Was Paul Gay?

skywalker

3 @ T M 3
Registered Senior Member
Did he have gay urges?




In the Book of Acts it says that Paul had Timothy circumcised:

1: And he came also to Derbe and to Lystra: and behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewess that believed; but his father was a Greek.
2: The same was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
3: Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and he took and circumcised him because of the Jews that were in those parts: for they all knew that his father was a Greek.
(Acts 16:3 American Standard Version)




Paul circumcised Timothy because he was facing stiff opposition from the Jews. Thus, in order to avoid getting into more troubles Paul had Timothy circumcised, even though Timothy's father happened to be a Greek Gentile. But why was the circumcision debate important for the Jews whom Paul wanted to pacify?

To some Gentile readers, this circumcision debate might seem peripheral. Some men are circumcised, others not - so what? In order to see the revolution that Paul was effecting within Jewish circles (or satellites) we turn to the old rabbinic texts. The rabbis considered circumcision so important that they declared 6 that were it not for the blood of the covenant - that is to say, the blood which flowed from Abraham's penis when, at God's insistence, he circumcised himself - heaven and earth would not exist. The teaching of Judaism was that a child must still shed the blood of a covenant...even if he is born without a foreskin, and even if for some medical or other reason he is circumcised before the mystical eighth day. Even the angels are circumcised....

Converts to Judaism in the Roman period had to undergo circumcision....Strangely enough, in Palestine rules were more liberal than in the Diaspora, and there were Proselytes of the Gate, as they were known, who were allowed to 'become Jews' without circumcision. But such was not the general rule. It was widely believed that the admission of uncircumcised men into Jewish religious worship 'impeded the arrival of the Messiah'. While 'semi-converts' were allowed, those who observed the Sabbath and the dietary laws, they were to be regarded as heathens if after a twelve-month period they had not undergone circumcision. These stringent rules did not deter converts....
(A. N. Wilson, Paul The Mind Of The Apostle, Pimlico. 1998. ISBN 0-7126-6663-X p. 128)


So now we need to ask, how was circumcision practised then? What was the method used in those days to circumcise someone? This is explained in detail by A. N. Wilson who writes:

By Roman times, circumcision was done with a metal knife, and, if we believe that Paul did insist on Timothy undergoing circumcision, it is perhaps worth reminding ourselves of the three essential parts of the ritual, without which it is not complete. The first part is milah, the cutting away of the outer part of the foreskin. The is done with one sweep of the knife. The second part, periah, is the tearing of the inner lining of the foreskin which still adheres to the glans, so as to lay it wholly bare. This was (and is) done by the operator - the mohel, the professional circumciser - with his thumb-nail and index finger. The third and essential part of the ritual is mesisah, the sucking of blood from the wound. Since the nineteenth century, it has been permissible to finish this part of the ritual with a swab, but in all preceding centuries and certainly in the time of Paul it was necessary for the mohel to clean the wound by taking the penis into his mouth. In the case of a young adult male such as Timothy the bleeding would have been copious. 12 We can easily imagine why Paul's Gentile converts were unwilling to undergo the ritual; and, given the more liberal attitudes towards the Torah which had already begun to emerge among the Hellenists of Syrian Antioch, it is not surprising that the custom of circumcision should have started to wane. It took the extremism of Paul to think that the knife of circumcision would actually 'cut you . . . off from Christ'. But could any greater contrast be imagined between this belief and the traditional Jewish view that those who did not weild that knife delayed the coming of the Messiah?
(Ibid., p. 131)


In other words, Paul had to take the penis of Timothy in his mouth in order to circumcise him! Note also how strongly Paul opposes circumcision elsewhere in the New Testament:

2: Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.
3: Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4: Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace.
5: For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness.
6: For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
(Gal 5:2-6 American Standard Version)


However, when it came to saving himself from some trouble, Paul immediately had Timothy circumcised so that the Jews would not bother him further. Since we are aware of Paul's intense opposition to circumcision no matter what, surely his circumcision of Timothy indicates his hidden homosexual desires that he wished to fulfill at least once in his life time. That he had deep and intense desires to take a penis in his mouth, so when an oppurtunity came along, he decided to avail it.

AAF I am convinced he was gay are you?
 
Originally posted by skywalker
Did he have gay urges?

In the Book of Acts it says that Paul had Timothy circumcised:

1: And he came also to Derbe and to Lystra: and behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewess that believed; but his father was a Greek.
2: The same was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
3: Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and he took and circumcised him because of the Jews that were in those parts: for they all knew that his father was a Greek.
(Acts 16:3 American Standard Version)


Paul circumcised Timothy because he was facing stiff opposition from the Jews. Thus, in order to avoid getting into more troubles Paul had Timothy circumcised, even though Timothy's father happened to be a Greek Gentile. But why was the circumcision debate important for the Jews whom Paul wanted to pacify?

