Wal-Mart And The Decline Of Society

goofyfish

goofyfish

Analog By Birth, Digital By Design
Valued Senior Member
Well, let's see… (stretching fingers out)

My pet theory is that somehow, these chains greatly contribute to the decline of American society. Naturally, I have no proof for this, just the disgust that they infuse me with gave rise to this thought. American society declines in strength and vigor, thus providing an opportunity for bacteria such as E. walmarti, E. kmarti, to move in, multiply, and gradually sap the strength of the American body politic.

The “-Mart” (i.e. Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc.) phenomenon can be seen as an entrenching of an increasingly more pervasive consumerism set of values within our society, where possessions and display of possessions become shorthand for showing other members of society that you are a productive, hardworking, contributing member of society. This is in addition to showing by the time of possession displayed that you are cognizant of the fashions and fads of the society - that you play by the rules and are subject to the whimsical authority of society.

This is reinforced by mass marketing, low prices, and endless, mind-numbing advertisements that pound home the fact that the only way to prove that you are a successful human being (and thus a person who deserves love) is to acquire all the possessions that fall into the current approved category. The different -Marts have plugged into that brainwashed desire and become popular because they offer an easy, palatable answer to those too frightened, too cowardly, too stupid, or too lazy to objectively consider the consequences of such a materialistic, shallow, and altogether self-destructive set of values.



...or it could just be because they sell tacky, plastic stuff, and on a busy day, the store is packed with unwashed masses (Walmartians, as we call ‘em around here) that I'd rather not be associated with.

Peace.
 
goofyfish ...

I'm doing my part prevent further decline!

That's why I prefer to shop at Ikea, Arhaus, Tiffany's, the Metropolitan
Museum Gift Shop, or Harry Rosen's ... And even then by catalog if at all
possible. The unwashed masses and/or neuvo-riche are everywhere
nowdays.

Take care ;)
 
Goofyfish,

In my pessimistic moments, I feel that American culture is in a general process of decay. My reading of Morris Berman's, The Twilight of American Culture for example, certainly did nothing to reduce such a pessimisim. If I dwell on the subject long enough, I'm bound to work myself into a funk.

Still, the plebeians have always been among us. They filled Romanesque stadiums to witness bloody spectacles, as they today fill Walmart and Gucci stores alike to purchase trinkets and baubles. Wealth does not produce culture anymore than does a lack of wealth inhibit it. A noble culture may not be purchased, nor is it conferred along with a university degree. We are not born with it, nor may it be inherited.

As much as I think myself superior to the masses, I think myself equally inferior to the best of men. Perhaps Morris Berman had this in mind when he wrote, "Civilization is impossible without a hierarchy of quality." Ah, quality. That's it. That's the essence we're searching for.

Men who aspire to lead inexorable lives of quality have always been in the minority, though I have an idea that their proportion has remained roughly constant throughout the history of civilization. These men are the "keepers of the flame."

Goofyfish, Plato wrote metaphorically that some men are made of gold, others are made of silver, and still others of brass. It would be a mistake to let ourselves be defined by the men of brass, despite their ubiquity or their raucous nature. The quality of our culture is rightfully, though more quietly, defined by men of gold.

Michael
 
Last edited:
Nice thread..
I have to agree with you all.. To add to this topic, I was born in a Soviet Union - certainly much different than capitalism that surrounds me now. Although it collapsed when I was very young, I noticed some changes in the process of change from the Soviet system.
Lithuania left soviet union 10 years ago. When we left, most businesses were starting to get privatised. The result of that was a LOT of small businesses. Most of them very different from each other. Of course, some people started getting richer, more successful, and chain stores appeared with time. Still it was great to be able to go into town and see plenty of small shops, rather than big ordinary chain stores, I see here in UK.
You still do have choices though - quality is expensive though. I was amazed that people in UK were paying the same amount for cheap bread as in Lithuania. The quality of bread sold here was unimaginable in Lithuania though. I am sure the food quality in Lithuania will go down with time due to cost saving measures.
I believe that anybody can have a sense of quality, the only problem is most people don't really care. They listen to Spice girls, Backstreet boys, eat 30p bread, are amazed by movies like "Titanic". What would you respect them for?
Do you still really think you can respect everybody? I gave up on this idea already..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
My pet theory is that somehow, these chains greatly contribute to the decline of American society.
Click to expand...

