10yr old sister can do better than this.

 

[tony1]

Yes, Whoa, Nellie

Originally posted by tiassa
* You have attempted to classify Roman Catholics as not Christian. This is laughable. I have attempted to demonstrate this.

This is the Christianity forum.
You bring Roman Catholic doctrine into this forum.
Therefore you are trying to classify Roman Catholicism as Christianity.

You are attempting to blame me for doing the opposite.

* Furthermore, the reason that this is important is that to discount Catholocism in an effort to avoid considerations on past mistakes made in the name of God is to exscind from the process the very means by which the Word was capable of existing long enough for you, sir, to inherit it.

When you say "Word," you appear to mean the ink on paper form of the Bible.
This, again, is the Catholic meaning.
Christians know that isn't what it is.

That's all there is to it. A pair of ideas in a larger process identifying what is perhaps the most significant cultural phenomenon ever. It's not hard to grasp, sir.

A pair of Catholic-colored ideas in a larger Catholic process in a most significant Catholic phenomenon.
It really is not that hard to grasp.

As I said before, you are so thoroughly indoctrinated into Roman Catholicism that you can only argue for or against Roman Catholicism.

Are you aware that if Rome were so important in the large scheme of things, that it would get more than a passing mention in the Bible?

Are you aware that if Catholicism were as important in general as it is in your life that it would at least be mentioned in the Bible?

Originally posted by FA_Q2
The problem I am having tony is that you cannot construct an argument at all for your position. All you say is your wrong and I'm right. You sound like a child.

Oh no! Whatever am I going to do to fix this??!!??

I have already built up quite an argument for your side as well as the opposite, I like to walk on both sides before setting an opinion.

If you really are doing this, I'd be impressed.

I know you could sway tiassa if you could start sounding remotely intelligent and trying to make a statement.

I'm not trying to sway tiassa.
The fact that I can or can't sway someone to believe there is another way of doing things means nothing.
Only one thing is important and it is that there is a way and his name is Jesus.

Instead you say worthless statements and pointless plays on words. I know you have the quotes and at LEAST enough intelligence to work it through. Hell my 10yr old sister can do better than this.

I have to admit that this is an issue that has come up often in my life.
I decided long ago that if I can't stoop low enough to sound intelligent to someone else, I won't try.

 

[Tiassa]

Stop being so exclusive ....

Therefore you are trying to classify Roman Catholicism as Christianity.

Tony, what, is a Christian? How about an affirmative example, instead of an identification of what isn't?

Consider disparate church philosophies, and the people who believe them: Catholics, Kingdom Hall, Church of Christ Science, Latter-Day Saints ... I've heard various people of faith decry these churches as not Christian, though none can create a definition that A) excludes these churches, or B) isn't nitpicnkingy, ridiculously detailed.

Take a shot at it. You don't have much to lose.

This, again, is the Catholic meaning.

This reminds me of when the PMRC and other groups objected to rap lyrics. With the artists claiming the fundamental necessity of harsh forms of expression and the rights thereof, the censors merely wrote off the expressions themselves as profane.

Stop using Catholocism as a cliche retreat.

As I said before, you are so thoroughly indoctrinated into Roman Catholicism that you can only argue for or against Roman Catholicism.

You can stop running away from the actual issue at any time. You have dismissed parts of Christian history because they occurred under the stewardship of the Catholics. I gave you the Anti-Catholic League url didn't I? If not, I'll dig it up again, but it's really easy to find with any search engine.

Are you aware that if Rome were so important in the large scheme of things, that it would get more than a passing mention in the Bible?

Thank you for making me aware of your assertion.

Are you aware that if Catholicism were as important in general as it is in your life that it would at least be mentioned in the Bible?

Yeah, that almost makes an argumentative point. Do you realize that if you sir, actually had the right faith, you would be included in the Bible?

It's a dumb assertion, isn't it? That's the point. It took me two seconds to think of an assertion as dumb as yours.