To some Gentile readers, this circumcision debate might seem peripheral. Some men are circumcised, others not - so what? In order to see the revolution that Paul was effecting within Jewish circles (or satellites) we turn to the old rabbinic texts. The rabbis considered circumcision so important that they declared 6 that were it not for the blood of the covenant - that is to say, the blood which flowed from Abraham's penis when, at God's insistence, he circumcised himself - heaven and earth would not exist. The teaching of Judaism was that a child must still shed the blood of a covenant...even if he is born without a foreskin, and even if for some medical or other reason he is circumcised before the mystical eighth day. Even the angels are circumcised....

Converts to Judaism in the Roman period had to undergo circumcision....Strangely enough, in Palestine rules were more liberal than in the Diaspora, and there were Proselytes of the Gate, as they were known, who were allowed to 'become Jews' without circumcision. But such was not the general rule. It was widely believed that the admission of uncircumcised men into Jewish religious worship 'impeded the arrival of the Messiah'. While 'semi-converts' were allowed, those who observed the Sabbath and the dietary laws, they were to be regarded as heathens if after a twelve-month period they had not undergone circumcision. These stringent rules did not deter converts....
(A. N. Wilson, Paul The Mind Of The Apostle, Pimlico. 1998. ISBN 0-7126-6663-X p. 128)


So now we need to ask, how was circumcision practised then? What was the method used in those days to circumcise someone? This is explained in detail by A. N. Wilson who writes:

By Roman times, circumcision was done with a metal knife, and, if we believe that Paul did insist on Timothy undergoing circumcision, it is perhaps worth reminding ourselves of the three essential parts of the ritual, without which it is not complete. The first part is milah, the cutting away of the outer part of the foreskin. The is done with one sweep of the knife. The second part, periah, is the tearing of the inner lining of the foreskin which still adheres to the glans, so as to lay it wholly bare. This was (and is) done by the operator - the mohel, the professional circumciser - with his thumb-nail and index finger. The third and essential part of the ritual is mesisah, the sucking of blood from the wound. Since the nineteenth century, it has been permissible to finish this part of the ritual with a swab, but in all preceding centuries and certainly in the time of Paul it was necessary for the mohel to clean the wound by taking the penis into his mouth. In the case of a young adult male such as Timothy the bleeding would have been copious. 12 We can easily imagine why Paul's Gentile converts were unwilling to undergo the ritual; and, given the more liberal attitudes towards the Torah which had already begun to emerge among the Hellenists of Syrian Antioch, it is not surprising that the custom of circumcision should have started to wane. It took the extremism of Paul to think that the knife of circumcision would actually 'cut you . . . off from Christ'. But could any greater contrast be imagined between this belief and the traditional Jewish view that those who did not weild that knife delayed the coming of the Messiah?
(Ibid., p. 131)


In other words, Paul had to take the penis of Timothy in his mouth in order to circumcise him! Note also how strongly Paul opposes circumcision elsewhere in the New Testament:

2: Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.
3: Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4: Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace.
5: For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness.
6: For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
(Gal 5:2-6 American Standard Version)


However, when it came to saving himself from some trouble, Paul immediately had Timothy circumcised so that the Jews would not bother him further. Since we are aware of Paul's intense opposition to circumcision no matter what, surely his circumcision of Timothy indicates his hidden homosexual desires that he wished to fulfill at least once in his life time. That he had deep and intense desires to take a penis in his mouth, so when an oppurtunity came along, he decided to avail it.

AAF I am convinced he was gay are you?
----------
M*W: Well it sure sounds like it! I started to buy that book. Does the book imply Paul as being gay or is this an surmation? Like I said before on the ritual sexual practices of the Essenes drinking each other's semen, there's a whole lot more about these characters than is known. You probably already know how I feel about Paul. Nothing surprises me about him and the religion he created.

I have a theory about circumcision. Before the times of the patriarchy a matriarchal civilization existed. I think that drawing blood from from the penis may have been vagina-envy. The patriarchy wanted to have the kind of power the matriarchal society had! Only women bleed, so the patriarchy decided that cutting their penis and drinking the blood gave them the power they desired. It's been around for several thousand years, but their system didn't work or our world wouldn't be the way it is.
 
Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
I have a theory about circumcision
As per your theory, men too should have monthly circumcision if they have to compete with women in a matriarchial society.

I don't have any theory but have an idea why circumcision came : To discourage mastarbation.!!

As for the other theory of Paul being Gay, i have serious doubt whether any Gay (closet or open or whatever) would suck a bloody penis.?? what for ?? Gay friends here might be able to clear the doubt.?!!
 
Re: Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by everneo
As per your theory, men too should have monthly circumcision if they have to compete with women in a matriarchial society.

I don't have any theory but have an idea why circumcision came : To discourage mastarbation.!!

