Vegetarian yes or no?

[laladopi]

Meat, dairy and poultry proteins, yes, and fats, especially saturated fats. AND cholesterol.

You mention vegetables and fruit, but neglected to mention legumes, nuts, seeds, etc. The latter are high in both protein and health-enhancing oils.

Yes that's true but the majority of protein and calories shouldn't just be from nuts, seeds, legumes.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I was not talking to you

And my apology was not to you.

Well that’s too bad because I’m talking to you. You have an odious history of offering crackpot (and sometimes downright dangerous) medical advice in your 28,000+ posts. I consider most of what you post as trolling. So, I would advise you to be careful and reference your claims otherwise you will find yourself moderated.

Also, learn to read what I wrote first.

What you wrote was not referenced. You simply put some text into a quotation box. So at the moment what you wrote still constitutes nothing more than your opinion. Please give me a reference(s). You’ve obviously copied that text from somewhere.

 

[draqon]

find it yourself, Hercules_Rockfeller.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

find it yourself, Hercules_Rockfeller.

* * * * NOTE FROM A MODERATOR * * * *

Draq, my man: That is not how science works and that is not how this forum works. If someone challenges you to provide evidence for an assertion, you are obliged to provide it. That is the scientific method in action.

This is not a graduate seminar so you don't have to hand in your own original research or even someone else's lab notes. But you do have to at least give us a reference that we can verify for ourselves. People misquote things out of context all the time. It isn't even nefarious, they just don't realize what they've done because of their own mindset.

So be a good chap and please provide the requested material, okay? It's the rules and we do our best to enforce the rules.

 

[Absane]

You do not get much fat from vegetables or fruit.

 

[John Connellan]

An idiot ?

I wouldn't consider myself more idiotic than all of those vegetarians out there

 

[Enmos]

I wouldn't consider myself more idiotic than all of those vegetarians out there

But to be fair, they make sure they get all their vitamins and minerals.
I'm pretty sure an all meat diet is unhealthy.

 

[Orleander]

But to be fair, they make sure they get all their vitamins and minerals.
I'm pretty sure an all meat diet is unhealthy.

Probably why carnivores eat the stomach content of the herbivores they have killed.

 

[Enmos]

Probably why carnivores eat the stomach content of the herbivores they have killed.

Yup. Good one Orly

 

[John Connellan]

But to be fair, they make sure they get all their vitamins and minerals.
I'm pretty sure an all meat diet is unhealthy.

They make sure they get their vitamins because they have to - unlike the so-called meatatarians who get plenty of fat-soluble vitamins naturally. The only big worry for me is fibre which is probably not nearly enough in my diet as it would be in a vegetarians or an omnivorous diet. I sometimes take fibre supplements

 

[Enmos]

They make sure they get their vitamins because they have to - unlike the so-called meatatarians who get plenty of fat-soluble vitamins naturally. The only big worry for me is fibre which is probably not nearly enough in my diet as it would be in a vegetarians or an omnivorous diet. I sometimes take fibre supplements

Well, I strongly urge you to do some research on all meat diets. It leads to malnutrition and eventually, if maintained, even death. I'm not kidding.
Eskimo's have a so-called all meat diet but they eat every part of the animal (parts that you surely do not eat) as well as stomach content.
Besides, you are not an Eskimo (assuming..).

 

[Read-Only]

Well, I strongly urge you to do some research on all meat diets. It leads to malnutrition and eventually, if maintained, even death. I'm not kidding.
Eskimo's have a so-called all meat diet but they eat every part of the animal (parts that you surely do not eat) as well as stomach content.
Besides, you are not an Eskimo (assuming..).

A slight error there, Enmos. ANY animal an Intuit eats (with the possible exception of a baleen whale) will have nothing but meat in it's stomach and gut.

 

[Enmos]

A slight error there, Enmos. ANY animal an Intuit eats (with the possible exception of a baleen whale) will have nothing but meat in it's stomach and gut.

What about reindeer ?

 

[Read-Only]

What about reindeer ?

Yes, you're right - that IS another exception. And I'm uncertain about the number of them killed or about how MUCH volume there is in the stomach to be shared by a family or group of people. But it couldn't amount to much in comparision to the amount of meat.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Probably why carnivores eat the stomach content of the herbivores they have killed.

That is not a universal behavior for all species in the order Carnivora. Dogs/wolves and other species of genus Canis do so, but they do it to get the bacterial culture. (That's why your dog will eat stool if you feed him cheap commercial kibble loaded with preservatives that kill the culture in his very short intestine.) Still, almost all Canis-clade carnivores (as opposed to Felis-clade) are scavengers as well as carnivores. Foxes, bears, raccoons, ferrets, etc., will happily eat fruits and maybe even a bit of the same disgusting detritus that dogs eat, and that's probably how they acquire some of their vitamins. (I don't know that much about the pinnipeds.)