I'll mail you a brown shirt for Christmas.

I know you could sway tiassa if you could start sounding remotely intelligent and trying to make a statement.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not trying to sway tiassa.

It isn't my place to speak for anybody, of course, but I would suggest that I would agree with you on the grounds that you're not trying to sway me. However, I believe myself sympathetic to FA_Q2's perspective on this: You may, Tony, stand accused of trying to sway me toward the idea that you have a point.

--Tiassa

 

[FA_Q2]

" Oh no! Whatever am I going to do to fix this??!!??"

Start using that brain. God did give it to you for a reason.

" When you say "Word," you appear to mean the ink on paper form of the Bible.
This, again, is the Catholic meaning.
Christians know that isn't what it is."

If the bible is not the word (a set of words on paper in a book) Then what is it. I take it that it is the meaning of those words and I also take it that tiassa sees it the same way. Tell me if I am wrong.

" If you really are doing this, I'd be impressed. "

I am. It is not very difficult. Standard for anyone who ever wants a good debate.

" I'm not trying to sway tiassa.
The fact that I can or can't sway someone to believe there is another way of doing things means nothing.
Only one thing is important and it is that there is a way and his name is Jesus. "

Then what are you doing here?

" I have to admit that this is an issue that has come up often in my life.
I decided long ago that if I can't stoop low enough to sound intelligent to someone else, I won't try."

Its a matter of stepping up to your true potential. It is always a shame to see something go to waste.

OTOH it could be that the issue has popped up several times because you simply are not saying intelligent thing.

 

[tony1]

Re: Stop being so exclusive ....

Originally posted by tiassa
Tony, what, is a Christian? How about an affirmative example, instead of an identification of what isn't?

Tough question. As I mentioned in another post, it is a word used by non-Christians to describe what they think of as believers.
I use it more for your convenience than mine, but I can see that may have been a mistake.

But if I had to define Christian so that it actually meant believer, I would say, a person who does this...
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(Romans 10:8, KJV).

Not any Jesus, the Lord Jesus.
Not from some life in another location, from actual death.

Consider disparate church philosophies, and the people who believe them: Catholics, Kingdom Hall, Church of Christ Science, Latter-Day Saints ... I've heard various people of faith decry these churches as not Christian, though none can create a definition that A) excludes these churches, or B) isn't nitpicnkingy, ridiculously detailed.

The verse I gave excludes them.
The Catholics believe in the Lord Mary, otherwise known as the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The JW believe in Michael.
The CCC believe in the Lord Mary Baker Eddy, otherwise known as Mary Baker Eddy.
The LDS have some problem identifying Jesus as the Word, since they feel some additional need for more word.

However, there may be Christians in all of these organizations.

Stop using Catholocism as a cliche retreat.

I challenge you to show me how.

I gave you the Anti-Catholic League url didn't I?

This is the anti-RC tiassa speaking.
Just the flip side of the pro-RC tiassa.

Thank you for making me aware of your assertion.

Are you aware that if Rome were important, it might show up in the Bible,as important?
Jerusalem is mentioned 767 times in th KJV as such, with other, more veiled references to it.
Rome shows up 15 times, mostly as a return address on some letters.

Yeah, that almost makes an argumentative point. Do you realize that if you sir, actually had the right faith, you would be included in the Bible?

It's a dumb assertion, isn't it? That's the point. It took me two seconds to think of an assertion as dumb as yours.

Belief in Jesus is mentioned several times. The existence of some Rome-based organization other than the Roman government isn't mentioned at all.
The pope or even the idea of a pope isn't mentioned at all.

I think your indignant response is more proof that you are actually an undercover Catholic priest, or at least a thoroughly indoctrinated facsimile thereof.

It seems that the only time you respond sarcastically is when there is the slightest hint of anticatholicism in my comments, whether intended or not.

