Agreed. Also manufacturers commonly put multiple labels on the same product, which are then marketed at many price points. The price differences can be obscene. I used to work at a fish company that canned crab meat. The same can sold for between $0.25 (no-name) and $2.50 for the Kraft brand. I’ve seen the exact same shirt except for the label selling for $8 at K-Mart versus $49 at Izod. Inferior quality rarely seems an issue.
Wal-Mart And The Decline Of Society
- Thread starter goofyfish
- Start date
Nasor said:
Yes, you can find major brands at Walmart, but they are interspersed with many cheaper, lower quality items that appeal to the price conscioussness that brings most people there in the first place.
They can afford to have lower prices on, say, a Sony TV (may even lose money on it as a "loss leader") but when the similarly-featured but much lower-quality POS Sanyo or Apex or Funai may be 1/2 as much or even less, most people who shop at Walmart would likely buy the cheaper brand. Not only is this price cheaper, there is a higher markup for Walmart. (So, if they can sell a TV that cheap AND make a higher profit, just how cheaply made IS the thing in the first place?) Then, 18 months later, when it's out of warranty and the tube is blown, they're faced with either spending $175 to fix this $199 TV, or buying another one. Most would just buy a new one. So, in 18 months, they've spent $400 on two POS TVs. The second of which will most likely go bad again. Or, they wise up and realize they should have spent the extra $200 in the first place and end up, in essence, paying $600 for the Sony they could have bought for $400 in the first place.
It’s still better to have more choices. Let the buyer decide. I stopped buying Sony products after having so many of them break. The TV repairman told me that Sony uses rock-bottom cheap parts. Cost me $150 for a tiny blown capacitor. You can’t trust name brands either.
True. A good example in my business is the Nikon FM-10 SLR camera. It's a Nikon, right? It's what all the pros use, so it must be good, right? Well, this camera is actually made by Cosina, a low-end manufatcurer in Asia that makes the exact same camera for Olympus, Vivitar and Ricoh, among others. It's not complete junk, but it is nowhere near the quality that Nikon has been known for over the last 40 or so years. Cosina sells the camera and Nikon or whomever puts their name on it. It's a cheap and easy way for a company to pick up a new product to compete in a specific market without having to invest in R&D or manufacturing expenses. In this case, Nikon saw that Pentax was disco'ing the K1000 all manual camera and saw a chance to pounce on that market. The only other all manual camera they had in the line at that time was the FM-2, which retailed for $500+....certainly not in the same market as the $200 K-1000.
So, this brings up the question .... is the Sony you buy at Wallyworld the same as the one you buy at the small, local shop?
So, this brings up the question .... is the Sony you buy at Wallyworld the same as the one you buy at the small, local shop?
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Wal-Mart has been around for how many years now? If their low-priced products are so inferior that the poor quality outweighs the savings, then presumably people would stop buying them. It appears that low prices are the number-one concern for most consumers, more important than high quality products, brand names, or customer service. You could argue that it's foolish for consumers to feel this way, but people have the right to make foolish purchasing decisions if they want to. You might think that it’s worth the extra $40 to get a Sony DVD player rather than a Brand Z DVD player, but other people evidently disagree.
kmguru
Staff member
Wal-Mart does not sell 3 levels of products. That is good, better and best. They sell products that are just good enough and the price to match. There is nothing wrong with that? When they drive out their competitors who used to sell good, better and best, because there are less number of people who buy the other two groups (simple economics) - the result is a society of "just good enough" people.
So, the society rather than aspiring to be the best you can be - it will be just good enough. It does not stop there. Many years down the road, that just good enough becomes the standard and then everything goes downhill from there. Why?
It is the Wal-Mart policy that the product they sell has to be cheaper for them to buy than the previous year. Which means, second year, the engineers will try to lower the design standards to save money so that they can pass on that to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart does pass some of that to the consumers. So, imagine, ten years down the road - the product is designed so that it will barely hold up. And that is the problem - big time.
So, as mediocrity creeps in the society, soon we must get rid of Better and Best from our lexicon. And if that does not decline a society fast - then some one is on a happy pill.
(Check out the story of Vlassic pickle and how Wal-Mart drove them to bankcrupty without meaning to, on the net)
So, the society rather than aspiring to be the best you can be - it will be just good enough. It does not stop there. Many years down the road, that just good enough becomes the standard and then everything goes downhill from there. Why?
It is the Wal-Mart policy that the product they sell has to be cheaper for them to buy than the previous year. Which means, second year, the engineers will try to lower the design standards to save money so that they can pass on that to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart does pass some of that to the consumers. So, imagine, ten years down the road - the product is designed so that it will barely hold up. And that is the problem - big time.
So, as mediocrity creeps in the society, soon we must get rid of Better and Best from our lexicon. And if that does not decline a society fast - then some one is on a happy pill.
(Check out the story of Vlassic pickle and how Wal-Mart drove them to bankcrupty without meaning to, on the net)
Good point, kmguru. Say you are a manufacturer of product X and your sales are so-so, and have been on the decline or hovering at so-so for the last few years. You have had a decent quality product of a slightly higher price than your competitor. Well, your competitor sells big time at Walmart. Walmart comes a' courtin and says, "We'd like to sell your product, but it's way too pricey. If you can get the price down, we will buy 500,000 units this year. If not, no deal." Torn between staying the course and continuing losing sales, you deal with Walmart. How do you get the cost down so you can keep a decent margin? Cut corners. Use plastic where you used to use metal. Use Scotch tape to hold your flex circuits in place instead of metal facets. Use 5 bolts where you used to use 8. .... You get the point. Same brand, similar model to last year's, just much lower in quality. But now they can sell 500,000 units to Walmart at $20 profit each instead of 45,000 units at $60 profit. Walmart wins, you win, the consumer gets a steady stream of crapola that is forever lowering our standards of what is good quality.