As for the other theory of Paul being Gay, i have serious doubt whether any Gay (closet or open or whatever) would suck a bloody penis.?? what for ?? Gay friends here might be able to clear the doubt.?!!
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M*W: You know, I got to thinking (and that can be dangerous!). When I read your reply, I had a lightbulb go off in my head, and I visualized the Catholic Mass--"Jesus said, take this all of you and eat it, for it is my body which I gave up for you." "Take this all of you and drink it, for it is my blood that I shed for you." (or something to that effect). I don't think this was about his crucifixion at all! It was about his bloody circumcision! I can just see the orgy that must have gone on at the Last Supper! They were sucking each other's penises! Jesus gave up his foreskin not his life! WOW! This changes everything!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman

Jesus gave up his foreskin not his life! WOW! This changes everything!
Another theory.? Changes everything.? Is there any end for your fantasy.? :eek:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by everneo
Another theory.? Changes everything.? Is there any end for your fantasy.? :eek
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Every reality started out a fantasy.
 
Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by Randolfo
hey Slytalker, did you copy this site without attribution?

http://bismikaallahuma.org/Hadith/Exegesis/nursing.htm

to read most of the info, you have to go far down to the bottom of this site


well i got it in e mail but now since u mentioned it i see it on the web and now it will be is all over ther web, should be pubslished in libraries and christian schools and should be part of every sunday church, he was a damn gay. Admit it buddy. you don't mind do you?:D
 
Read this book and you will know more about what god told you about gays and how *your* god is related to gays.


Karen Armstrong's A History of God.
 
...[in circumcision it used to be] necessary for the mohel to clean the wound by taking the penis into his mouth.
Is this really true??? I find it quite hard to beleive, and I don't see how it would be relevant!
 
Originally posted by Mucker
Is this really true??? I find it quite hard to beleive, and I don't see how it would be relevant!
I don't know, but I have asked several rabbi's about that & expect an answer. I plan on senting that question to a mohel association & to BAR (Biblical Archeology Review). Let's see?
 
Re: Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by skywalker
should be pubslished in libraries and christian schools and should be part of every sunday church, he was a damn gay. Admit it buddy. you don't mind do you?:D
your buddies maybe, as to Sunday schools & churches, well, I would like to find out if its true first, sounds very fishy, do you believe things without checking first?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by Randolfo
your buddies maybe, as to Sunday schools & churches, well, I would like to find out if its true first, sounds very fishy, do you believe things without checking first?

well kido, you sure do believe things without checking. Like you believed every thing PAUL said and now you all made a fake religion out of it. Do you see how easy it is to fool you ............ paul said it and you believe it. Pretty simple eh?:D
 
Hey, fellas/comrades this is the most astonishing thought-line I have seen in a long time.

Firstly you correctly quoted from the scriptures about Paul having Timothy circumcised so as not to alinate him from the Jews.
The young guy Timothy was a messenger who mostly ministered to Jews and Paul knew the jews won't pay attention to the message unless Timothy underwent the ritual cutting. This scenario is same to descendants of abraham: the arabs and jews. By circumcising Timothy, Paul did not break any biblical law although Paul later contended that circumcision nor
un-ircumcision profits nothing ; as long as ones heart is right with God.

We are not told that Paul personally cut Timothy. It says he had timothy circumcised which implies he most probably had someone(a proffesiona cutter) do it. In the ancient society not just anybody coul circumcise anyone.The societies had guyz to perform the ritual.

In jewish culture it is sinful to drink blood.. Even the blood of animals was not to be drank; what about human blood?

I strongly feel comrade you are trying to justify homosexul acts.The same book you quoted declares "It is an abomination for a man to sleep with another man as a man does with a woman".
Even Islam in the Holy Quran has many verses warning of homosexual conduct.( I could refer you to the verses in the english version of the koran) Islam talks of everlasting damnation in the lake of fire for homosexuals.

Do not be deceived, the ungodly shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven; neither the sexually immoral.
Deliverance from homosexuality is available through the blood of Jesus when you repent in the name of Jesus.
Paul had a great presence of the holy spirit; the demons of homosexuality could not even come near him.


There is no other name given to mankind for salvation but the name of Jesus. I know former homosexuals who found deliverance in the Lord Jesus(He is real!)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

One day you will appear on the judgemnt seat of Jesus christ and you will beg but it will be too late!!
Hating and fighting Jesus is choosing satan and the lake of fire.
Now you don't believe; but when people get there they do.

Medicine woman Jesus is the only one who can deliver you from your sins e.g anger/fits of rage.

No matter how hard you fight him Jesus will never give up on you as long as you are still living.
As a catholic you were never saved thus you could not personally know Jesus. He is Love and true peace.