You, sir, are a Roman Catholic, with the Catechism for a brain.
You claim to have turned your back on Catholicism, but you can't.
It is you.
The Roman Catholic Church owns you.
You can only answer with Catechism or with antiCatechism.

 

[tony1]

Originally posted by FA_Q2
" Oh no! Whatever am I going to do to fix this??!!??"

Start using that brain. God did give it to you for a reason.

One of the things I use mine for, is to detect sarcasm.

If the bible is not the word (a set of words on paper in a book) Then what is it. I take it that it is the meaning of those words and I also take it that tiassa sees it the same way. Tell me if I am wrong.

You don't seem to have made up your mind which it is.
The words in brackets pretty much contradict any reference to meaning.

Standard for anyone who ever wants a good debate.

You're holding back just a teeny bit, then.

Then what are you doing here?

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was the Christianity forum.

Its a matter of stepping up to your true potential. It is always a shame to see something go to waste.

Sorry, buddy, it really would be stooping down in your case.

OTOH it could be that the issue has popped up several times because you simply are not saying intelligent thing.

I've noticed that for most people it is difficult to grasp concepts that are beyond them.
You are playing true to form so far.

 

[FA_Q2]

No, this is a Christian debate forum. Now, considering answering anything?

You don't seem to have made up your mind which it is.
The words in brackets pretty much contradict any reference to meaning

Work on the reading comprehension.
I was answering my own question.

 

[tony1]

Originally posted by FA_Q2
No, this is a Christian debate forum. Now, considering answering anything?

The title at the top of my screen says "Christianity."
Try working on the reading, period.

I was answering my own question.

Is that how debate works?

 

[Tiassa]

Seek help/forgiveness

Tough question. As I mentioned in another post, it is a word used by non-Christians to describe what they think of as believers.
I use it more for your convenience than mine, but I can see that may have been a mistake.

Well enough. Two questions, then:
* If you're not Christian, then what do you call the philosophy you argue on behalf of? If you feel mistakenly labeled, then I think an affirmation of your faith might possibly correct that mistake.

* If what you're arguing has nothing to do with Christianity, why is it in this forum?

But if I had to define Christian so that it actually meant believer, I would say, a person who does this...
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:8, KJV).

So a Christian is defined by confession, and also by belief in the Resurrection? I'll take issue with your exclusion of Catholocism, then.

Not any Jesus, the Lord Jesus.
Not from some life in another location, from actual death.

This sounds like it's rooted in faith. Which is fine when describing a Christian, so you'll find no objection from me.

The verse I gave excludes them.

You have not explained what is wrong with the extended beliefs of these churches. You have merely enumerated some of them. Most people of faith are disqualified, then, since they believe in ideas not necessarily justified by the Bible.

I challenge you to show me how.

It's very simple, Tony. You just step up and take on a question in search of an answer. If you choose not to hide behind your Catholic-deflection excuse, you'll find it much easier to avoid Catholic-bashing in an effort to justify your faith and deeds.

This is the anti-RC tiassa speaking.
Just the flip side of the pro-RC tiassa.

Wow ... med school taught you to diagnose my schizophrenia online?

Do better, Tony.

Are you aware that if Rome were important, it might show up in the Bible,as important?
Jerusalem is mentioned 767 times in th KJV as such, with other, more veiled references to it.
Rome shows up 15 times, mostly as a return address on some letters.

And what does this demonstrate other than the enumeration of words?

Belief in Jesus is mentioned several times.

Over a billion people believe in Jesus, and none of them are mentioned except as abstractions regarding future generations of faith. Some of these people disagree. Which means that of these people, some will be judged acceptable for their faith, and some will be judged unacceptable. If one of these people has the whole thing nailed just right, I can assure you with all the confidence of your own unfounded assertion, that they would be mentioned directly in the Bible.

I think your indignant response is more proof that you are actually an undercover Catholic priest, or at least a thoroughly indoctrinated facsimile thereof.