I disagree that wal-mart sells inferior goods. The main reason that wal-mart is so much cheaper is not that wal-mart sells inferior goods, but because wal-mart is very good at slashing overhead and taking advantage of economies of scale. True, wal-mart has a very low-class atmosphere, but they sell exactly the same products as other, more expensive stores. I can get a nice Sony DVD player at wal-mart for $80 dollars, or the same DVD player from Circuit City or Sears for $110 dollars. Is saving $30 worth having to deal with annoying crowds and ignorant sales people? Yes, in my opinion. You can shop somewhere else if you want, but you'll probably just end up paying more for exactly the same product.
Actually the most common solutions are:chunkylover58 said:
1) Move production to a country where you pay the workers $1.50/hour
2) Accept much smaller marginal profits on your sale to wal-mart
You're all assuming just assuming that wal-mart sells crap because they have low prices and you don’t like them. If you actually look into it, you'll see that wal-mart usually creates low prices by forcing suppliers to export jobs to countries with cheap labor and by bullying suppliers into accepting very low profits on their wholesale transactions with wal-mart. That's the real problem with wal-mart: they have sped up the exodus of blue-collar jobs out of the united states and into countries like India and Malaysia.
So, cheap labor by semi-skilled workers at sub-par facilities in countries with lower industrial standards produces a product just as good as when it was made by skilled workers being paid a fair wage?
Agreed about the way Wal-Mart bastardizes the market, but disagree with the notion that Wal-Mart isn't necessarily selling an inferior product under a product name "assumed" to be reputable.
I knew when Lowe's got John Deere to whore themselves out and start producing those cheap-ass imitation JD's that all hope was lost.
Who can say for sure that the "Sorny" you buy at WM is really a Sony?
"Put it in H.........."
I knew when Lowe's got John Deere to whore themselves out and start producing those cheap-ass imitation JD's that all hope was lost.
Who can say for sure that the "Sorny" you buy at WM is really a Sony?
"Put it in H.........."
kmguru
Staff member
Think nonlinear...think temporal (time domain)...According to National Science Foundation:
A better understanding of this historical shift towards increasing connections and interdependencies among heterogeneous factors and how to harness their potential in service to society is necessary. New knowledge is needed to improve the design, use, behavior, and stability of these widely distributed structures and processes for economic prosperity and a vibrant civil society.
NSF believes there is a problem (not specific to Wal-Mart, but general interdependencies in economic activities) so much so that they have a solicitation ref: NSF 04-012 with $90 million in the kitty.
A better understanding of this historical shift towards increasing connections and interdependencies among heterogeneous factors and how to harness their potential in service to society is necessary. New knowledge is needed to improve the design, use, behavior, and stability of these widely distributed structures and processes for economic prosperity and a vibrant civil society.
NSF believes there is a problem (not specific to Wal-Mart, but general interdependencies in economic activities) so much so that they have a solicitation ref: NSF 04-012 with $90 million in the kitty.
Most assembly-line work can be done equally well by pretty much anyone with a little basic on-the-job training. It doesn't matter whether you're an American with a high school degree or a Malaysian with little education. The 'lower industrial standards' don't really come into it. The industrial standards are set at each individual manufacturing plant. It's not any harder to build and run a modern factory in a third-world country than in the West. Actually it's usually easier, because the pollution laws in third-world countries are generally much less restrictive than in more modern countries.chunkylover58 said:
Purchase a Fender Stratocaster guitar made in the US, then one made in Mexico out of the same materials as the the US ones, only made right across the border, and then the Asian-made model. You will see a considerable drop off in quality of construction from one to the next. Night and day. The Asian Strat wil cost you $99. The USA, about $800. Mexican, about $400. They're all Fender Stratocasters, however one is a fine instrument that will last a lifetime, one is a serviceable playing instrument that will do a good job for you, the other will have a hard time staying in tune and will sound like crap. But people buy the Asian models all the time because, "Hey, it's a Strat. Jimi played a Strat. Strats rule and it's only 99 bucks? It looks EXACTLY like that one that's $800. Why should I spend that much when it's the same thing?" Then it can't hold its tune and the frets cut their fingers up and they give up playing the thing and waste $99. That model exists for the Walmart mentality shoppers who don't know the difference between good quality and bad and will make all purchasing decisions based solely on price. These are people who make no mental investment in their shopping decisions.
goofyfish said:
Very nice thread goofy.
Not only is the mart chain the problem, the problem is much deeper than that. The problem is in corporations that have literally killed the people's spirits, the neighborhoods, and mamas and papas stores and livelihood. It has transformed America from proud hard working owners to lazy enslaved consumers who are only interested in hit and run profit and not reputation building.
When I hire a painter, I find myself relying on a corporation that hires sub talented mediocres who are painting because they can do nothing else. They little painter who owns nothing and is not invested by any means in the firm, doesn't give a crap about the reputation of the firm and customers service is on the decline.
America is no longer for the people, but belongs to the corporations, and we all are slave to the corporations.
chunky said:
The leaving of the good jobs doesn't relate - that's a different business decision. Your life is much more comfortable than it would have been fifty years ago.