Paul fought Jesus more than you medicine woman. he killed christians and had them arrested all over the world. But on the road to Damascus, The Great Light shown on him and Paul became a christian.
One day before it is late may Jesus have mercy to deliver you, medicine woman. I will keep praying for you.

Jesus saves, hallelujah!!
 
We are not told that Paul personally cut Timothy. It says he had timothy circumcised which implies he most probably had someone(a proffesiona cutter) do it. In the ancient society not just anybody coul circumcise anyone.The societies had guyz to perform the ritual.

Thank you and you should be applauded. That is the first bright idea I read in the whole thread.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by tomasito
One day you will appear on the judgemnt seat of Jesus christ and you will beg but it will be too late!! Hating and fighting Jesus is choosing satan and the lake of fire. Now you don't believe; but when people get there they do.
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M*W: I suggest you go back to school and learn to read my posts. Your reading comprehension is poor. I do not hate Jesus, and I have never stated such nor do I hate Tom Sawyer or Hester Prynne. You are a fanatic, so your perception of anyone who does not believe as you, you accuse of choosing satan! With you fanatics, its either black or white. You are not able to see the One Spirit of God because you are BLINDED by Paul's myth of Jesus! YOU are the one who has rejected God for an ancient made-up story of yet another demigod-savior. If Jesus was/is a real person, and let's just hypothetically say he could be the Messiah, he would be very disappointed in you and your blind faith.
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Medicine woman Jesus is the only one who can deliver you from your sins e.g anger/fits of rage.
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M*W: And what about you trying to cram your religion down my throat? You had better NOT send me anymore PMs!
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No matter how hard you fight him Jesus will never give up on you as long as you are still living. As a catholic you were never saved thus you could not personally know Jesus. He is Love and true peace.
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M*W: I don't waste my time "fighting Jesus." Neither do I waste my time fighting Hercules or Zeus. Who are YOU to say a Catholic is not saved. You don't know what is in the heart of another person. You're a typical judgmental Christian. I probably know more about Jesus than you do. I spent many years teaching catechism to adults and teenagers. I believed the myth for a long time. Like many others are doing today, I realized it was just a myth. Take a look at the statistics worldwide of Christianity in its decline. You don't know Jesus. All you know is the myth. Grow up.
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Paul fought Jesus more than you medicine woman. he killed christians and had them arrested all over the world. But on the road to Damascus, The Great Light shown on him and Paul became a christian.
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M*W: Nowhere have you read that I was "fighting Jesus!" You made this up in your own sick brainwashed mind. It is the whole personality of Paul I find despicable. What you believe was created by Paul, not Jesus! What happened to Paul on the perverbial road was he had an epilepsy attack, fell off his horse, hit his head on a rock, and voila... he got the idea of creating a mythic demigod-savior to cash in on. There had only been about 15 earlier demigod-saviors that Paul plagarized.
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One day before it is late may Jesus have mercy to deliver you, medicine woman. I will keep praying for you.

Jesus saves, hallelujah!!
----------
M*W: I don't want any prayers on my behalf to your mythological demigod-savior. You are the one who is lost, not me.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Was Paul Gay?

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
[B It is the whole personality of Paul I find despicable. What you believe was created by Paul, not Jesus! What happened to Paul on the perverbial road was he had an epilepsy attack, fell off his horse, hit his head on a rock, and voila... he got the idea of creating a mythic demigod-savior to cash in on. [/B]
Hmmm? you believe this about Paul, what about your hero Mohammad? Did he create a new religion from his epilesy? or does only Paul qualify for your wrath & scorn?
 
Originally posted by Quigly
Thank you and you should be applauded. That is the first bright idea I read in the whole thread.


***** Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and he took and circumcised him because of the Jews that were in those parts: for they all knew that his father was a Greek.
(Acts 16:3 American Standard Version)*****


yes very bright . Hey rando I don' think Mohammad (saw) is MW's hero but he is Michael A Hart's hero indeed.

In his book "The 100 Most Influential Persons In History", Michael H. Hart surprised his readers by choosing Mohammed (PBUH) to lead the list. He said, "He was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels." Hart's testimony tells us about the tremendous effect of Mohammed on the world we live in. Such a testimony must stir our efforts not only to discover the characteristic standard of the Prophet, but also to take that great man and his legacy into the main stream of our life in its totality to enhance and grace our life. Such a legacy does guarantee a real restoration for the collapsing world of today. I was very encouraged by the testimony of Mr. Hart to take a journey through my books to try to compile as much as I could of the sayings of those who had found Islam and the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) as the ideal and the most effective and improved way of life.


or the following two people??


George Bernard Shaw:
"If a man like Mohammed were to assume the leadership of the modern world, He would succeed in solving its problems that would bring it much needed peace and happiness."

Encyclopedia Britannica:
"Mohammed was the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities."


So Rando why do you all southern baptist hates Catholics? W

What did they do to you?
 
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