It seems that the only time you respond sarcastically is when there is the slightest hint of anticatholicism in my comments, whether intended or not.

You, sir, are a Roman Catholic, with the Catechism for a brain.
You claim to have turned your back on Catholicism, but you can't.
It is you.
The Roman Catholic Church owns you.
You can only answer with Catechism or with antiCatechism.

I think you might need to seek a professional counselor to help you deal with this phobia, mania, or neurosis ... your hatred of the Catholic Church is bursting through the thin veil of paranoia you've spun. I can say that it is seriously affecting your logical functions.

You have many issues to work out, Tony. And I wish you the best in them.

As to your slanders against me ... it's okay, Tony. I forgive you.

--Tiassa

 

[FA_Q2]

"The title at the top of my screen says "Christianity."
Try working on the reading, period. "

Because you are such an idiot I will point out EXACTLY what the title of this page is:

sciforums.com > Religious Debate > Christianity > We're all going to hell.

Is that debate that I see there?

Now tony. R E A D
Not that hard. Try it yourself and stop bothering me every time you miss a damn word.

 

[tony1]

Re: Seek help/forgiveness

Originally posted by tiassa
Well enough. Two questions, then:
* If you're not Christian, then what do you call the philosophy you argue on behalf of? If you feel mistakenly labeled, then I think an affirmation of your faith might possibly correct that mistake.

I don't feel mistakenly labelled.

* If what you're arguing has nothing to do with Christianity, why is it in this forum?

It has plenty to do with Christianity, which is why it is in this forum.
I'm surprised that it took you, or anyone, this long to ask these two questions.

So a Christian is defined by confession, and also by belief in the Resurrection? I'll take issue with your exclusion of Catholocism, then.

I thought you might.
One major complaint you have about Christianity is the exclusivism.
This is where that rubber meets the road.
Christianity exclusively believes that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that God raised him up from the dead.
Catholicism allows for any other random belief to be combined with the stated belief, including the belief that one does not personally have to believe the stated belief, as long as one assents to the fact that the Catholic Church has written it down as a belief to be believed.

You have not explained what is wrong with the extended beliefs of these churches. You have merely enumerated some of them. Most people of faith are disqualified, then, since they believe in ideas not necessarily justified by the Bible.

Good point.
The extended beliefs should be backed by scripture and should also not contradict scripture.

It's very simple, Tony. You just step up and take on a question in search of an answer. If you choose not to hide behind your Catholic-deflection excuse, you'll find it much easier to avoid Catholic-bashing in an effort to justify your faith and deeds.

This would be a description, as opposed to a demonstration.

Wow ... med school taught you to diagnose my schizophrenia online?

Well, no. Your admission suffices.

And what does this demonstrate other than the enumeration of words?

Not much, if to you, counting something results only in a number.

Over a billion people believe in Jesus, and none of them are mentioned except as abstractions regarding future generations of faith. Some of these people disagree. Which means that of these people, some will be judged acceptable for their faith, and some will be judged unacceptable. If one of these people has the whole thing nailed just right, I can assure you with all the confidence of your own unfounded assertion, that they would be mentioned directly in the Bible.

They are, as the "saved".

I think you might need to seek a professional counselor to help you deal with this phobia, mania, or neurosis ... your hatred of the Catholic Church is bursting through the thin veil of paranoia you've spun. I can say that it is seriously affecting your logical functions.

Phobia, paranoia of the Catholic Church?
Don't those words have something to do with fear, either real or imagined?
What do I have to fear from the RCC?

As to your slanders against me ... it's okay, Tony. I forgive you.

What?
On the one hand, you fervently defend "the" Catholic faith.
On the other hand, you consider it slanderous to be called a Catholic.

What schizophrenia is this?

 

[tony1]

Originally posted by FA_Q2
"The title at the top of my screen says "Christianity."
Try working on the reading, period. "

Originally posted by FA_Q2
No, this is a Christian debate forum. Now, considering answering anything?