Nonetheless we cannot generalize the biochemistry of carnivores to our species of primate. After all, by definition the tissue of a mammal contains all of the vitamins and minerals a mammal needs to survive, assuming you eat the organs, skin, etc. Lions and hyenas and otters and skunks may have all the right enzymes to extract them, and perhaps humans don't.

ANY animal an Intuit eats (with the possible exception of a baleen whale) will have nothing but meat in it's stomach and gut.

All cetaceans are carnivores, which is amazing considering that they descended from primitive hippopotamuses and therefore have been recently reclassified as artiodactyls--with the cattle, camels, giraffes, deer, sheep, pigs, etc., most of which are industrial-grade herbivores. Baleen whales eat krill, which are teeny-weeny shrimp.

BTW, it's Inuit. Intuit is a software company.

Yes, you're right - [reindeer] IS another exception. And I'm uncertain about the number of them killed or about how MUCH volume there is in the stomach to be shared by a family or group of people. But it couldn't amount to much in comparision to the amount of meat.

The Inuit are not pastoral nomads and do not herd reindeer. You're thinking of the cousins they left behind in the north of Eurasia like the Sami ("Lapps"). Nonetheless I would imagine that some of their tribes do hunt caribou, which are merely a different, undomesticated population of the same species living in North America.

In which case, the contents of the digestive tract of any artiodactyl will be full of partially-digested food. Digesting cellulose is an arduous process that requires the assistance of billions of bacteria with the specialized chemistry to break it down and convert it to protein (i.e., more bacteria). They have a two-chambered stomach that keeps the food churning. Cattle have a four-chambered stomach, and over and above that they regurgitate their food, chew it some more, and start over.

 

[John Connellan]

Well, I strongly urge you to do some research on all meat diets. It leads to malnutrition and eventually, if maintained, even death. I'm not kidding.

Anyway, this is slightly off-topic as I said I do not eat vegetables. I did not say that my diet consists soley of meat.

I still highly doubt that eating only meat will result in death in a healthy Eskimo even if he never ate the stomach contents of the animal. I think the many carnivores in the animal kingdom show that it is quite possible to live on meat.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I really get a kick out of those who take B12 supplements because what it is telling them is that their body needs meat.

 

[Enmos]

Anyway, this is slightly off-topic as I said I do not eat vegetables. I did not say that my diet consists soley of meat.

Hmm ok, fair enough. So you do eat seeds, nuts and fruit ?

I still highly doubt that eating only meat will result in death in a healthy Eskimo even if he never ate the stomach contents of the animal. I think the many carnivores in the animal kingdom show that it is quite possible to live on meat.

Well, you are not and Eskimo nor do you eat like an Eskimo. Also, you are not any other animal but a human. And you are not a carnivore either.

 

[John Connellan]

Hmm ok, fair enough. So you do eat seeds, nuts and fruit ?

I do but probably not as much as I should either. I would say my diet consists of 75% meat

Well, you are not and Eskimo nor do you eat like an Eskimo. Also, you are not any other animal but a human. And you are not a carnivore either.

No, but the Eskimo's are Eskimo's and lions are carnivores and they seem to get on fine on a meat only diet. I just don't think it will cause death in a normal healthy individual. The body always finds a way to cope

 

[Nasor]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16441942

Vegetarian diets do not contain meat, poultry or fish; vegan diets further exclude dairy products and eggs. Vegetarian and vegan diets can vary widely, but the empirical evidence largely relates to the nutritional content and health effects of the average diet of well-educated vegetarians living in Western countries, together with some information on vegetarians in non-Western countries. In general, vegetarian diets provide relatively large amounts of cereals, pulses, nuts, fruits and vegetables. In terms of nutrients, vegetarian diets are usually rich in carbohydrates, n-6 fatty acids, dietary fibre, carotenoids, folic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E and Mg, and relatively low in protein, saturated fat, long-chain n-3 fatty acids, retinol, vitamin B(12) and Zn; vegans may have particularly low intakes of vitamin B(12) and low intakes of Ca. Cross-sectional studies of vegetarians and vegans have shown that on average they have a relatively low BMI and a low plasma cholesterol concentration; recent studies have also shown higher plasma homocysteine concentrations than in non-vegetarians. Cohort studies of vegetarians have shown a moderate reduction in mortality from IHD but little difference in other major causes of death or all-cause mortality in comparison with health-conscious non-vegetarians from the same population. Studies of cancer have not shown clear differences in cancer rates between vegetarians and non-vegetarians. More data are needed, particularly on the health of vegans and on the possible impacts on health of low intakes of long-chain n-3 fatty acids and vitamin B(12). Overall, the data suggest that the health of Western vegetarians is good and similar to that of comparable non-vegetarians.