Had this comments been made 20 years ago, I would have agreed with you. Today, the situation is different. We are on the verge of a paradigm shift where change is in flux.

During seventies, Kodak created cheap cameras (Instamatics). I noticed that people spent 10 times more money in developing crap pictures taken with a cheap camera rather than buying a decent 35 mm camera. As the Japanese started marketing quality cameras ro Americans, everybody woke up from cheap thrills.

The landscape is changing even though it may not be obvious at the moment. The Walmarts will function similar to the 7-11s while new type of stores will emerge for specialized service. As our employment structure changes - so will the society.
 
Last edited:
*wraps his arms around his crappy white bread with no flavor*

Do what you want, but leave my wonderbread alone!!

:>
 
I should bring up a very interesting observation in my home town.

This is a college town with two universities. 3 years ago there was a small JC Penney store. Except for mail order, it did not do too well. Everytime I wanted to buy something, they did not have it or ran out just before I walked in the door. Finally the store closed for good. A new store came in named Goody. I hoped Goody does not close for good.

But Goody is doing very well. They have clothes/products people wanted to buy and so it continued.
 
Originally posted by ndrs

I believe that anybody can have a sense of quality, the only problem is most people don't really care. They listen to Spice girls, Backstreet boys, eat 30p bread, are amazed by movies like "Titanic". What would you respect them for?
Do you still really think you can respect everybody? I gave up on this idea already..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Click to expand...
ndrs, you took the words out of my mouth. Apparently those who have lived all their lives in these connditions don't know what is good and what is quality any more. I wana throw out when smone says tht N'Sync and all the rest of those "sugarbands" are cool.

==============
|:::METAL RULZ:::|:D
==============
 
Last edited:
Hah, they do here...
I had to work here in a few factories once upon a time (reeaalll bad work...) + they used to put the local town radio on all the time - the only things they played was music like that.
Plus, if you don't live in a good city (like London maybe), you wouldn't get a radio station playing decent music at all.
I end up listening to www.bombasticradio.com or www.somafm.com at 24kbs :( :( :(
 
I have always had a problem with x-mart's predatory business practices. It has been played time and again across the American towns and cities.

A new x-mart opens in a town and the first thing they do is begin to price mom and pop stores out of the market. After the job is done and they are the only game in town, the prices go up. They stay up after that, unless one of the competitors move into town. The first thing to do is to place every road block into place they can including trying to get the populace on their side. After the competitor's store opens you see a price plunge, trying to starve the new business into moving out of the area. If it works, prices go back to the original high places they were while the remaining store recoups their losses and continues to reap their profits. If it does not work then they will go up some and you will see just how much they did overcharge you. Most of the customers think that it is a windfall but they never consider what happened to that local store on the corner they could walk to instead of having to drive across town to get to the chain.

Most mom and pop stores are nice in the fact that if you need help you get it. In the chains it is an act of congress to get help. Ever notice that in the chain stores that there are all those unused registers just standing there while you are forced to wait in long lines for the few that are in use? You should, you pay for them to set there unused as you accept the business practices employed.

One of the silliest things is that one of the x-marts is known for their ads on slicing product prices. Do you really believe that? Yes, they have a few savings. The come on's as they are known to get you in the store. The rest of the prices make up for the little that is lost as you get other things you need while you are there.

This method of business has lead to a decline in tax income, jobs, consumer choices on products, and general service expectations by the consumer simply because the chain store decrees how they will run the business and you, the consumer have little choice after they are the only game in town. That is decline on all fronts...
 
When I lived in Missouri back in the late 1970's, I worked with an engineer from Arkansas. He told me that his father owned a small store back in his home town until this outfit called Walmart came in and drove his father out of business and into depression. Anyway, Steve made me promise never to shop at a Walmart. Of course I'd never before heard of Walmart, but I promised him anyway. I've never been tempted to break my promise to him.

I buy my toothpaste in a small family owned store where they greet me by my first name. It doesn't bother me that I pay twenty five cents or so, more for the tube.