Originally posted by FA_Q2
Because you are such an idiot I will point out EXACTLY what the title of this page is:
sciforums.com > Religious Debate > Christianity > We're all going to hell.

Note the dissimilarity between your earlier assertion and your later one.

Coherence is relatively important in establishing a point.
Without it, you end up incoherent.

Is that debate that I see there?
Now tony. R E A D
Not that hard. Try it yourself and stop bothering me every time you miss a damn word.

Do you have a point in any of this, or are you trying to establish that your IQ, while higher than average in general, is lower than average on this board?

 

[Emerald]

Tony,

Originally posted by tony1
I have to admit the eternal worm concept is a question-provoking item.

You're good with the questions. I don't want to live forever "badly," I want to live forever "well."

Here is a bit more on the "eternal worm" concept:

<font color="blue">08438 towla` {to-law'} and (fem) towle`ah {to-lay-aw'} or towla`ath {to-lah'-ath}; or tola`ath {to-lah'-ath}

from 03216; TWOT - 2516b; n m

AV - scarlet 34, worm 8, crimson 1; 43

1) worm, scarlet stuff, crimson
1a) worm - the female 'coccus ilicis'
1b) scarlet stuff, crimson, scarlet
1b1) the dye made from the dried body of the female of the worm "coccus ilicis"
2) worm, maggot
2a) worm, grub
2b) the worm "coccus ilicis"
++++
When the female of the scarlet worm species was ready to give birth to her young, she would attach her body to the trunk of a tree, fixing herself so firmly and permanently that she would never leave again. The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched and able to enter their own life cycle. As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. From the dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the commercial scarlet dyes of antiquity were extracted. What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding his precious blood that he might "bring many sons unto glory" ("#Heb 2:10")! He died for us, that we might live through him! "#Ps 22:6" describes such a worm and gives us this picture of Christ. (cf. "#Isa 1:18") (from page 73, "Biblical Basis for Modern Science", 1985, Baker Book House, by Henry Morris)</font>

Hmmm...so hell is the place where "their worm dieth not", and the eternal worm is apparently Jesus. What was it you were saying about not wanting to live forever "badly"?

Emerald

 

[Fred]

Tetra,
I totally agree with you in some ways. Religion is noting, it only seqerates God's children from one and another. I wonder if religion is the Devils creation, you see all religions beleive that they are right and others are wrong, and that those who do not follow their religion are all going to Hell. This is a bunch of CRAP, and those of you who believe that and state that are only sending people to Hell. Why in the world would anyone who is not quite shure if God is real or not want to be part of such a faith where the ones who are supposed to be brothers and sister in Christ, can't even get along with each other. The Bible says that there is only one true Religion, but what is it? I think the only true religion is no religion at all. You see, for instance, what church did Jesus go to? And how many churches were there back then. A church is a place of God, not a place of the catholics, or a place of any religion, it is Gods place and that only. The Bible says that "for God so loved the earth that He gave his only begotten Son, so that who so ever believes in Him WILL NOT perish, but live EVER LASTING LIFE." And that is the answer, just believe and confess, and you have earned a place in Heaven. Once you do that, God will Help you with the rest. And a little loving advice, don't take anyones word for anything, because it is not His word, look into everything. The Bible is the answer not man's words.