If only we would quit feeding it, this x-mart cancer would die on it's own. They suck the life out of the downtown business district wherever they spring up.

Michael
 
I beg to differ wet1

You are looking at the symptom and not the cause. Equilibrium comes when people understand the dynamics and act upon it to a new level. Blaming x-mart is like muslims blaming America for all their troubles. To balance x-mart, here is what has to happen.

Mom and pop stores should join an independent retailers association (like IGA) which gives them some clout as to the size of buying that almost equalizes x-mart advantage. They can talk to the supplier/manufacturer who hate x-mart as much as anybody else. Because x-mart squeezes them too. On top of that, take ot the middle man. Here in USA, we have a tradition of layers of middleman that take a piece of the profit by just being there. Since x-mart cut them out, why cannt small stores.

The point is, by creating a new framework with internet, advanced supply chain and working with the manufacturers directly in a group - we can bring back the mom and pops too.

We also have a tradition of Labor Unions. The SBAs and small stores can learn from it too. It is working smart in the information age. x-mart does not have computers from heaven nor superman running their logistics. It is not difficult to compete them at that level. x-mart has zero customer relationship. How about the rest of the stores?

The truth is, these mom and pop stores do not wish to help anybody than may be 1% of their base. I live in a small town. When we bought our Neptune Washer & Dryer, we first went to a local pop store. He not only wanted to charge the full retail price but wanted to charge the delivery fee ($30) & installation fee of $80 too. The installation consists of attaching the 220 volt cord to the dryer and attaching the drain hose to the washer. Needless to say, I shopped around and ended up at Sears.

The Ni-Cad battery in my Waterpik died after 2 years (Ni-Cads die over time). I looked for a replacement. The factory wanted to charge me $7.50. I found an authorized distributor in Shreveport. I asked if they have it in stock. He said he did and that it will cost $9.00. I thought what the heck, I will pick it up and use it immidiately. When I got there, he charged me $18.00 saying there are two baterries soldered together that looks like one.

If this is the kind of service I get from the Mom & Pops - no thanks. I would rather shop at x-mart or Internet or Costco wholesale.
 
As usual you bring valid points to the topic, kmguru.

Yes, I have known of such practices and when I run into them, I usually tell them what I think and go elsewhere. A good case in point is computer parts. Most computer stores have a markup that is out of this world. You pay dearly for what you get. X-marts are right in there when it comes to that. I go to a “we make them to order store” to buy my parts. The savings are ridiculous over what you would pay in a store. I do not need $40 to $80 dollars worth of cardboard and hidden costs. Give me what I need and let me go. If you need help they will gladly do that, if you need advice it is there at no extra cost except that you ask for it. Of course they will install said parts at a charge if you so wish.

I arrived at this store because of lack of service, lack of advice, the steep cost of purchasing their product, and general ignorance and apathy to my needs as a customer from the chains. My dollar is a vote and I do not vote for what I do not believe in. If I find a mom and pop that thinks it is all right to gouge the customer then I go elsewhere. They do not have a lock on products or services and shopping around usually resolves the problem. Plus, unlike a lot of folks, I have access to larger markets when needed, depending on the availability of time. I use that to satisfy the needs of service and parts that I require with no need to shop the chains to do it. If that is backward or old timey, then I am certainly guilty of shopping my conscience.
 
Here is what happened two years ago to me. I think I have posted this on this forum then. As I said before, I live in a small college town. The local newspaper published a letter from a local citizen bitching about how people dont shop locally and go to the nearest city to shop thereby driving the mom and pop shops out of business. Well, I replied that if the local shops want our money, they have to provide better customer service for our hard erned money. That sparked a buzz in town and a radio program and a campaign "shop this town first". As town gossip have it, most people took my side. The campaign created awareness and some activity, but petered out in a very short time.

Why? Because to give you just one example: when I was in this local college 30 years ago, we had a brand spanking large screen movie theater and two older theaters, not to mention a drive-in for us college boys and girls. In fact my first date with Mrs. was in that theater. Two years ago, for nostalgic sake, we went to see a movie. What we found was appalling. The luxurious reclining-seats were all torn, the floor was all sticky and urine smell everywhere. We met the night manager. He said, the owner does not want to do any improvements but because he had a 30 year contract to get the first releases, we were able to see them. Needless to say the theater closed down 6 months later.

I can give you a lot of examples since I am in this small town off and on for the last 30 years. It all boils down to customer service. The other day, I needed two books. Checked the net and found Barnesnoble had the best price and free shipping. While one book showed that it was not in stock, I got the email that both were shipped the same day. Now, that is customer service.

My daughter got a call from one of the chain stores (not the x-mart) Thursday that they are having a managers special sale on Friday for their best customers with a heavy discount. Now that is service. So there is still room for everyone, specially people with good customer service.....
 
wet1 said:
A new x-mart opens in a town and the first thing they do is begin to price mom and pop stores out of the market. After the job is done and they are the only game in town, the prices go up.
Click to expand...
You're wrong about this. While it's true that small shops are often driven out of business by Wal-Marts lower prices, Wal-Mart does not raise prices once the competition has been driven out. Prices are the same at all Wal-Mart stores everywhere, and economies of scale ensure that they will almost always be able to offer better prices than smaller competitors. What you describe is called 'product dumping,' and is illegal. If Wal-Mart intentionally sold products at prices far below market value in an effort to destroy competition before raising prices, they would be engaging in illegal anti-competitive behavior. Fortunately they don't do this.

The bottom line is that as much as people talk about the importance of customer service, most people prefer low prices to good service.
 
Since the start of this thread, a lot has changed the way Wal-Mart does business. As the world's biggest corporation, WM does adhere to the law of the land. At the same time, since it sells to the common denominator - there is no variation due to that efficient use of the stores and hence the society is pushed to a common base by WM.

People prefer low prices only when you know what you are buying - like commodity items. Service means asking questions, comparing products and all the activities in the decision process. People prefer low prices but not to the exclusion of good service.

In my neck of the woods, Albertson could not compete with the Wal-Mart supercenter and closed down. Let us see what I missed:

Nishiki Rice
Jasmin Rice
Leechi
Crab Salad
Sweet Oranges
Good quality Zuchini and other vegetables
Good Deli stuff
Premium bread, cakes and icecream
Premium Produce variety
Certain Arizona tea stuff
And a whole lot more
 
Low prices versus good service is one thing, but it's an entirely different thing when the issue is saving a little money on cheap crap versus spending a little more on something that will last longer. I saw Clark Howard, the penny-pinching, money saving "guru" talk about how he buys the $8 shirts on sale at Walmart or Sam's Club...Why pay $30 for the "same" shirt at another store. Look how much money I'm saving!!!! Well, the reason is, it's not the "same" shirt at the other store. It's a shirt made with the best quality textiles available to the manufacturer, with higher quality manufacturing standards. The cheapie ones may be made by the same company or a subsidiary of said company, but of the lower quality materials not suitable for their top-of-the-line products. The manufacturers are brow-beaten into providing a lower priced product, so the compensate by offering a lower quality product. This is how they can be sold so cheaply to Wallyworld and the like. Low bids made on low quality materials, with cheap labor. So, you pay $8 for the cheap, sweatshop shirt, and it fades and shrinks and develops holes after 3 washings. So, you go buy another one. After 6 more wearings and washings (2 more shirts), you've spent $32 on what is essentially the same shirt. Why not buy the $30 LL Bean or Eddie Bauer shirt and have it last for years? Then, when it does happen to get mangled or holey or whatever, take advantage of those companies' lifetime warranties.

The saying goes, a poor man can only afford a rich man's coat. Spend more for high quality now, and have it last 10 times as long. In the long run, you save money buying the best in the first place, and only have to buy it once. Walmart and its "sell by price" philosophy has made many of us forget this very simple economic principle. So, we have become cheap and price oriented, and we have landfills and dumps filled with crap that fell apart after two uses, and was so inexpensive to replace that no one would bother having it repaired.
 
Last edited:
It's true that one has to consider quality when deciding whether or not a good is worth its asking price, but it's wrong to say that Wal-Mart only sells cheap crap. Many (most?) of the products sold in Wal-Mart are exactly the same – same manufacturer, same box, same everything – as the products sold at 'higher-class' stores. Wal-Mart is simply able to sell them for less because you get better deals when you purchase things a billion at a time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top