 

[tony1]

Originally posted by Emerald
Here is a bit more on the "eternal worm" concept:

<font color="blue">08438 towla`
AV - scarlet 34, worm 8, crimson 1; 43

1) worm, scarlet stuff, crimson
1a) worm - the female 'coccus ilicis'
1b) scarlet stuff, crimson, scarlet
1b1) the dye made from the dried body of the female of the worm "coccus ilicis"
2) worm, maggot
2a) worm, grub
2b) the worm "coccus ilicis"
++++
When the female of the scarlet worm species was ready to give birth to her young, she would attach her body to the trunk of a tree, fixing herself so firmly and permanently that she would never leave again. The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched and able to enter their own life cycle. As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. From the dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the commercial scarlet dyes of antiquity were extracted. What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding his precious blood that he might "bring many sons unto glory" ("#Heb 2:10")! He died for us, that we might live through him! "#Ps 22:6" describes such a worm and gives us this picture of Christ. (cf. "#Isa 1:18") (from page 73, "Biblical Basis for Modern Science", 1985, Baker Book House, by Henry Morris)</font>

Hmmm...so hell is the place where "their worm dieth not", and the eternal worm is apparently Jesus. What was it you were saying about not wanting to live forever "badly"?

I realize that you have an ax to grind, but isn't this stretching it a bit?

I don't actually get my doctrine from notes in the margin of a dictionary, no matter how centered between the margins the note might be.

Plus, I suppose you're hoping I won't notice that the worms are female and dead in the dictionary note.

 

[tony1]

Originally posted by Fred
Religion is noting, it only seqerates God's children from one and another.

Actually, religion separates God's children from the devil's children.
It works very well for that.

I wonder if religion is the Devils creation, you see all religions beleive that they are right and others are wrong, and that those who do not follow their religion are all going to Hell.

A lot of religions don't believe that.

Not only that, hell is the grave, not the cartoonish hole in the middle of the earth with flames and doormen with pitchforks.

Are you thinking you can avoid the grave, somehow?

This is a bunch of CRAP, and those of you who believe that and state that are only sending people to Hell. Why in the world would anyone who is not quite shure if God is real or not want to be part of such a faith where the ones who are supposed to be brothers and sister in Christ, can't even get along with each other.

"Supposed to be" is different from "is."

There are many people attending churches, who call themselves Christians, who aren't Christians.

I think the only true religion is no religion at all.

The only true wisdom is no wisdom at all?

You see, for instance, what church did Jesus go to? And how many churches were there back then. A church is a place of God, not a place of the catholics, or a place of any religion, it is Gods place and that only.

He went to synagogues and preached there.

The Bible says that "for God so loved the earth that He gave his only begotten Son, so that who so ever believes in Him WILL NOT perish, but live EVER LASTING LIFE." And that is the answer, just believe and confess, and you have earned a place in Heaven. Once you do that, God will Help you with the rest. And a little loving advice, don't take anyones word for anything, because it is not His word, look into everything. The Bible is the answer not man's words.

For a guy that believes in no religion, you are surprisingly religious.
In any case, your last point is good.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
(Acts 17:11, KJV).

 

[Emerald]

The worm doth woo the mortal...

Tony,

Originally posted by tony1
I realize that you have an ax to grind, but isn't this stretching it a bit?

I don't actually get my doctrine from notes in the margin of a dictionary, no matter how centered between the margins the note might be.

Does any of your doctrine come from the Old Testament? You know, if the New Testament writers hadn't spent so much time plagiarizing the works of Old Testament writers, I might not have as much ammunition:

<font color="red">Psalms 22:1 [To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Psalms 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

Psalms 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

Psalms 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

Psalms 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

Psalms 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Psalms 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

Psalms 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

Psalms 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

Psalms 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Psalms 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

Psalms 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

Psalms 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

Psalms 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

Psalms 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Psalms 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

Psalms 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Psalms 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

Psalms 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

Psalms 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

Psalms 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

Psalms 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

Psalms 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

Psalms 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

Psalms 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Psalms 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

Psalms 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Psalms 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

Psalms 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.


Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.


Num 12:9 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed.

Num 12:10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

Num 12:11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.

Num 12:12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb.


Isaiah 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Isaiah 51:8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.


Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.</font>

I'd like to underscore the point that it isn't necessarily a good thing for one's sins to become "white as snow", nor should one strive to be "as wool", lest one be eaten by the worm.

Emerald